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Old 17th January 2006, 15:25   #31
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Well since current safari is 7.5 approx for base version, 6.5-7.0 for the new version seems appropiate, considering it will have lesser amount of metal, and will share the platform with a MuV which is supposed to sell as much as Innova.
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Old 17th January 2006, 15:30   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979
Well since current safari is 7.5 approx for base version, 6.5-7.0 for the new version seems appropiate, considering it will have lesser amount of metal, and will share the platform with a MuV which is supposed to sell as much as Innova.
Sounds good! Only thing is the long wait.......not that we have too many options at the moment! Though, from what I see from Steeroid's review, they've already upgraded quite a few of the niggling concerns, hopefully some more will be done by the time 20,000 is up!
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Old 17th January 2006, 17:01   #33
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Originally Posted by tsk1979
Despite my goading the dude did not let out any horsepower details, though the Auto magazines rumour mill has it at 125bhp.
I've heard stories about this 2.2 litre Dicor engine too, with an estimated 125 bhp. There is also some talk from other members on this forum about the 3 litre getting upped to 155 bhp by the time the Fortuner arrives. Shaving weight off this tanker alone will suffice to drive up performance significantly. Poor McLaren couldnt lift the bonnet because it was too heavy.

@ DI - I've used 4X4 mostly on bad roads or when I go off-roading. I have NEVER gotten stuck on this vehicle As such the 4X4 mileage has not been worth recording.

However, I've heard the 4X4 makes going around twisties easier and I have first hand experience in AWD cars. My question is - how effective (and how safe for the transfer case) is it when the twisties are basically smooth tarmac? I've been wanting to shift to 4x4 on many of these sections but was unsure about whether smooth roads and 4-wheel-drive may pack up the transmission.

As for your question whether 4x4 is really required since most Scorps and Safaris you see on the road are 4x2.....GTO and I had a telephonic discussion before I picked up my car and we both agreed that an SUV without 4x4 is like a bull without b###s. Imagine how embarassing it would be if you got stuck in mud or on bad roads with your massive, imposing looking SUV and you dont have the capability to pull it out? This happened to a Scorpio who was hot on my trail on the Salem-Bangalore leg on my previous trip...some sections of the highway are still being built up (4 lane) and are therefore closed to traffic. I usually take these closed sections when it looks like a majority has been tarmac-ed and the Scorpio followed bravely. The end of the road was slush, which I waded through to rejoin the highway while he stood at the edge of the slush looking very much like a dog scared of water....he finally turned tail and headed back to where the road was originally closed.

@GTO - No magic. Just honest, in-the-face description of problems and a list of options for them to solve it.

Last edited by Steeroid : 17th January 2006 at 17:10.
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Old 17th January 2006, 17:35   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979
Unless you are into offroading, 4x4 is really not needed. In normal conditions 4x4 may help when the road is twisty or gravel and its raining etc., Even then unless you plan to do some serious rallyish driving like our Steer, you wont need 4x4. 4x2 will also mean better performance due to lesser weight.
We used to own a gypsy King and the only time I used 4x4 was when in slush or climbing steep muddy hills where all 4 wheels were needed.

So, it is advisable to go in for 4X2 and save rupees one lac? The issue perhaps is emotional (not having 4X4 in an SUV is a little disturbing to me) versus rational (why spend a lac on something you will scarsely use?)

On a related note if you are really planning for the safari DICOR, unless you are in a big hurry better wait for a year. Tata has launched the Xover concept. This is the X2 platform on which new safari will be based. It will be lighter, cheaper and will get a different engine(2.2L DICOR). This a Tata guy told me at the expo. Though new SuV on new platform in 2007 was old news, the 2.2L engine being developed is a new development. Despite my goading the dude did not let out any horsepower details, though the Auto magazines rumour mill has it at 125bhp.

To be honest, I did not like the XOVER's looks or even finishing. (I too went to Auto Expo)It looked as if it had been hand-made at a local roadside workshop. The styling (a la Toyota Innova) already looks dated and too van-like. In comparison, Safari looks deadly even though it's been around for many years.

Imagine 125BHP, 1500kgs, 4x2 base model with Power windows and basic luxury for 6.5 lakh. If you are desparate and cant wait, therefore think of the scorpio, even scorpio is coming with a new version in March timeframe. Overdrive has the spy pics.
I find the Scorpio too cramped from inside. Doesn't quite appeal to me. But I'll definitely have a look at the new version that you've mentioned. Probably also worth consideration is the Indigo Marina (I call it the poor man's Safari) but it's too sluggish as of now and I hear that DICOR Marina will only be introduced sometime in August.

"If you are desparate and cant wait"

I can certainly wait for a few months if I can manage to convince my wife (she's sick of going around in my non-AC Maruti 800) to do the same.
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Old 17th January 2006, 17:59   #35
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Sorry folks, my reply to tsk1979's post didn't reproduce well. Some of my comments got reproduced in the quote box.
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Old 17th January 2006, 18:27   #36
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Originally Posted by directinjection
Probably also worth consideration is the Indigo Marina (I call it the poor man's Safari) but it's too sluggish as of now and I hear that DICOR Marina will only be introduced sometime in August.
now thats good news- especially if u add the extended wheelbase to it! It'll really be the poor man's safari - at least the 4x2 version of it, if they an keep prices where they are or thereabouts.
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Old 17th January 2006, 18:55   #37
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Xover is not the new safari. Its just the platform, like Fortuner and Innova are same platform. the new safari is not going to look like Xover, except for length of wheelbase.
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Old 18th January 2006, 12:57   #38
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Nice review there Steeroid. Good to know Indian Manufactures becoming better. The old safari was poor ( in many areas) and the DICOR is just the opposite.

Quote:
wonder how bsmotoring called it a dud
Haha. They even said one the performance of the CVT equipped City i must admit is a bit of disaster.
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Old 18th January 2006, 14:14   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979
Xover is not the new safari. Its just the platform, like Fortuner and Innova are same platform. the new safari is not going to look like Xover, except for length of wheelbase.
Nice to hear that tsk. Any idea what the new Safari will look like? Haven't come across any reports regarding that. I do hope Tata will utilise the services of a good international design house to do the styling like they did with the current Safari (I believe it was designed by IAD of UK which has since been taken over by Hyundai). Is Xover meant to be a Sumo replacement then?
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Old 18th January 2006, 14:27   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by directinjection
Nice to hear that tsk. Any idea what the new Safari will look like? Haven't come across any reports regarding that. I do hope Tata will utilise the services of a good international design house to do the styling like they did with the current Safari (I believe it was designed by IAD of UK which has since been taken over by Hyundai). Is Xover meant to be a Sumo replacement then?
It is the new platform for the 2007 Safari, not the Sumo; what tsk means is that the Safari will not look like what we saw at the Expo as the Xover but it will be on this wheelbase.
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Old 18th January 2006, 14:29   #41
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Tata is unusually tight lipped about that!
Speaking of Sumo, I think sumo will be for taxi market in 5L bracket and you will have the Xover undercutting the innova by 1 lac. Incidently Tata has bought a design house or something like that in UK.
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Old 18th January 2006, 16:51   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid
The end of the road was slush, which I waded through to rejoin the highway while he stood at the edge of the slush looking very much like a dog scared of water....he finally turned tail and headed back to where the road was originally closed.

ROTFL

You are a very good writer Steer. Nice review detailed and objective to the 'T'.

Looking forward to your next one.
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Old 18th January 2006, 16:51   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid
The end of the road was slush, which I waded through to rejoin the highway while he stood at the edge of the slush looking very much like a dog scared of water....he finally turned tail and headed back to where the road was originally closed.

ROTFL

You are a very good writer Steer. Nice review - detailed and objective to the 'T'.

Looking forward to your next one.
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Old 18th January 2006, 18:26   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid

However, I've heard the 4X4 makes going around twisties easier and I have first hand experience in AWD cars. My question is - how effective (and how safe for the transfer case) is it when the twisties are basically smooth tarmac? I've been wanting to shift to 4x4 on many of these sections but was unsure about whether smooth roads and 4-wheel-drive may pack up the transmission.
4WD (4H) on tarmac (or high traction surfaces) should not be a problem as long as the diffs (front/rear/center) are not locked. In fact, on vehicles not known for good road manners, it is recommended while driving fast on twisties. LandCruisers, for example, have full time 4WD (not AWD) on many models. Lock a diff, and it's a different story; you get hard steering, transmission windup etc which will lead to driveline damage.

I know Safari does not have lockable front/rear diffs but it might have a center diff lock when 4L is engaged.

Gears,
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Old 18th January 2006, 22:44   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedOne
I know Safari does not have lockable front/rear diffs but it might have a center diff lock when 4L is engaged.
Is that why the shift OUT of 4L requires you to stop, turn the dial to 4H/2H, put the car in reverse and take a couple of paces backwards till the 4L light goes off?

Does this mean then that its OK to use 4H on smooth twisties? It really improves your drivability on these stretches...

Last edited by Steeroid : 18th January 2006 at 22:46.
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