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Old 26th March 2013, 14:50   #106
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Default re: All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done

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Originally Posted by Sommos View Post
Hi, Biraj.
A belated happy birth day for Crusoe (I missed your last post).
Wish you loads of fun with Crusoe in the coming years.

Though I ended up purchasing the MJD, but I've been following your thread from the beginning.

How do you clean your seats? Off late I'm noticing that the driver seat of my car has got some stain marks.
Thanks Sommos, whenever I calculate the amount I have spent on petrol, I keep asking myself why didn't I go for the MJD Linea and plonk a tuning kit. (hope Crusoe isn't listening )

I use Armour all leather wipes to clean the seats and then follow-up with leather polish from Formula 1. The driver seat of my car too has some wear marks but all other seats look straight out of showroom. The windows of my car are rolled up 100% of time and I drive alone for almost 80% of time. Thus, the interior is more or less spotless.
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Old 12th May 2013, 10:50   #107
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Default re: All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done

Biraj, where are you? You told me of your trip abroad, but it's been quite a while, since you posted on the forum/replied to PMs. I hope you are doing fine.
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Old 13th May 2013, 12:54   #108
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Default re: All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done

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Originally Posted by lapis_lazuli View Post
Biraj, where are you? You told me of your trip abroad, but it's been quite a while, since you posted on the forum/replied to PMs. I hope you are doing fine.
Hey Ranajay, I am back in India and shall be active on the forum soon. Crusoe is just a few KMs short of 19K mark. Will post a detailed update of the past 1K and the experience with pathetic Goodyear tyres in that post.

In the meanwhile, Crusoe was grounded for almost a month due to my erratic travel plans. The poor chap had a lot of dust accumulated on it. Gave it a nice wash and then followed it up with Muc-off Split Second Detailer Wax. It's back to its shiny best.
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Old 22nd July 2013, 21:02   #109
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Default re: All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done

Update: 20,000 KMs done

Cursoe has covered very less kms/per month for the past four months. First I was in US on a business trip and then I went on a long trip to Gujarat in Neil. Here's some detail about that trip (Did the Diu! Delhi-Ahmedabad-Diu in a Punto).

Finally, the figure of 20K reached but I couldn't click a pic as Crusoe was in service center when the figure was reached.

On Saturday the faulty bulb/connection light came on and the MID started flashing <Check left side light>. I checked all the lights but I couldn't notice any fused bulb. There were some other (seemingly minor) niggles in the car too, so I decided to take it to Oberoi Cars on Sunday.

I took my car to Oberoi cars (Noida) yesterday morning at around 10:30 AM. There wasn't much rush and the place appeared relatively (by standards of Sundays) empty. The complaints were:
  • Front and rear RHS window glasses were making noise. Rear was OK but the front one used to go down with a loud thud noise.
  • The faulty bulb/connection light
  • Glove box rattle (I have accepted it and learned to live with it)
  • Rear suspension check as the tyres had uneven wear.
  • Heaviness in clutch especially after it gets warm (driving in traffic)
  • A strange sound from somewhere in the front.

The best way to describe the strange sound is an experiment that many of us might have done during childhood.

Quote:
Materials Needed: Plastic or thin wooden ruler; tabletop.

Procedure: Place the ruler on the tabletop so that about 15 cm (6 in) extends off the table. Place one hand on top of the portion of the ruler on the table to hold the ruler firmly in place. With your other hand, push down on the other end of the ruler and let it go. Listen carefully to the sound it makes. Also, watch the ruler carefully.

Slide the ruler so that about 2 cm (1 in) more at a time on is the table and repeat. What do you hear?
Source: http://science-notebook.com/sound01.html

That's the sound that I hear from front center/left (appears left from driver's seat). This is audible mainly during parking or at slow speeds. I am ready to live with that sound but all I need is an assurance that this is not a sign of something serious waiting to happen.

As posted in the dealership thread, Mr. Gopalan (GM service) is a committed man who tries to marshal his resources well however, I regret to say that his team consists of either incompetent or disinterested mechanics.

The SA took a road test along with a QA person and after discussing their observation with Mr. Gopalan, they arrived at the decision that the pressure plate has some issues and the clutch assembly needs to be changed. Mr. Gopalan informed me that the clutch will be replaced under warranty.

They diagnosed the reason for noise as "front jumping rod". I wasn't too convinced but waited for them to do their part. They offered to drop me but I decided to stay and observe.

The work on the car started at 11 AM and it took them almost 3-4 hours to replace the clutch assembly. I saw a lot of brake/gear oil on the engine and they said it was due to bleeding of clutch. As per them it's an important process and the spray is due to it.

Finally they brought the car out for road test at 5 PM. I first checked the windows, it still made the same noise. The window specialist said it's normal noise and that completely ticked me off. There's no way anyone could have called a loud thud noise from the glass when it goes down as "Normal". Fortunately, another T-jet was there for service. I asked him, if this is normal then the other T-jet should also make the same noise so, let's go and check it. They brought the keys and the other T-jet supported my claim and made no noise. Then, the window specialist says power window assembly is faulty and needs to be changed. What on earth was he waiting for to decipher it? That guy should be sent for retraining or replaced by someone with better knowledge of how windows operate in Fiats.

After the change of power window we take the car out of the showroom. It starts making a weird noise as if two plates are rubbing against each other. This happened inside the showroom, we had not even exited their ramp. I don't know why the person who worked on my car couldn't hear it when he brought it till that point. The QA guy said the pressure plate is making the noise. I asked, isn't it a new set? I went to Mr. Gopalan again and he expressed his helplessness at the faulty clutch set being delivered to them. As per him, the new clutch set had manufacturing issues and they have to place order for another clutch set as they don't have another one in stock. I had to leave Crusoe at a service station for the first time.

Today in the morning, I called the SA and asked him about the status. He informed that they are checking if the new clutch set is faulty or was there some issue with the installation. If it is about installation, then they will install the new set properly else, they will put the old (the existing one on Crusoe) clutch back and replace it when the new part arrives (ETA 5-7 days). I categorically informed him that if you install the new clutch, don't put the old transmission rather put fresh oil and I will bear the costs. I purchased a June 2011 manufactured car in Feb 2012 so, didn't want to retain the 2 year old transmission oil especially after they drained it to their dirty container.

I get a call in around 3 pm that the car is ready and they are sending it to my home. The new clutch set was faulty so they have put the existing one back and will replace it within one week. Then the SA informs that there is a charge of INR 1000 because of the gear oil change. I asked them to put the new gear oil if they keep the new set and they put the old clutch but replace the gear oil. I just wanted my car back so, told them to send the car along with invoice. The guy accepted his mistake and said that he will ensure that the transmission oil is taken out in a clean container when the new set gets installed.

Crusoe is back at home. I took a drive the front noise is still there, the old clutch feels lighter (probably due to the new oil). Rest of the things are fine with Crusoe. I paid the money to Oberoi but I noticed that they have put the clutch replacement on invoice. I spoke with the service manager that how can they put the replacement on invoice when it has not been done in real. They said that they had to do it as the part ordered was meant for my car and they will require it to get the replacement for that. He assured me that they will change the clutch within 1 week and there won't be any issue with the replacement.

Here's a copy of the invoice.
All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done-20130722_205337.jpg

I am really confused now. The men at top (Mr Gopalan (GM) and Gulab Singh (service manager) seem honest and committed individuals but the team below is worthless. They have already put the replacement of clutch in the invoice so, I will have to go back to them. The other option is (if possible) collect the replacement clutch from them and get it replaced at another service center. The issue with second option is that I find Kashyap's team even less interested to work than Oberoi's team. At least in Oberoi, Mr. Gopalan listens and gets things done. I guess it's a leap of faith and back to Oberoi for me.
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Old 23rd July 2013, 11:59   #110
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Default re: All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biraj View Post
Update: 20,000 KMs done

The issue with second option is that I find Kashyap's team even less interested to work than Oberoi's team. At least in Oberoi, Mr. Gopalan listens and gets things done. I guess it's a leap of faith and back to Oberoi for me.
I find Oberoi much better than Kashyap. I had gone to kashyap only once and didn't get a nice experience. I service my car at oberoi since beginning. Now I have clocked more than 100,000 KM without any major trouble. Try to meet Ishendra at oberoi cars. He is quite helpful.

Last edited by car-dent : 23rd July 2013 at 12:00. Reason: Had put dots like this.... by mistake.
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Old 23rd July 2013, 19:45   #111
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Default re: All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done

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Originally Posted by car-dent View Post
Try to meet Ishendra at oberoi cars. He is quite helpful.

Car-Dent, at Noida Sec 1 or Sec 63, please?

Biraj, I am actually more pained than shocked. Mr.Gopalan and Gulab, even I agree, are actually worth talking to. I would however advise you write to FIAT as well as speak to the customer care and take a number. They are following up rather seriously these days, or at least I believe so. If you can also get Arun Rajputs number, and just have a word with him, it could be helpful as well. I am seriously thinking, if a brain decision would have been better. Almost all parts, are requiring some sort of intervention DURING the warranty period. Good. But what after? FIAT has silently jacked up spare prices by close to 200 percent, and fellow members, please correct me if I am wrong. Labour charges: don't ask me. Wiper blade change is 150 at ASS1, 225 at ASS2, 100 at ASS3 (tier 2 town).

Rear one is seperate, mind you. I wont mention names here. NOTHING is standardized. Probably this was the commitment made by FIAT to exclusive dealers and other dealers, to pave way for good operating margins, at the roughly 650/month buyers cost. What else pays for staff salaries then?

PREVENTION is better than NO CURE it seems.....drive like a pram!

I love to hear and believe even Maruti or BMW has rattles and failing power windows; is it really the point? I mean, 2-3 parts might fail or rattle as freak cases. Periodic failures/niggles in quick sequence (weeks really), over a wide variety of parts: door locks, windows, boot doors, wiper shudder, clutch slip, suspension tak, AC o ring...gimme a break...what else remains? this raises some other questions.

"No silly, but the the engine is top class.....you know" people may say.

Well, then let them sell me only the engines, and I will fit it to my sofa and travel. What the fun!

Is this a rant? Well, I own a black-sheep 1.2 myself, and enjoy it, so it probably isn't!

Last edited by lapis_lazuli : 23rd July 2013 at 20:01.
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Old 23rd July 2013, 20:49   #112
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Default re: All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done

Quote:
Originally Posted by lapis_lazuli View Post
Car-Dent, at Noida Sec 1 or Sec 63, please?
I love to hear and believe even Maruti or BMW has rattles and failing power windows; is it really the point? I mean, 2-3 parts might fail or rattle as freak cases. Periodic failures/niggles in quick sequence (weeks really), over a wide variety of parts: door locks, windows, boot doors, wiper shudder, clutch slip, suspension tak, AC o ring...gimme a break...what else remains? this raises some other questions.

"No silly, but the the engine is top class.....you know" people may say.

Well, then let them sell me only the engines, and I will fit it to my sofa and travel. What the fun!
The first expression that came to my mind after reading your post was "Shaant Gadhadhari Bheem, Shaant" Just sleep over it and I am sure your admiration for Fiat will be back to the normal level tomorrow.

I was very upset yesterday and even more when you told me that the reason for the strange noise can be a failed spot welding. I will wait to get the welding verified and then panic (i hope that situation doesn't arise).

In 18 months of ownership, the things that have been replaced in my car are:
  1. Battery
  2. Power window machine (twice)
  3. Clutch (done on invoice but yet to be done in real)

The clutch is the only point that I wished had not reached the stage of replacement. I will be honest, the clutch was beginning to get hard and they could have easily refused to change it under-warranty. They sensed a fault and proactively changed it. It's sheer bad-luck that the replacement piece was faulty. There's no denying that Fiat service needs to buckle up and perform but let's give the credit to where it's due.

Let me get all the issues with Crusoe sorted and then we will spend some time on your car (and your driving style too) and ensure that it doesn't trouble you again for at least 15-20K KMs. Disclaimer: this offer is there only because I consider you a friend and has nothing to do with my affinity towards Fiat.
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Old 23rd July 2013, 21:05   #113
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Default re: All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biraj View Post
I am sure your admiration for Fiat will be back to the normal level tomorrow.

The admiration is still there....and as of now, Oberoi has managed to make the car silent. No rattles/pops/clanks. Touchwood, and looking forward to the meet!

I sincerely hope is just another silly rattle and not spot weld issue on Crusoe. Credit is definitely due: I have mentioned elsewhere, quite a few times, you might need to revisit the workshop, but they finally resolve it. I guess sticking to one particular workshop also helps, at least, they would know the vehicle better than some random A$$. I am an optimist

Last edited by lapis_lazuli : 23rd July 2013 at 21:18.
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Old 23rd July 2013, 22:21   #114
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Default re: All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done

The sound from the front that you are talking about - is it something like two medium-hard pieces of something rubbing together - like "taka-taka-taka-taka" .. especially prominent when going over potholes etc. at very slow speeds , or while parking ?
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Old 23rd July 2013, 22:36   #115
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Default re: All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done

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Originally Posted by ZBlue View Post
- like "taka-taka-taka-taka" ..
yeah, somewhat similar

Quote:
especially prominent when going over potholes etc. at very slow speeds , or while parking ?
This part is absolutely bang on. I hear it the maximum while parking and at speeds less than 20 KMPH.

Have you faced something similar?

EDIT: Thank you so much Zblue for the reassurance. Lapis_lazuli had given me a minor heart attack by saying that the reason could be due to spot welding.

Last edited by Biraj : 23rd July 2013 at 22:55. Reason: Response to Zblue's comment below
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Old 23rd July 2013, 22:44   #116
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Default re: All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biraj View Post
yeah, somewhat similar



This part is absolutely bang on. I hear it the maximum while parking and at speeds less than 20 KMPH.

Have you faced something similar?
Yes , it is there - like you said it's nothing major but a minor irritant you wish wasn't there. i had it examined long time back at TASS in Gurgaon. It was diagnosed as some "flexible pipe". The guy showed me a section of the exhaust system towards the front - it has a pattern somewhat like this , almost cloth like -

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Old 24th July 2013, 07:10   #117
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Default re: All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done

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Originally Posted by Biraj View Post
Lapis_lazuli had given me a minor heart attack by saying that the reason could be due to spot welding.

My bad man . I thought it was the dreaded tinny vibration. But as you said, if its from behind the AC, it's probably tubes, clips or loose parts rubbing against each other.
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Old 24th July 2013, 12:39   #118
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Originally Posted by lapis_lazuli View Post

My bad man . I thought it was the dreaded tinny vibration. But as you said, if its from behind the AC, it's probably tubes, clips or loose parts rubbing against each other.
I haven't ruled out what you suspected. I will get it checked when I go for the clutch replacement.

EDIT: @Sameer - the clutch used to get hard after getting warm. Details are on the same page in post# 109

Last edited by Biraj : 24th July 2013 at 12:56. Reason: Response to Sameer's post
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Old 24th July 2013, 12:42   #119
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I haven't ruled out what you suspected. I will get it checked when I go for the clutch replacement.
Clutch replacement, so early Why??

I am sorry, if i missed it, as I haven't been through couple of last pages.
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Old 11th August 2013, 13:30   #120
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Default re: All Hail Crusoe! Fiat Linea T-Jet+ : Four years and 47,000 kms done

Update on Clutch and the weird noise.

It took 2 weeks for Oberoi motors to arrange the replacement clutch. The two weeks period had some miscommunication, escalation and assertion. I will update the dealership experience in the appropriate thread and will concentrate on Crusoe here.

Yesterday, I went to the service center and patiently waited for the SA to open the job-card. Explained all the issues to him again. He started the work immediately and assured that this time they will sort out all the issues.

Minor ones:
  • Rattle from glove box - Fixed to the best of mechanic's and glovebox's limit.
  • Squeak from rear power-window - Fixed - required some oiling
  • Boot light was loose - Fixed

Key ones:

Clutch: Replaced under warranty (details in post#109). Now it's butter smooth.

The irritating front noise(described in post# 109): This took the maximum effort and when it got diagnosed, we all (me, SA and the GM) had a hearty laugh. The best way I can describe it is the Hindi idiom (Khoda paahad nikla chuha).

They checked every possible source of the noise from AC pipes, to strut mounts to some jumping rod, then the ball-joints, the steering coloumn and even the exhaust system. Everything was perfect. Finally the SA decided to listen in the noise while knocking on the bumper. A hit towards the bottom of the bumper (part near the tyre) produced the noise. He suddenly checked the left fog-lamp and VOILA! the noise appeared. The fog lamp is held onto the bumper by two nuts and one of them had broken (don't know how maybe some under-body hit during the Kalatop trip). It was now held by just one nut so, at slow speeds or vibration it used to oscillate on the single nut and that's what produced the noise.

Replacement of the fog-lamp would have costed ~2500 so, the SA said he will join it by quickfix and it should hold. He said just in case it doesn't, then the lamp would have to be changed.

Though I will update the dealership experience in another thread, to summarise the overall experience I would say - Communication during the delay could have been much better however, I am very happy with the end-result. Cruose is back the condition it was in last year. Smooth clutch, no major noise and overtaking cars at will. Ishendar did a good job at diagnosing the noise and Mr. Gopalan tried to marshal his resources as best as possible.

Last edited by Biraj : 11th August 2013 at 13:31.
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