40000 km = 80000 km. 2007 Verna CRDi. Got cheated, Now sold.

[sarthakgupta]

Small background: My labs are located at about 20 kms from home (Labs are about 12 kms away from the city border) but the public transport system is non-existent near my lab area. (As such, public transport is almost non-existent in Indore city itself. According to some Govt. statistics, private vehicle ownership is about 80% in Indore). Most employees stay within the campus. Some, who stay in the city, manage with their own vehicles. A very small fraction of those staying outside have employed a chartered bus which does its last trip at 5:30 P.M. everyday.

December 2010,
Finished lab work at about 6 pm. Started for home, reached home at 10 pm (had to walk 5 kms to the nearest metre guage line railway station. Wait for about an hour for the train. Train takes about an hour to reach Indore Main station, from there about 30 - 45 minutes to home) Like so many days, again, no energy left for studying (At that time I was studying part time for my M.Tech along with work - M.Tech program being jointly conducted by my labs along with IIT Bombay). With quaterly review date fast approaching, I decided I have to solve my commuting problem if I wish to continue with my course.

With no history of car ownership at home (Dad uses an office provided Innova). I had absolutely no idea about cars. All of them used to look as same. As with all newbies, had this idea ingrained into mind that Marutis are fuel efficient and cheap to service and maintain (Trust me - I used to ask people about what is the difference between service and maintenance). Went to a few Maruti and Hyundai showrooms to enquire about their entry level models.

January 2011,
When you are a total newbie, you don't even know what exactly are your requirements and needs. Dad suggested to go for a used car, so as to learn and get some experience and then later on go for a new car that will be suitable. Liked the idea and visited some used car dealerships. It was a more baffling experience w.r.t. selecting a new car. Contacted my uncle who runs few petrol pumps in other districts of M.P. and is a local politico - he said to find good used cars for me. He was adamant that I get a diesel - citing rising petrol costs. Within a week, he found a 2007 Verna CRDi in khandwa city which had done about 40,000 kms for an asking price of Rs. 5 lakhs. He got the car checked by one of his trusted mechanics who gave a clean chit to car. With some of my own savings and a little monetary help from Dad, purchased that car and completed all transfer related formalities in next 10 days.

February 2011 - May 2011,
Pure bliss. Uncle sent me his driver for about 15 days to get my hands clear on this car. The car drastically cut down my commute time - now I could focus on my lab work as well as M.Tech studies. At this time around I got intoduced to Team-BHP and read many ownership reports regarding Verna and Accent Diesel (I thought they had the same 1.5 CRDi engine). The car ran perfectly and completed 6000 kms with me. It was time for its first service with me.

June 2011,
Shock of my life. During service, I asked the SA to provide me previous records of service of this car. What followed was a list of shocks:

• The last service was done at about 73000 kms in August 2010. This translated to car being at about 80,000 kms when I purchased it in January 2011.
• The car had met with accidents - not one but three, at 500 kms, 10,000 kms and 27000 kms.
• No record for about service history for about 20,000 kms from 50,000 kms to 73,000 kms.

Contacted the owner but he flatly refused any tampering with the meter and put down the phone.

Received a lot of scolds from elders for choosing a used car and ridicules from others. Many recommended me to sell the car right away and get a new one.

However I decided not to panic and contacted the SA for doing a quick evaluation of the car and informing me about the current codition of the vehicle and expected life before any critical failure (By now I had read many reports on T-BHP about Accent CRDi failures at about 1 Lakh kms - with my running I was fast nearing that count. SA told me that it is difficult to say (basically not bothered at all).

It was a difficult decision then - to sell the car right now or continue with it. Finally, I decided to continue with it since due to my studies I couldn't spare the time required to sell the car and get a new car (with possible wait times involved) and subsequent loss of mobility.

LESSON: A lot of lessons. I will summarise them by recommending everybody to read T-BHP articles on buying used and new cars thoroughly.

July 2011 - Feb 2012,
Car continued to soldier on. I used to get only those services done which were strictly required. I completed requirements of my M.Tech by end of Feb. 2012 and immediately after faced the first main failure in car.

March 2012,
Car had developed crunching sounds while releasing clutch. I decided to get it checked. However, as I was on my way to service centre, the clutch pedal gave way completely (it remained pressed), there were grinding and gnashing sound accomanied with a burning metallic smell. I switched of the engine and was stranded on the road.

Fearing huge bill, I contacted a nearby small garage whose mechanic (correctly) identified as clutch release bearing failure. He offered to source parts and get it corrected within 2 days with approx. bill of Rs 5000. I told him to go ahead.

After two days, I went to him and found my car in totally opened condition and the mechanic expressed his inability to help me.

LESSON: Donot trust Road Side Mechanics for critical Jobs.

Contacted Hyundai RSA which was extremely frustating since they only made me call one number after another with each one telling me to call the next number. The person on the final number told me that he is in Chennai and told me to call the dealership directly.

Then I called my politico uncle and he used some of his contacts to arrange a towing vehicle from the dealership which came eventually and towed away my car.

Now, I opened up a big job cart with the dealership in which following jobs were performed along with their bills:

• Clutch overhaul - Clutch plate, pressure plate and release bearing and associated labour- Rs. 12,000
• Suspension overhaul - parts and labour - Rs. 16,000
• Paid service - Engine oil; Oil, air and fuel filter with labour - Rs. 4000
• New bumpers - Rs. 5500
• A/C service - level 4 - Rs 3000

I decided to get all these jobs done since I had decided to keep this car with me.

April 2012 - June 2012,
Car went smoothly. I thought all is over now. However, I was wrong.

July 2012,
Car began to smoke heavily with no boost at all. Mileage dropped drastically from previous levels of about 17 - 18 kmpl to 11 - 12 kmpl. By now had read enough articles on Team-BHP to deduce it to be a Turbo failure. Diagnosed at service centre as a Turbo failure (they connected some device and found that there was almost no boost). Cost for a new Turbo - about Rs. 65,000.

Decided to sell the car.

August 2012,
Got it evaluated at few places - all of them immediately recoganised signs of accidents and me being second owner quoted prices in range of 2 lakhs to 3.11 lakhs max. Decided against selling it to a private buyer since I won't be able to milk any unsuspecting buyer by not telling him all the issues, like I got milked.

Sold it to a dealer for 3.11 lakhs.

For my next car, I have finalised Honda City - After all this fiasco, I wish to have complete peace of mind. I hope I have made the right choice.

Thanks for reading

Mods: Even though I have kept the car only for 20 months, but I am placing this car in long term ownership section since the car has done near about 1 Lakh kms.

[libranof1987]

Hey,

I bet that is an ownership you wouldn't be especially proud of.

I don't get one thing though - how did the mechanic who did the first evaluation not figure out the accidented past - leave alone the 40k kms difference?! It just surprises me especially because when you were out to sell the car, you mentioned that people could figure out that the car had been thru' accidents.

Anyway, what's gone is gone - glad you've learnt so much!

So, is the City pre-worshipped or the '12 City?

Have a wonderful ownership period on that one!

[rakirank]

Thanks for putting down your entire experience for the benefit of others.

Given the clamor for diesel cars it is easy for buyers to oversee certain aspects when they find what appears to be the best buy.

Hope your experience will get others to be more cautious.

All the very best with your Honda City. Hope you have many safe miles which are trouble free.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by sarthakgupta

My labs are located at about 20 kms from home

This means your monthly commute, at the minimum is 20X2 = 40X30 = 1200kms.

Originally Posted by sarthakgupta

For my next car, I have finalised Honda City - After all this fiasco, I wish to have complete peace of mind. I hope I have made the right choice.

While the City is a trouble free car, I would not buy a petrol car for that kind of usage every month. I understand your nervousness about buying a diesel car after all you ve been through but a new or a clean pre owned diesel car is what you should be looking at IMO.

If you buy a new car, say the Swift diesel, you will be extremely happy for the next 4-5 years and if you buy a good pre owned car like a low mileage Figo or a Dzire, you will still be happy. Be patient and take a calculated decision.

[blackbeast]

Originally Posted by sarthakgupta

He got the car checked by one of his trusted mechanics who gave a clean chit to car

This is perhaps your first lesson. Why would you go for a mechanic when you have hyundai service guys do this at a free of cost ?

Originally Posted by n.devdath

This means your monthly commute, at the minimum is 20X2 = 40X30 = 1200kms.

If you buy a new car, say the Swift diesel, you will be extremely happy for the next 4-5 years and if you buy a good pre owned car like a low mileage Figo or a Dzire, you will still be happy. Be patient and take a calculated decision.

+1 . listen to dev and don't let your past experience influence your buying decision. I picked up a punto an year ago without even looking at the car. A fellow bhpian test drove it and and a few calls to check service history was all it took to have the car right at the airport. If you liked verna you may pick up a cleaner piece or a brand new. There are many happy people with it on the forum. since you have a budget for city, look at sx4 diesel as well.

clutch is prone to failures in diesels. I have seen turbo failures in swift as well. This should not deter you from diesels.Now I'm looking to buy an used petrol but it suits my criteria. I suggest to read petrol v diesel thread on the forum. Despite all the hassles, you could sell it for 3+ Lakhs. Its another lesson. Diesel = resale value.

[nishantbhatia84]

Hi, I can relate to your experience of getting fleeced when buying a used car, even after getting it inspected & test driven by a mechanic!
When I purchased my 2002 Zen Lxi in 2007, I thought it was a very good car as it had just done 30k kms on the odo and the overall condition was excellent.
However, neither me nor my mechanic were able to identify the following:
1. The tyre shape had gone oval, possibly due to the car being unused for a long time. This resulted in the car wobbling after a few days, and subsequently i had to spend 12k on changing all 4 tyres!
2. The ac seemed to work fine during testing, but didn't seem to cool effectively just after a few weeks! Cost to fix: 3k
3. There was no noise from the suspension during the test, but in a few days the front suspension started making some noise, got it checked & fixed, cost: 4k

As you can see, I bought a car which was checked & inspected by a mechanic, however, even he failed to identify crucial flaws! The result, I ended up paying almost 20k more as (indirect) purchase cost of the car!
After this incident I had decided that my next car will have to be a brand new car, & that i shall buy another car when, and if i can afford a brand new vehicle!

[Harbir]

Virtually every used car I have looked at in the last year (and I have looked at a huge number) showed evidence of odometer fraud. Near the shop where I usually buy meat is a shop that does "meter repair" but is in fact in the business of odometer rollback, and no car is too sophisticated to have the odo reset by these guys.

This kind of odo fraud is happening with new cars as well. 4 times in the last year I ran into test drive units that had their odometers disconnected. These dealers will turn around and sell the cars as new when all the TDing is done.

I feel sick to my stomach that this lack of honesty and decency is the norm in our country, that one must assume that an indian will cheat you without shame if he can, if one is to stay safe. The lesson is that i matters involving money, don't trust any Indian not known very well to you personally.

Anyway, we bought 3 new cars in the last 1 year (i10 Automatic, A6 3.0T, Pajero SFX) because the search for used cars in each case only swamped us with fraud and deceit.

In my opinion, buying a used car on the open market in India is a great folly.

[gopinathann]

Note from Mod: There are several spelling & grammatical errors in your posts. This negatively affects the board experience for other readers.

Kindly ensure that you proof-read your posts prior to submission. Also, it would be a good idea to use spell-checkers.

[mjothi]

I understand the situation & shock you would have been when you came to know about the facts. but I would say, you have learned and by posting it here, educated many others as well. Hats off.

Yes, reading the t-bhp sections & reviews before making the decision will definitely help and helped a lot here.

And congrats with your new toy. Happy miles

[condor]

Feel bad to read your experience, but I can only echo what you have gone through. I have faced a similar fate with our first car, a Padmini 137D. Ever since, we have only had new cars.

Originally Posted by sarthakgupta

Decided against selling it to a private buyer since I won't be able to milk any unsuspecting buyer by not telling him all the issues, like I got milked.

This is one thing I cant agree on - since the dealer is very likely to sell it off as a good car, and some one is likely to get cheated. But I dont blame you for any thing here, since I also know that it is difficult to find a buyer for such a car.

All the best with your new car. But do remember to read the service schedules and track them accordingly, even with your Honda. Remember that every A.s.S & S.A has their targets, and they will try to add jobs that are not necessarily required during servicing.

[ramzsys]

Some years back, i too did buy a Ford Ikon 1.8D that showed ODO reading as 65,000 km. When i went to the service center, the service record showed that last service was done at 1,10,000 km.

Nevertheless, the history showed that it was serviced at regular intervals at Ford Service, so i continued to keep it, and the mileage is now 1,78,000 km.


When buying used cars, ask the broker to allow you to take the car to it's authorized service so as to check the vehicle history.

Service centres can also charge a specific fare for this, after all, it is better to spend hundreds only to save thousands later.

[vasanthn21]

Really sad to hear about your experience.

I come from a similar background as you (nil experience with car in the family) and when I decided to buy a second hand car, I luckily got a friend of mine who is an expert in cars to tag along to check the condition of the car.

There were so many things that he observed, which I could NEVER had checked. Sharing my experience below just to reiterate the point to fellow readers that if you are a novice, take a known, trusted expert along.

Originally Posted by vasanthn21

Since I am a novice to the world of 4-wheelers, forget about inspecting a car for value, I would not be able to start and test drive on all gears! So, I took along with me a good trusted friend who has very good experience in driving and cars and now owns a fleet of cars (a travel company). He was a blessing in disguise I learnt in just 5 mins after reaching the sellers place.

[MAS]

I'm sorry to hear this experience. I guess this is "learning the hard way".

I had a similar experience, but i was not on the receiving end. I sold my Fusion in Dec 2011 with 1.31 Lakh kms on the odometer to a dealer (who is a Franchisee of Mahindra First Choice).

A month later i get a call from a person who had purchased the Fusion. As the Aircon stopped working, he wanted to know where i had serviced the car. so that he could take the car to the same place. I told him it was MPL Ford and out of curiosity asked him how the car was performing. He said he has driven a few kms and the car's odo reads 70K odd kms. I was shocked to hear this and told him the truth.

The dealer bought the car from me for 2.85 Lakhs and sold it to him for 3.5 Lakhs after rigging the odometer.

Lesson Learnt: Never buy a car from any dealer, especially Mahindra First Choice.

[Tapish]

Originally Posted by MAS

Lesson Learnt: Never buy a car from any dealer, especially Mahindra First Choice.

I guess its a standard practice across the Used car industry to rig the Odo to half its rating.

I bought my car (Esteem 2005) with 51k on the odo from Mahindra first choice. Turns out now that the car had already run about 1lkms.

Haven't sold it yet, but will do it soon, and never buy something from MFC again.

Tapish

[Santoshbhat]

Despite all the issues you have managed to get a very good price for the car.

Odometer rigging seems to be quite 'normal' with used dealers I suppose and that is the risk one has to factor while purchasing a used car from these used car dealers.

Just wondering whether car companies could make basic data like date of service and odo reading during the service carried out, publicly available on their websites. They can do this just to keep the odometer tamperers at bay. They could tag the data to the VIN of the car, so that prospective buyers of the used car could verify it on their websites. For the car company the advantage is that it will encourage people to get the car serviced at authorised service centres only and at regular intervals to keep a good service history. The new car buyer also will be happy since his car will sell easily in the used car market as it will be known as a brand where odo reading is backed up by the company.