Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Team-BHP Reviews > Long-Term Ownership Reviews


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 28th June 2013, 14:11   #421
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Chennai
Posts: 234
Thanked: 284 Times
Default Re: The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDP View Post
If the sensor-wires have been sheared off due to coming in contact with some moving part and not because of a rat issue, there is a case for the damage being covered under warranty.
SDP, could you also post pic of the location of the sensors, along with the sensor wires that got damaged. Would be interested to see if this is a structural/design issue or more of an environmental issue.
Mudhalaipatti is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 28th June 2013, 14:15   #422
SDP
Team-BHP Support
 
SDP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,554
Thanked: 6,953 Times
Default Re: The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudhalaipatti View Post
SDP, could you also post pic of the location of the sensors, along with the sensor wires that got damaged. Would be interested to see if this is a structural/design issue or more of an environmental issue.
Being a working day (and having faith in the driver that came last time), I allowed the vehicle to be picked up from home. So I am not very sure about the exact location of the sensors. Even I have a doubt about this being a design/material issue. Just imagine, a cheetah being brought down to its knees by a rat, just because of unshielded wires in the wheel-well!
SDP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th June 2013, 14:50   #423
Senior - BHPian
 
Maverick5490's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Thane
Posts: 1,242
Thanked: 565 Times
Default Re: Running repairs 26th June 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDP View Post
Running repairs 26th June 2013

FLH wheel speed sensor assembly (2 pieces) -> 2,226 Rs
Wheel speed sensor R&R labour -> 157 Rs
Vehicle diagnostic by special tools -> 975 Rs

Any opinions? Do you think I am being taken for a ride OR is this normal?
Hi SDP,

Being charged for diagnosis is common these days due to the high investment costs in the diagnostic tools. If the job is under warranty, the dealer charges back to the manufacturer. Also need to consider the fact that the technicians need to be trained on it. Brands like BMW charge upwards of Rs.2000 just for a scan.

It is advisable to have the vehicle diagnosed for such defects as there could be multiple reasons for the DTC's, it also shows if there are any hidden DTC's present but which do not affect the vehicle's running.

From your description of the drive it seems like the Sensor was damaged due to rubbing against something, else the warnings would have come immediately once you left home. Do post the pics of the same.

Also why were two sensors replaced? Highly impropbable that a rat would chew the Wheel sensors on either wheels!

Here is a schematic of the location of the sensor.
Attached Images
 
Maverick5490 is offline   (5) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 28th June 2013, 15:01   #424
SDP
Team-BHP Support
 
SDP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,554
Thanked: 6,953 Times
Default Re: Running repairs 26th June 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick5490 View Post
Hi SDP,

Being charged for diagnosis is common these days due to the high investment costs in the diagnostic tools. If the job is under warranty, the dealer charges back to the manufacturer. Also need to consider the fact that the technicians need to be trained on it. Brands like BMW charge upwards of Rs.2000 just for a scan.

It is advisable to have the vehicle diagnosed for such defects as there could be multiple reasons for the DTC's, it also shows if there are any hidden DTC's present but which do not affect the vehicle's running.
....
Here is a schematic of the location of the sensor.
Maverick5490, thanks for the detailed information and the diagram.

Quote:
From your description of the drive it seems like the Sensor was damaged due to rubbing against something, else the warnings would have come immediately once you left home. ...

Also why were two sensors replaced? Highly impropbable that a rat would chew the Wheel sensors on either wheels!
Exactly!

These 2 are brilliant points and I was actually thinking about drafting my mail to customer-care around exactly the same points!

Not very sure, why the service center didn't do this job under warranty. If a job is done under warranty OR charged to the customer, the service center does get paid for the job in either case. So can't think of any logical reason for the service-center to do a job under warranty.

Last edited by SDP : 28th June 2013 at 15:04.
SDP is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 28th June 2013, 22:37   #425
BHPian
 
debuda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 406
Thanked: 1,294 Times
Default Re: Running repairs 26th June 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDP View Post
Running repairs 26th June 2013
FLH wheel speed sensor assembly (2 pieces) -> 2,226 Rs
Wheel speed sensor R&R labour -> 157 Rs
Vehicle diagnostic by special tools -> 975 Rs

Any opinions? Do you think I am being taken for a ride OR is this normal?
IMHO, charging Rs 975 for diagnostics is not correct. I have never been charged for such a thing either by Maruti or Mahindra. As far as BMW, Merc, Audi, etc., are concerned, they may have a different pricing policy for such diagnostics but as far as I know Indian car makers usually don't charge separately for using a diagnostic tool.
debuda is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2013, 20:56   #426
SDP
Team-BHP Support
 
SDP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,554
Thanked: 6,953 Times
Default Re: The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8

Thanks everyone for the expert comments.

Here are detailed pics of the damaged speed-sensor assemblies.
You can click on the images for better resolution images.

The 2 sensor-assemblies returned by the service-center. Red rectangles mark the damaged areas.
The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8-dsc_1413.jpg

Cut on the first part. Looks like from friction rather than a rat bite.
The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8-dsc_1402.jpg

Cut on the second part.
The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8-dsc_1406.jpg

Side by side.
The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8-dsc_1411.jpg

A closeup. Isn't it interesting that sensor assemblies on BOTH front wheels got chewed by rats at approximately the same position on the same night?
The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8-dsc_1412.jpg

The part number.
The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8-dsc_1416.jpg

A picture of the wheel-well showing the new sensor assembly.
The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8-dsc_1417.jpg

My conclusion: Just too much of a coincidence that speed-sensor assemblies in BOTH wheel-wells got chewed by rats on the SAME night and they chewed at the EXACT SAME spot on both wires. I am going to write to customer-care with some of these photos. The cuts also look too clean for a rat-bite. It looks more like the wires have rubbed againsts something or came in contact with something sharp.

Please let me know your opinions.

Last edited by SDP : 29th June 2013 at 21:10.
SDP is offline   (8) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2013, 21:24   #427
Team-BHP Support
 
.anshuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Good-Gaon
Posts: 7,558
Thanked: 8,046 Times
Default Re: The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8

Looking at the wires, they seem to have been rubbing with something, this clearly is not a case of rat bite but another design flaw. Please take up the case with Mahindra customer care/ Regional office, i would never have paid for this job.
.anshuman is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2013, 21:53   #428
BHPian
 
EagleEye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 378
Thanked: 266 Times
Default Re: The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDP View Post
My conclusion: Just too much of a coincidence that speed-sensor assemblies in BOTH wheel-wells got chewed by rats on the SAME night and they chewed at the EXACT SAME spot on both wires. I am going to write to customer-care with some of these photos. The cuts also look too clean for a rat-bite. It looks more like the wires have rubbed againsts something or came in contact with something sharp.

Please let me know your opinions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Looking at the wires, they seem to have been rubbing with something, this clearly is not a case of rat bite but another design flaw. Please take up the case with Mahindra customer care/ Regional office, i would never have paid for this job.
Agree. From the looks of it, it seems that the wires could have been damaged by something on the road. Maybe you scraped a speed bump badly?
Often these wires are simply hanging below the car without a proper casing. At least that's the case with my car.
EagleEye is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2013, 22:29   #429
BHPian
 
anandtheleo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 330
Thanked: 164 Times
Default

Definitely not rat bite, i beleive you should raise this with Mahindra for sure. Do mark a cc to Sanjoy Gupta.

I am sure glad that my fellow XUV owners are a tenacious lot
anandtheleo is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2013, 22:34   #430
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: KL-CHN-BLR
Posts: 220
Thanked: 83 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandtheleo View Post
Definitely not rat bite, i beleive you should raise this with Mahindra for sure.
Absolutely agree - unless the rats were military trained!! Keep us updated on the outcome.
aajohn is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 30th June 2013, 15:38   #431
SDP
Team-BHP Support
 
SDP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,554
Thanked: 6,953 Times
Default Re: The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8

Thank you gentlemen for your views which are exactly inline with what I was thinking.

Yesterday I posted a picture of the wheel-well showing the speed-sensor assembly partially. Today morning I put on my C.S.I. cap and decided to dig deeper. Jacked up the front left wheel, turned the steering to extreme right and got under the car with my D90 in hand. Here are my detailed observations and views.

Here's a pic of the speed-sensor assemblies from yesterday on which I have marked 5 points A-B-C-D-E.
The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8-07-dsc_1413.jpg

The point A is the highest point in the wheel-well, where another connector takes the signal to some ECU under the hood. Point A has a sort of a clip which attaches the sensor-assembly to the car's body.
The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8-08-dsc_1424.jpg

Moving downwards, point-B is a rubber-part with a groove. This again attaches to the car's body. There is a U shaped clip on the body-wall where you have to press the rubber-part's goove. Point-C is similar, the difference being it attaches to a point towards the upper portion of the shock-absorber. Please note the rubber sleeve between points B and C, apparently provided to protect the wire from rubbing against the shock-absorber.
The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8-09-dsc_1426.jpg

The wire goes further down. Point D is a plastic clip that attaches to the lower portion of the shock-absorber. The wire continues further down and towards the wheel and ends behind the brake-disc.
The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8-10-dsc_1419.jpg

That's the point-E - the end point of the speed-sensor assembly - which is indirectly attached to the wheel from behind the brake-disc. It uses a bolt to connect the point E to the portion behind the brake-disc.
The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8-11-dsc_1428.jpg

A closer look at point-E
The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8-12-dsc_1432.jpg

A closer look at points B & C and the U-shaped clips for holding the assembly at points B & C.
The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8-13-dsc_1422.jpg

A clearer picture of point-D.
The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8-14-dsc_1431.jpg

Now I had the big picture about the speed-sensor assembly, where it is located and at how many points it is attached to the frame. I looked at the damaged sensor assembly and realized that the damage is in the section between point C and D. Now the question was - what exactly went wrong?

Zen and the art of motorcyle maintenance has one beautiful statement - "..just stare at the machine. There’s nothing wrong with that. Just live with it for a while. Watch it the way you watch a line when fishing and before long, as sure as you live, you’ll get a little nibble, a little fact asking in a timid, humble way if you’re interested in it. "

I took a lot of pictures, came out, looked at the pictures, went down there again, took more pictures and in general spent a good time oberseving. Checked the slack in the wire between points C and D. Didn't seem excessive. No part of that section is touching anything or rubbing against anything.

Next line of thought: May be Mahindra's redesigned the speed-sensor assembly and may be the new one (installed in my car) is shorter and has less slack. Picked up the old damaged sensor assembly and traced it against the new one. It is of the same length. The lengths of various sections between two points also matched. So, no new design.

Next line of thought: Next line of thought: May be the assembly came loose at any one or more of the 5 attaching points. Removed the point-C from the U-shaped clip and BINGO! Now with the wire clamped at point B & D, the slack in the wire was more and it was touching the inner side of the tyre at the exact same spot where the wires of the previous sensors were damaged! Tried to find some evidence supporting my theory and BINGO again! On the inner side of the tyre, although there is no damage, there are signs of something rubbing. Look at the lettering in the following snap. The lower portion of the letters is clean. That means something was rubbing against it!
The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8-15-dsc_1428-copy.jpg

So, ladies and gentleman, here's the culprit. Here's the point-C again.
The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8-16-dsc_1447.jpg

Looks like the assembly came off at this point OR may be it was not connected correctly when the vehicle went for service/repairs last time. The loose wire rubbed against the tyre and eventually got sheared causing the ABS+ESP malfunction.

One mystery solved!

----------------------------------------------------------------------
BTW, its Duma's b'day today! It was exactly one year back, I got the delivery.

Dear Duma, you have got some lousy nurses and doctors at the clinic. Sorry about that! Hope you are at least happy with your owner!

----------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT: The thread has crossed 1 lakh views this week! Thank you everyone for being part of the journey and helping me with a lot of questions and doubts.

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 1st July 2013 at 07:43. Reason: typo correction
SDP is offline   (22) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 30th June 2013, 16:02   #432
BHPian
 
carzone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 567
Thanked: 256 Times
Default Re: The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8

Dude, that was a complete postmortem to the problem in your DUMA!
Hats off! Spending a lazy Sunday morning beneath the car is something a true petrolhead can do.

One question, how are you going to make the service guys believe that it was not a rat-cut. I doubt they would be taking your say so easily. You going to pursue this further?

And yeah! Happie Birhtday Duma!

Quote:
EDIT: The thread has crossed 1 lakh views this week! Thank you everyone for being part of the journey and helping me with a lot of questions and doubts.
Thank you as well for answering all these doubts and questions to the full of our satisfaction! You deserved it!

Last edited by carzone : 30th June 2013 at 16:04.
carzone is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 30th June 2013, 16:13   #433
SDP
Team-BHP Support
 
SDP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,554
Thanked: 6,953 Times
Default Re: The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8

Quote:
Originally Posted by carzone View Post
Dude, that was a complete postmortem to the problem in your DUMA!
Hats off! Spending a lazy Sunday morning beneath the car is something a true petrolhead can do.

One question, how are you going to make the service guys believe that it was not a rat-cut. I doubt they would be taking your say so easily. You going to pursue this further?

And yeah! Happie Birhtday Duma!



Thank you as well for answering all these doubts and questions to the full of our satisfaction! You deserved it!

Hey, thanks buddy!

Have wrote a mail to the customer-care-area-manager yesterday night. Sent him 3 spaps of the clean cut wires. Have asked for a full refund for the repair job as it should have been covered under warranty. I am pretty sure that I have a case. Would go the Customer-care VP if needed. I don't give up easily.
SDP is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 30th June 2013, 16:14   #434
BHPian
 
EagleEye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 378
Thanked: 266 Times
Default Re: The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8

Wow, SDP.. I've never seen anyone analyzing it like that!
Back when I had my Figo the airbag sign came on, and when I took it to the A.S.S. they said it was rat bite. But then after some inspection they themselves admitted that it was a failure of the cable, and replaced it under warranty.

So if it was the clip holding the wires that came undone, then they would have seen it when you took the car to the workshop. They would have definitely come to know that it wasn't rat bite. And in spite of that they charged you for the repairs.

Definitely unethical behavior on their part!
EagleEye is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 30th June 2013, 17:01   #435
SDP
Team-BHP Support
 
SDP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,554
Thanked: 6,953 Times
Default Re: The "Duma" comes home - Our Tuscan Red Mahindra XUV 5OO W8

Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleEye View Post
Wow, SDP.. I've never seen anyone analyzing it like that!
Back when I had my Figo the airbag sign came on, and when I took it to the A.S.S. they said it was rat bite. But then after some inspection they themselves admitted that it was a failure of the cable, and replaced it under warranty.

So if it was the clip holding the wires that came undone, then they would have seen it when you took the car to the workshop. They would have definitely come to know that it wasn't rat bite. And in spite of that they charged you for the repairs.

Definitely unethical behavior on their part!
Thanks EagleEye! The service-center guys definitely know what was the real cause of the problem and also know that they themselves are responsible for it (the wires that came undone from the clips) as they are the only ones who work on my car.

Definitely unethical behaviour. That's the reason why I have escalated directly to customer-care and have not bothered to take up the matter with the service-center folks.
SDP is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"Cayenne" we "XC-eed" in our "Endeavour" to "Safari"? Taking powerful metal off-road SS-Traveller 4x4 Excursions 55 10th November 2016 22:56
Torque Day - Driving the Mahindra XUV 5OO on the Buddh International Circuit n_aditya Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 38 30th January 2013 09:50


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 06:29.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks