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Old 18th January 2013, 11:07   #286
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Default Re: Running repairs on 12th Jan 2013

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Running repairs on 12th Jan 2013
...
Reported the following problems:
1. Front windshield water-spray not working -> Some connector had come loose. No problem with motor as such. Repaired.
....
Less than a week after the repair-job, the windshield spray is not working again. Now I am upset with the service center. I had reported 6 problems, out of which the gad-gad sound while acclerating is still there, the rattle from the meter-cowl is still there and now the spray is not working again.

I am going to call the new RM who handled my job last time.

Last edited by SDP : 18th January 2013 at 11:08.
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Old 18th January 2013, 12:28   #287
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Default Re: Running repairs on 12th Jan 2013

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Less than a week after the repair-job, the windshield spray is not working again. Now I am upset with the service center. I had reported 6 problems, out of which the gad-gad sound while acclerating is still there, the rattle from the meter-cowl is still there and now the spray is not working again.

I am going to call the new RM who handled my job last time.
What is the gad-gad noise you refering to. Is it while hard acceleration in 2nd/3rd gears when around 1200-1500RPM approx. I also get some kind of noise, more kinda scratch noise like a brush when rotated inside a cylinder. But it is heard only for a few secs. One way I found to get rid of this noise the moment it is heard, is to relax the accelerator a bit and then continue acclerating. Last week when I took to the service centre to show it, it was never heard and for the last one week it was totally gone. And I thought that was it. But yesterday when the car was back from 2nd service it is back. Need to drive some kms to see if it goes off on its own.

FundaG

Last edited by fundagenie : 18th January 2013 at 12:36.
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Old 18th January 2013, 13:39   #288
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Default Re: Running repairs on 12th Jan 2013

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What is the gad-gad noise you refering to. Is it while hard acceleration in 2nd/3rd gears when around 1200-1500RPM approx. I also get some kind of noise, more kinda scratch noise like a brush when rotated inside a cylinder. But it is heard only for a few secs. One way I found to get rid of this noise the moment it is heard, is to relax the accelerator a bit and then continue acclerating. Last week when I took to the service centre to show it, it was never heard and for the last one week it was totally gone. And I thought that was it. But yesterday when the car was back from 2nd service it is back. Need to drive some kms to see if it goes off on its own.

FundaG
Its a very feeble noise that I can hear only when music is off. Its not specific to uneven roads. So I genuinely doubt it has got to do with the balancer bar. They keep on replacing the balancer bar bushes regularly every time I complain.

It does feel like "a brush when rotated inside a cylinder" as you put it. So I am not sure of it is coming from the suspension or is from the drive train. It may be from the wheels as well. The pebbles stuck in the tyre tread could have been the issue. But I have removed most of them and they are just too small for making a noise which filters into the cabin with windows rolled up.

Would show it to the service center at the time of second servicing.

Last edited by SDP : 18th January 2013 at 13:41.
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Old 19th January 2013, 09:25   #289
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Originally Posted by fundagenie View Post

What is the gad-gad noise you refering to. Is it while hard acceleration in 2nd/3rd gears when around 1200-1500RPM approx. I also get some kind of noise, more kinda scratch noise like a brush when rotated inside a cylinder. But it is heard only for a few secs. One way I found to get rid of this noise the moment it is heard, is to relax the accelerator a bit and then continue acclerating. Last week when I took to the service centre to show it, it was never heard and for the last one week it was totally gone. And I thought that was it. But yesterday when the car was back from 2nd service it is back. Need to drive some kms to see if it goes off on its own.

FundaG
Mine too had same noise, seems now that its a serious problem, as few others have also reported same problem.
They changed the timing belt and the tensioner assembly few days back to rectify it, BUT I heard it again yesterday night.
The sound comes when the engine is on load, for example on an elevated road with 4-5 adults and at rpm around 1200-1500.
Another problem that correlates is that the rpms at idle when I stop at a red light gradually comes down from 1000 to 800ish.
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Old 21st January 2013, 19:05   #290
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Default Re: The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8

SDP: Just went through you tread. Regarding your mileage, I have the following points:

1. One thing I noticed were your tyres. They seem to of higher rolling resistance than the Bridgestones based on pattern type. The more symmetric the threads are in the rolling direction, the lesser the resistance.

2. Also I suspect that your brakes are dragging. They need to checked on a high post for free rolling.

If there is a power-torque curve map anywhere for this mhawk engine, then the point were the hp and torque curves meet, that rpm would be the idle point to cruise on to extract maximum FE from the engine.

My 2 cents.
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Old 21st January 2013, 19:37   #291
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Default Re: The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8

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SDP: Just went through you tread. Regarding your mileage, I have the following points:

1. One thing I noticed were your tyres. They seem to of higher rolling resistance than the Bridgestones based on pattern type. The more symmetric the threads are in the rolling direction, the lesser the resistance.

2. Also I suspect that your brakes are dragging. They need to checked on a high post for free rolling.

If there is a power-torque curve map anywhere for this mhawk engine, then the point were the hp and torque curves meet, that rpm would be the idle point to cruise on to extract maximum FE from the engine.

My 2 cents.
Initially I had the doubt about the ACC consuming too much. But last tank-full has been without AC and the mileage is still less than I expected.

Brakes are even my next suspect. Would check it out during next visit.

Even I am searching for the power-torque curve for the mHawk engine in its XUV state of tune. Have not found it anywhere.

I currently use 1800 rpm for crusing. I upshift at 1900-2000rpm and I downshift around 1500 rpm.

One experiment that is pending for a nice early-sunday-morning drive is to up-shift as per the user's manual recommendations and see what RPM does Mahindra recommend for upshifting.
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Old 23rd January 2013, 20:41   #292
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Default Re: The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8

Duma, reached another (minor) milestone yesterday!
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I always had a doubt about the fuel-level indicator in the XUV. I believe it paints the picture 'pink' at both ends. Let me explain.

Here's a picture I clicked 1 week after resetting the trip-A (which was done at the time of filling up the tank).
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The car has closed 125kms and the fuel-level indicator has not moved even by one notch!

The XUV has a tank capacity of 70 liters and there are 10 squares/LEDs in the fuel-level indicator. So each LED should correspond to approximately 7 liters.

The Info screen was showing a mileage of 12.8kmpl till yesterday and yes, it was also reset when I filled the tank last time. The fueling was stopped at auto-cut-off.

If the car is giving 12.8kmpl and it has covered 125kms, it has consumed around 9.8 liters of diesel. With one LED corresponding to 7 liters, at least the top LED should not have been lit up.

Car manufacturers give a rosy picture when calculating the mileage as well. So if I take the indicated 12.8kmpl with a pinch of salt and say that the actual mileage is 11.5kmpl, the consumed fuel works out to be 10.8 liters. Again at least 1 (if not 2) LEDs should have gone off.

In fact, the fuel-level-indicator kept on showing me equivalent of FULL till about 145kms! So I believe it is showing a rosy picture.

Now let's look at what happens when the tank is about to get empty. When the fuel-level indicator started showing only the last 2 LEDs lit (10 days back), the DTE was showing as 65kms. Assuming that the DTE is correct, and assuming the FE as 11.5kmpl, 65kms would translate to 5.6 liters of diesel left in the tank at that point. With each LED corresponding to 7 liters, only one LED should be lit and not 2. So, I believe the fuel-level-indicator is showing an incorrect and rosy picture (claiming more than actual fuel level) at the bottom end as well.

Any views? Any other owners observed this?

Last edited by SDP : 23rd January 2013 at 20:47.
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Old 23rd January 2013, 21:16   #293
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Default Re: The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8

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Originally Posted by SDP View Post
The XUV has a tank capacity of 70 liters and there are 10 squares/LEDs in the fuel-level indicator. So each LED should correspond to approximately 7 liters.
.....
Any views? Any other owners observed this?
same thing happened with me in my wagonR. Some times a particular bar of the indicator(digital) lasts for around 100 kms while some times it reduces in around 35-40 kms. Have observed the 6th bar generally goes down after a longer distance.

The only reason I can think is that the shape of the tank is not uniform all the way and hence the area also not over a particular plane. The sensor(don't know what type is used, maybe a simple float), I think measures the height or something similar and dooes not take the shape into consideration. That might be a reason that in the manaual they write that at different inclines, the fuel level might not be shown exact.
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Old 24th January 2013, 01:18   #294
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Default Re: The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8

I think the needle is NOT progressive (descending with accuracy) in most cars. In my Swift, I have noticed that the needle moves slow till mid-way (in city it comes to mid level as you cover ~400 kms) and then it dips really quick. It comes to reserve by the time you do another ~200 kms. Similar extrapolation for highway drives too!

Edit:: Could NOT really help posting it here. This thing has always irked me! I feel so happy seeing 400 kms in city for half the tank (FE of close to 20 kmpl) , but then end up finishing the tank quickly (bringing down the FE to 15 kmpl).

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 24th January 2013 at 01:21. Reason: Added "Edit" portion
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Old 24th January 2013, 02:28   #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDP
In fact, the fuel-level-indicator kept on showing me equivalent of FULL till about 145kms! So I believe it is showing a rosy picture.


Any views? Any other owners observed this?
First of all there are a lot of assumptions in your calculations. The first one being that all 10 LEDs are equal. The top most LED can't go over the top if you overfill b a few Ltrs. Secondly the last indicator blinks and it's a reserve it could indicate more Lts to be on a safer side, no?

So, the 145KM that it went on first LED could be because the tank was overfilled by a few Ltrs. Secondly I have driven my car( not suggested) in a situation when DTE was zero and my drive to the nearest bunk was around 25 KM. There was not even a blinking LED when i reached there.
There's a reserve and margin of error always factored into while calibrating the mileage and fuel indication, because exact "tankful" in Ltrs cant be same each time, for each person, at any of the petrol pumps.
Let me add that I saw the reading of ECM, it reads in 0.1 variance (that is per 100 ml). So the sensors are correct but in daily use other variables are not.
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Old 24th January 2013, 08:12   #296
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Default Re: The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8

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..Edit:: Could NOT really help posting it here. This thing has always irked me! I feel so happy seeing 400 kms in city for half the tank (FE of close to 20 kmpl) , but then end up finishing the tank quickly (bringing down the FE to 15 kmpl).
This is precisely what I am talking about. I feel like being lied to and that's not a pleasant feeling. If it is not even decently accurate, what's the point providing it?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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First of all there are a lot of assumptions in your calculations. The first one being that all 10 LEDs are equal. The top most LED can't go over the top if you overfill b a few Ltrs. Secondly the last indicator blinks and it's a reserve it could indicate more Lts to be on a safer side, no?

So, the 145KM that it went on first LED could be because the tank was overfilled by a few Ltrs. ...

Let me add that I saw the reading of ECM, it reads in 0.1 variance (that is per 100 ml). So the sensors are correct but in daily use other variables are not.
Rohit, I am not claiming the calculations to be accurate. All I am saying is that the fuel-level-indicator's error margin is HUGE.

I did stop fueling at the auto-cut-off. So I doubt if the tank was overfilled.

During the analog needle days, I could live with the non-linear fuel-level-indicator. In the digital-age, using a non-linear scale is just laziness (or lack of skills) on the part of the designers (at best) OR a deliberate attempt to mislead the customer (at worst).

Quote:
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... Secondly I have driven my car( not suggested) in a situation when DTE was zero and my drive to the nearest bunk was around 25 KM. There was not even a blinking LED when i reached there.
There's a reserve and margin of error always factored into while calibrating the mileage and fuel indication, because exact "tankful" in Ltrs cant be same each time, for each person, at any of the petrol pumps.
Let me add that I saw the reading of ECM, it reads in 0.1 variance (that is per 100 ml). So the sensors are correct but in daily use other variables are not.
Your and Debuda's experience of driving when DTE was showing zero, actually throws light on another aspect. Is the XUV's tank capacity really 70 liters?
The example I have given where my car was showing 65KMs as DTE and as per your experience I can drive another 20-25kms even after zero DTE, I would say the car had at least 7 liters in the tank. I filled up till auto-cut-off and I paid for additional 68 liters. So looks like the tank can take 75 liters even when not overfilled.

Last edited by SDP : 24th January 2013 at 08:30.
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Old 24th January 2013, 08:37   #297
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Default Re: The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
I think the needle is NOT progressive (descending with accuracy) in most cars. In my Swift, I have noticed that the needle moves slow till mid-way (in city it comes to mid level as you cover ~400 kms) and then it dips really quick. It comes to reserve by the time you do another ~200 kms. Similar extrapolation for highway drives too!

Edit:: Could NOT really help posting it here. This thing has always irked me! I feel so happy seeing 400 kms in city for half the tank (FE of close to 20 kmpl) , but then end up finishing the tank quickly (bringing down the FE to 15 kmpl).
Dear SDP,

Same is the case with my swift D. Over a period of time you will get to know the actual FE of your car and based on the amount of fuel you filled last time, we calculate the DTE in our minds.

On a related note, I don't like the electronic display for FUEL and HEAT indicators. I prefer the old school needles and gauges.
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Old 24th January 2013, 08:53   #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDP
This is precisely what I am talking about. I feel like being lied to and that's not a pleasant feeling. If it is not even decently accurate, what's the point providing it?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rohit, I am not claiming the calculations to be accurate. All I am saying is that the fuel-level-indicator's error margin is HUGE.

I did stop fueling at the auto-cut-off. So I doubt if the tank was overfilled.

During the analog needle days, I could live with the non-linear fuel-level-indicator. In the digital-age, using a non-linear scale is just laziness (or lack of skills) on the part of the designers (at best) OR a deliberate attempt to mislead the customer (at worst).

Your and Debuda's experience of driving when DTE was showing zero, actually throws light on another aspect. Is the XUV's tank capacity really 70 liters?
The example I have given where my car was showing 65KMs as DTE and as per your experience I can drive another 20-25kms even after zero DTE, I would say the car had at least 7 liters in the tank. I filled up till auto-cut-off and it was 68 liters. So looks like the tank can take 75 liters even when not overfilled.
Yes, I remember at least two instances when I have tankfull'ed 72 Ltrs. It's quite normal. The capacity of the tank indicates when it's detached, there's fuel in the fuel lines too.
So the DTE or the indicator in most cars are calibrated with positive bias. Just imagine a situation when DTE shows 15KM, but car stops because of empty tank.
Personally I rarely used DTE for any reference so I can't comment on its accuracy. My comments are only based on my experience with the fuel indicator and yes the topmost LED takes time to go

Last edited by rohitbagai : 24th January 2013 at 09:02.
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Old 29th January 2013, 11:54   #299
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Default Re: The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8

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FE Update

Here's the latest after tanking up today morning:
Attachment 1038346

...
3. I have been watching my driving style more carefully and up-shifting closer to 1800-1900 rpm. Shifting to 3rd (from 2nd) at 2000rpm. Never driven at 110+ during last 6 weeks. Gradual acceleration and braking. AC was not used at all. Kept a constant eye on the FE shown in the infotainment system, resetting it regularly. The tyre-pressure was unintentionally kept at 38psi. The ride was harsh and quite bouncy. But did not change the pressure as I wanted to get concrete FE number for city-driving without changing too many parameters.

4. With all the caution taken, I was expecting the city mileage to be between 12.5 to 13.

5. A bit disappointed to get 11.54 kmpl after all of this. What this means is that, if I use AC (which I have to) and if I lower the tyre-pressure to 32 and 30 psi (again, which I have to), the city mileage is going to be worse than 11.5.

6. Have reported FE concerns to Mahindra A.S.S. over the weekend. They have cleaned the air filter and flashed the system. Will keep a tab on the FE and update. I will lower the tyre-pressure to the recommended 32 and 30psi for this cycle, but would avoid AC usage. Let's see.
Another FE update:

As mentioned earlier, I had expressed a concern about the 11.54kmpl that I got during the month of Dec and the dismal mileage of 12.xx on the 2800km Gujarat trip. The 11.54kmpl number was with 38psi tyre-pressure, 0% AC usage and 100% city usage (office commute). The service center had cleaned up the air-filter and flashed the system in response to my low FE concern.

I wanted to check if the air-filter cleaning and system-flashing had any real effect on FE. To ensure that the comparison is fair, I retained the other parameters unchanged. So 38psi tyre-pressure for last 2 weeks, 0% AC usage and 100% city usage (office commute only). Did not even use the car for visiting the Parx Supercar show in South Mumbai, as it would have changed the driving pattern and altered the numbers.

Filled up today morning. The tank took 21.42 liters and its been 263kms since last top-up. This works out to be 12.24kmpl. Even after adjusting for half a liter overfill in the previous tank-fill, it would be 12.00kmpl.

So looks like the air-filter cleaning and system-flashing has resulted in +0.5kmpl impact.

The infotainment system showed an avergae FE of 12.8kmpl. So looks like the general perception that the displayed FE is about 1kmpl more than actual is valid.

-------------------- What next? ----------------------
250kms is about 1/3rd of the full-tank range. I believe its a decent sized sample.

So I will take one more snapshot of the FE 2 weeks from now after another 250 odd kms. Going to reset the tyre-pressure today to 32 and 30 PSI as recommended by M&M. Let's see how the next experiment pans out.

Last edited by SDP : 29th January 2013 at 11:59.
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Old 29th January 2013, 12:11   #300
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Default Re: The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8

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Filled up today morning. The tank took 21.42 liters and its been 263kms since last top-up. This works out to be 12.24kmpl. Even after adjusting for half a liter overfill in the previous tank-fill, it would be 12.00kmpl.

So looks like the air-filter cleaning and system-flashing has resulted in +0.5kmpl impact.
Hi SDP, its good that you are doing all these FE tests & updating us on the results. However I would suggest don't get too much bogged down by the FE & enjoy your ride. A 0.5 to 1.0 kmpl FE variations here & there is not going to make much of a difference. Driving in city's stop-go traffic, then short trips within the city, takes a heavy toll on the FE.

The XUV has so many other good attributes, which you can harp on & enjoy. It is a highway scorcher, nothing else in that segment can come close. So try to hit the highway more often & you will forget all that is worrisome @ the XUV (just my 2 cents).
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