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Old 24th February 2009, 11:16   #481
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Straightens out curves dramatically. Very very effective - you must try this out (but not for long and not at 80+ kmph like our good friend TSK)
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Has been discussed about 2 years ago, check post #s 102, 104 and 106 on this thread.
It has been discussed, and it is correct, but it still doesn't explain how 4L on tarmac is acceptable at any speed. I have experienced massive windup when I drove in 4L for 20 meters on tarmac in crawl speed, this happened when my 4WD levers got stuck and I couldn't disengage.

Even straight line driving in 4WD (without center-diff) on tarmac is not good because the tyres are not prefect and there is always a slight difference requiring slip.
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Old 24th February 2009, 11:28   #482
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It has been discussed, and it is correct, but it still doesn't explain how 4L on tarmac is acceptable at any speed.
We havent mentioned 4L anywhere.


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I have experienced massive windup when I drove in 4L for 20 meters on tarmac in crawl speed, this happened when my 4WD levers got stuck and I couldn't disengage.
Thats because you were in 4L.
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Old 24th February 2009, 11:36   #483
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We havent mentioned 4L anywhere.
Ok, I was thinking about my case. Say 4H, it just takes a little longer to windup. I still like to understand how you are able to compensate for it on tarmac. The LSD is only on your rear diffs, and there is no center diff, it is as good as locked center diff.
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Old 24th February 2009, 11:36   #484
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How does 4L or 4H make a difference in a vehicle like safari. All 4L is doing is giving you a lower gear ratio. From 4x4 perspective, if windup happens, it will be same in 4H and 4L
However if the vehicle has a center diff, which gets locked only in 4L then it will make a difference, otherwise it will not.
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Old 24th February 2009, 11:49   #485
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I still like to understand how you are able to compensate for it on tarmac.
LOL, Samurai, with our roads in the condition that they are, there are enough bumps and potholes to allow a lot of opportunity for slip when needed!

I expect that binding will occur much faster on ultra smooth tarmac!
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Old 24th February 2009, 11:52   #486
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How does 4L or 4H make a difference in a vehicle like safari. All 4L is doing is giving you a lower gear ratio. From 4x4 perspective, if windup happens, it will be same in 4H and 4L.
I suspect this will happen much faster in 4L. Also, one would have to be incredibly stupid to use 4L to go faster around bends - which is why I specified that we used 4H and not 4L.

Transmission windup is the subject that was discussed in the posts I have mentioned, do go through the same. I have used 4H in the hills occassionally and with discretion both in the past and now - it makes a dramatic difference to the way you go around curves, but will obviously create problems if not used judiciously. In the instance we were talking about, we were sliding around corners enough for the wheels to spin out freely on practically every turn. The road was VERY smooth and we were actually sliding through the curves as it was a shakedown test to see how the new suspension setup handles and also to get everything down there loosened out thoroughly.

PS: To everyone who may be reading this: I do realize that the term 'sliding around corners' on a 2-tonne diesel SUV sounds very incongruous, but this is exactly what we did. It slides better in RWD (obviously) but we had a Baleno to catch up with so we switched to 4H and it did take those corners a lot faster and soon we were sniffing up its boot.

Last edited by Steeroid : 24th February 2009 at 12:06.
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Old 24th February 2009, 12:11   #487
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Were you on 4H during the monsoon drive last year? If you were, then there seems to be no problem because the rear wheels were slipping away to glory on every corner.
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Old 24th February 2009, 12:14   #488
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Steeroid, I don't have as much experience as you in using 4WD, therefore I am trying to understand the mechanics here. Yes, I read those earlier posts.

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I suspect this will happen much faster in 4L. Also, one would have to be incredibly stupid to use 4L to go faster around bends - which is why I specified that we used 4H and not 4L.
It is my understanding that windup is purely a function of slip/traction offered by the road and the distance travelled, the speed doesn't matter.

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I have used 4H in the hills occassionally and with discretion both in the past and now - it makes a dramatic difference to the way you go around curves, but will obviously create problems if not used judiciously.
When you say hills and curves, is that mud trails or smooth tarmac? The whole confusion is because you gave an impression in #475 about driving the curves in 4H on tarmac. As you mentioned there, I'd like try it out, but not before understanding the effect on the transmission. I already know the advantage of 4WD in curved roads thanks to GV, but haven't dared to try that in the Jeep since it doesn't have center LSD.
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Old 24th February 2009, 12:16   #489
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Were you on 4H during the monsoon drive last year? If you were, then there seems to be no problem because the rear wheels were slipping away to glory on every corner.
Nope. We were on RWD then - we were TRYING to get it to slide back then, which was a bit tough with so much weight inside the vehicle (5 healthy adults + their luggage + 2 crates of you-know-what) that made it behave too well.
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Old 24th February 2009, 12:21   #490
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Steer,

Could you elaborate on what you meant by " the front was dropped " ? I'm guessing that you've done a suspension job that reduces the pitch and roll of the safari by 'lowering' the suspension setup. Is that right ? How much of GC did you loose ?

thanks
srinivas
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Old 24th February 2009, 12:22   #491
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It is my understanding that windup is purely a function of slip/traction offered by the road and the distance travelled, the speed doesn't matter.
Its not the speed we're talking about when we speak of windup. On 4L you are multiplying the engine's torque against the wheels. Therefore my viewpoint that it would cause a windup faster (i.e., within a shorter distance travelled). 4L is anyway unusable under normal (tarmac) conditions as you will probably need to use 4th gear to start off. Even on reasonably tough climbs over rock/mud I've never gone above 4L/3rd gear.

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When you say hills and curves, is that mud trails or smooth tarmac? The whole confusion is because you gave an impression in #475 about driving the curves in 4H on tarmac. As you mentioned there, I'd like try it out, but not before understanding the effect on the transmission. I already know the advantage of 4WD in curved roads thanks to GV, but haven't dared to try that in the Jeep since it doesn't have center LSD.
Smooth tarmac. VERY smooth, in fact. When we got onto less smooth and uneven tarmac on the TN side we didnt use 4H because you couldnt slide around those corners and in any case the road was uneven and therefore we were doing lower speeds - there was no need to straightline corners anymore because the Baleno was just about in front.

We were throwing it around the curves - in RWD we lost some speed as the rear would slide out a bit too much and we'd get carried towards the periphery. On 4H the slide was much better controlled, allowing us to carry more speed through the corners.

Seriously, this is sounding quite ridiculous in a 4WD thread!!!!

SMSRINI: The front is on Torsion Beams, so the suspension height can be adjusted. nikki and Perumal from Concorde decided that the truck needs to be able to slide through corners like a car, so they dropped the front.

I've lost quite some GC - terrain that I used to go through comfortably is slightly trickier now. Personally, I'd like to see the front a bit higher, but considering the fact that I dont come home as often as I used to I guess we'll stick to this setup for a while. Its just that I will have to go back to Concorde if we decide to do that Himalayan trip later this year.

Last edited by Steeroid : 24th February 2009 at 12:29.
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Old 24th February 2009, 12:26   #492
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I have NO clue about the technical side of this, but the difference that 4H made on the truck was simply amazing. It just gripped on to the road like a leech, and we could really push it more than what was possible on 2wd.

Of course, it was tested on pure tarmac, and on winding roads.
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Old 24th February 2009, 12:38   #493
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Thumbs up T R U C K is back! 70000 kms Service DONE!

Here it is... in full GLORY!
Apart from the periodical (70k)service jobs, all rattlings, suspension sounds etc have been cleared this time and it is running butter smooth!
Only grim i have about this one is HEFTY service bills!!! ugh... certain parts are damn expensive!!
NO more rippings and stunts... am pampering her now:-)
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Last edited by nikkibike : 24th February 2009 at 12:40.
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Old 24th February 2009, 13:16   #494
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Every time I see Steers truck, I cant help go.. "Damn those alloys are sexy!!"
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Old 24th February 2009, 14:17   #495
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congrats steer

the beats is looking totally new and ready for more and i hope it drives the same way too.

you lucky to have have Nikki by your side.
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