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Old 10th April 2008, 11:32   #316
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Steeroid : 1. Issues I faced were until about 5k kms - ... - why concentrate on the 5k post alone when I've completed 50k?
It is well known & accepted that most problems in a normal vehicle will surface during the initial days of usage. Once the initial phase is completed, a well designed & built vehicle should not break down under normal conditions. And any breakdown during normal usage is often due to bad usage & maintenance.

This is also why manufacturers offer a Warranty period.
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Old 10th April 2008, 12:04   #317
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Originally Posted by tsk1979
the Safari LX 4x2 back home had problems in the first 5000kms of its life, and they were all rectified for free. But in a new vehicle such problems should not come. Anybody can fix a problem, but reliability means that problems should not come.
I agree. We can dismiss these as minor niggles, but still these do constitute unreliability and QC issues, which are not supposed to be there on a brand new car.

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Originally Posted by condor
It is well known & accepted that most problems in a normal vehicle will surface during the initial days of usage.
I am not sure how you came up with this hypothesis, condor. Are you saying that this is the scenario across all makes of cars or that it is a Tata thing ? There is no way you will see this in normal cars.
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Old 10th April 2008, 12:15   #318
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Still my concern is regarding the subros guys.TATA is taking all the abuse just because of theses puny vendors.Anyways its not that big an issue.And i started loving this vehicle nowadays.
ram
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Old 10th April 2008, 12:16   #319
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Originally Posted by condor View Post
It is well known & accepted that most problems in a normal vehicle will surface during the initial days of usage. Once the initial phase is completed, a well designed & built vehicle should not break down under normal conditions. And any breakdown during normal usage is often due to bad usage & maintenance.

This is also why manufacturers offer a Warranty period.
Disagree here.
We own Tata, Maruti, Fiat and Hyundai
Except for Tata and Fiat(to a lesser extent) none of the vehicles had these intial issues.
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Old 10th April 2008, 12:17   #320
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
I am not sure how you came up with this hypothesis, condor. Are you saying that this is the scenario across all makes of cars or that it is a Tata thing ? There is no way you will see this in normal cars.
my friend's brand new spark developed problems three to four times in the first month itself. finally one day he is going with his boss, car stalled on the middle of the road and refused to start.it has to be towed. it was diagnosed as defective alternator and replaced under warranty. car has run less than 5K at that time.

to compensate him for the trouble GM provided 4 alloy wheels free after this incident

Similarly there are posts in this forum where new Wagon R's(Duo) have stalled and has to be towed

i have also read in news papers( Indian Express) about brand new Mercedes cars catching fire and burning ( three cases reported in the last two years)

it shows in general all car manufacturers are taking indian customers for a ride with respect to Q&C

at least in this forum i have not seen any one reporting that alternator in TATA cars gone within one month after purchase
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Old 10th April 2008, 12:20   #321
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Hey S B ,to a certain extend what condor said is right.Most of the minor issues surface in the initial period of usage for most of the cars.Classic examples are rattling etc.
ram
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Old 10th April 2008, 12:31   #322
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
I disagree here Steer.
the Safari LX 4x2 back home had problems in the first 5000kms of its life, and they were all rectified for free. But in a new vehicle such problems should not come.
3L Dicor?

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Originally Posted by ram_hyundai View Post
Still my concern is regarding the subros guys.TATA is taking all the abuse just because of theses puny vendors.Anyways its not that big an issue.And i started loving this vehicle nowadays.
ram
You said it. The vendors escape and Tata get the blame.

Dont forget that soem 2.2L Dicor owner's got things changed proactively last month. This shows how things have changed at Tata. Also, 2.2L was launched first in Europe. This shows that they were confident about their product.

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Disagree here.
We own Tata, Maruti, Fiat and Hyundai
Except for Tata and Fiat(to a lesser extent) none of the vehicles had these intial issues.
Hyundai, yes. Good built quality. Wont vote for Maruti!

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Originally Posted by ram_hyundai View Post
Hey S B ,to a certain extend what condor said is right.Most of the minor issues surface in the initial period of usage for most of the cars.Classic examples are rattling etc.
ram
Classic rattling cases with Swift for example?
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Old 10th April 2008, 12:31   #323
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
I agree. We can dismiss these as minor niggles, but still these do constitute unreliability and QC issues, which are not supposed to be there on a brand new car.
to SB's point. these issues are some what acceptable when they launch a new car but not tolerable year after year.
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Old 10th April 2008, 12:35   #324
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Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
3L Dicor?
Yup, LX 4x2
Starting problem traced to earthing issue traced after 6 workshop visits and 20K kms.
Was not very critical though, occasional long self needed.

Quote:
You said it. The vendors escape and Tata get the blame.

Dont forget that soem 2.2L Dicor owner's got things changed proactively last month. This shows how things have changed at Tata. Also, 2.2L was launched first in Europe. This shows that they were confident about their product.
Tata is a big company and can definitely arm twist suppliers. For example it ditched indian suppliers in favor of chinese(Power steering some stuff) when quality went down the drain. Lousy suppliers is no excuse

Quote:
Hyundai, yes. Good built quality. Wont vote for Maruti!
Classic rattling cases with Swift for example?
Rattling won't leave you stranded in the middle of nowhere.
Build quality wise the safari is very tough. I concede that.
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Old 10th April 2008, 12:41   #325
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supremeBaleno : I am not sure how you came up with this hypothesis, condor. Are you saying that this is the scenario across all makes of cars or that it is a Tata thing ? There is no way you will see this in normal cars.
@SB, this is not a hypothesis, and this will happen across any make / model - and this is applicable anywhere - India or the US. Of course, some makes/models show more initial issues than others do.

A manufacturing process is not perfect - there are lot of variables involved, both in the assembly & in the parts used. It's only when the vehicle is assembled and is put to use under normal conditions that one comes to know of any problems.

Once set right, you have a properly working machine that should not break down unless you abuse it with carelessness in usage /maintenance.

If there were quality /design issues with the problems that Steer mentioned in the relevant post, he wouldnt have been able to use the A/c during the rest of the 50k kms that he has had the truck for. And he would have mentioned these problems as problems - not as initial niggles.
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Old 10th April 2008, 12:52   #326
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Well I know this is a 3.0 thread

And I know of ppl's reported 3.0 problems

but I agree with JKdas

Lets admit it:

- 3.0 is no longer manufactured
- 2.2 is the new Safari
- Please read the 2.2 review for the initial ownership reports and form your opinion.
- TATA's have learned and has moved on

The new 2.2l engine is the base of everything now, Safari, Sumo Grande and Xenon (launched in bangkok MS)

Last edited by dadu : 10th April 2008 at 12:53.
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Old 10th April 2008, 12:56   #327
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Originally Posted by condor
@SB, this is not a hypothesis, and this will happen across any make / model - and this is applicable anywhere - India or the US. Of course, some makes/models show more initial issues than others do.
I have not had the privelege of owning a non-Maruti at any point, so I would desist from talking about them. But we have gone through 5 maruti cars (2 M800s, 1 Alto, a Swift and a Baleno) between 1985-2007 and I never had to use the warranty or even fix any upto-5K km niggles that you say are common.

If I pay for a brand new car (used cars come with their own issues), I expect it to be reliable, instead of me having to run to the garage every now and then to fix things, and that too during the first few months of its life. And if I have to do that, IMO the car is not reliable, and I might as well pay lesser for a used car. The idea of shelling out extra dough for a new car is primarily to have a reliable & trouble-free user experience.

Last edited by supremeBaleno : 10th April 2008 at 12:58.
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Old 10th April 2008, 12:58   #328
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But dadu that doesn't mean we can ignore the 3L buddie.There are lots of 3L owners who would be interested to know about what is what and maybe the can be cautioned on certain issues also.
ram
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Old 10th April 2008, 13:00   #329
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Sure at 30K kms its doing fine, but when somebody whose 3000kms new vehicle conks on the highway, they will not rate it "high on reliability".
Very true. Especially if someone has paid ~9 lakhs for that.
I am worried, how will I convince my family if that happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
As is the case with your vehicle, it has suffered a lot of faults, and many parts have been replaced.
This shows lack of QC. Anybody can fix a problem, but reliability means that problems should not come.
Worrying aspect is - it doesnt seem to have stopped with the initial set of vehicles.

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
You got lucky that your safari is behaving properly. There are quite a few safari members on this very board who had this "oil leak" problem.
testdrive' long term report has said its finally resolved. But he seems to be very unhappy with his A.S.S.

I think he wouldnt recommend Safari to anyone. <<My perception, after reading his thread >>

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Sure safari is tough, can take abuse, is extremely comfortable, and may be sitting in my garage too sometime soon, but as far as reliability is concerned, I do not have very high expectations.
This is what beats me! Why would you still consider Safari?

I work for a TATA company and have a huge respect for TATA family.
However, I never considered a TATA car before. I joined this forum when I was debating SX4 vs Verna. I got slowly converted to a diesel head and now almost finalized on Safari/ Grande.

I am worried big time - what if iam UNLUCKY? Alternates like Scorpio - dont inspire confidence. Maybe Innova - however I am worried about my parking capability. Also, I would LIKE to drive an SUV.

Are people choosing Safari because of lack of choices?

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
SB, this is not a hypothesis, and this will happen across any make / model - and this is applicable anywhere - India or the US. Of course, some makes/models show more niggles than others do.

A manufacturing process is not perfect - there are lot of variables involved, both in the assembly & in the parts used. It's only when the vehicle is assembled and is put to use under normal conditions that one comes to know of any problems.
Agree with @Condor on most points, except that, The warranty should be for exceptions and not as norm.

Sorry Steer - didnt want to hijack your thread. But your ownership report is the best of the Safari long term reviews.
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Old 10th April 2008, 13:03   #330
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We are having a debate of an old product of Tata and as tsk said , a guinea pig.Thanks to that today we do have some 2.2L owners including me who dont have or havent faced any of these issues. We also have Indica/Indigo V2 users who also didnt report any problems. Lets continue this debate if we come across new issues on 2.2L and leave this thread for Steer's Dicor updates.
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