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Old 9th December 2013, 00:07   #16
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^ Service and parts replacements are two different things. A regular service never costed 26k to any Fiat owner I know of.

And clutch replacements and timing chain kit, etc are not part of periodic service.

You need not be a brand ambassador to see the facts and also the difference between a regular service and wear/tear parts replacement.
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Old 9th December 2013, 01:27   #17
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^ Thats because, (for quite a few of us) by the time theres a scheduled service, some or the other part seems to have given away / worn off prematurely!

You're getting SO specific about "the difference between a regular service and wear/tear parts replacement", then why aren't Toyota's, Hyundai's or even Maruti's likely to have such excessive wear & tear at similar timelines?

Fact is, there ARE people who've been incurring HIGH upkeep costs regularly apart from scheduled maintenance.

With our limited database, I doubt we can actually come up with factual and 100% (I doubt even 60%) accurate reasons as to what's causing this, but FIAT, given the resources & service database, can study & make suitable alterations in procedures/controls followed at the service centers and maybe provide better maintenance solutions to old and new customers.

P.S. : The purpose of my posts on the forum is to appeal to FIAT to find possible ways to prevent the kind of premature(IMO) wear & tear we're regularly facing.
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Old 9th December 2013, 11:25   #18
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To me it seems "it is a question of heart and soul" when describing a car. Here heart and soul concept is also coupled with certain degree of humility. Otherwise, a car at workshop for days and workshops sourcing parts from parent company is not to everyone's liking these days. Fiat India is indeed serious about service, but what needs to be seen is how long can a one man army (Mangesh) run a service show. Hope they realize from Skoda's service blunders in India and do not follow their footsteps which may result in the killing of an otherwise wonderful product.
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Old 9th December 2013, 12:46   #19
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Hi @smilenow

I know this is , but Techno Motors isn't that bad IMO. I have heard good stories about them. However, Rama Motors is no short of Devil, worst dealer to deal with.

For their bad (corrupt) practices/ service, they were kicked out by Maruti Suzuki long ago, but guess few years back they have managed to enter Tata's fold... . Believe me they are a rotten apple, & can spoil the entire basket.

What's your next ride BTW?
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Old 9th December 2013, 13:07   #20
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Originally Posted by DRIV3R View Post
Whom did you contact? Did you specifically write to a person called Mangesh? He is the one who is customer oriented and takes care of service and spare related issues. He has taken care of one of my sales escalations too, though it was not under his command.
Since I was sitting with the owner of the workshop when the compressor and all issue crept up, he specifically called up someone in Pune, and showed them the history of the car. Then I spoke and requested them but to no avail. There was then no point in contacting to Mangesh. To be extremely honest, i had stopped caring and just wanted the car to be out of the workshop as soon as possible. My car and me were celebrities in that particular workshop because of the amount of time spent there.

Quote:
Again, was your car never ever recalled for replacing this part under warranty for the CSC? AFAIK, all initial batches were recalled after many cars broke down. IIRC, our mod .anshuman's Punto too was one of them.

Am not sure how the recall was done though. Whether Fiat contacted each and every custom and informed or if it was done when car went it for routine service!
Nope. no calls or emails, never was informed on routine services. Had I known , or even got a sniff of the smell of a recall, My car would have been the first to visit a workshop. I am ultra-protective of the cars I own.

Quote:
We got couple of Fiat's in our garage and thankfully all's well till date. Touch wood.
I sincerely hope that it always stays that way.

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Originally Posted by 100kmph View Post
Congratulations for the 'Grand new lingo.' Has your running gone down as you moved from a diesel to a petrol? Or the anticipated deregulation of the diesel prices?
Anyway you have got a nice high revving engine-the KAPPA. May it serve you with smiles for miles.
Thanks, My daiy running worked out to be almost 55 KMS with the Punto, but apart from the 1st year, it was always segregated and mostly in the city. To add to that, mostly extremely short distances, that would add up to a larger sum in the day. The average I was deriving out of the diesel wasn't that great (12 to 13), because the engine was mostly runnin in 1st/2nd and the occasional 3rd/4th. Earlier I used to travel from Delhi to Gurgaon for my job, but now that is not the case.

I only buy top models because I want safety first, the dzire accident thread validates my insistence on airbags and ABS. The i10 grand on -road top model diesel vs Petrol has a difference of 1.4 lakhs. That amount coupled with maintenance costs and the nature of distances my car is doing, it didn't make sense to go in for a diesel again. On top of it, the new Honda city petrol is coming home in February so the distance that each car runs, will get split.

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Originally Posted by sabsubs View Post
Not one sad story but there are many in team-bhp as well as other online forums. I had seen another thread started by a punto owner just couple of days. I am unable find that thread. These 2 are just examples.

What you are saying is true. I am not against Fiat but after reading so many horror stories about Fiat after sales service I am very skeptical about it. Hope that their service improves. Sorry to bump your thread smilenow. Wish you many happy miles with you new car.
Thanks, again and no problem in bumping the thread. useful discussions are the sole reason that in this forum exists and you are making extremely valid points.See just because Harish had a terrible experience with Skoda, doesn't mean that all octavia owners hated their car. It is pure luck, with who gets hit with what. I am sure since my steering failed, it may not be the case that every Punto's steering pump is likely to fail.

Since you are planning to buy a Punto, based on my interactions with a lot of owners and other members of the team, do carefully consider the cost of ownership and consider the resale value. The car is fine, the ASS is average and you will surely derive a lot of pleasure out of it. In 2009, I bought the punto because of its price tag (6.5) compared to i20(8.15), bells and whistles, and primarily because there wasn't a ZDI on the swift. You take me back 4 years, give me a swift ZDI and I will gladly take that over this.

I don't hate FIAT, but it is primarily for people who understand cars, know Mangesh, are aware of issues and what need to be done. For anyone who is a layman, and is a regular car buyer, you will be dead out of luck.

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Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
Congrats, smilenow, in finding for the past 4 years, the share of joy that a Fiat gives. Also congrats for having broken loose too.!

Guys, smilenow is absolutely right, this is a serious problem. Fiat's, to MANY, have cost quite alot (both in terms of $$ and downtime).

I bought a Pre-worshipped Fiat Linea from a doctor who truly dedicatedly LOVED the car for its true qualities. But having gone through similar experiences as 'smilenow', he'd eventually given up. His final parting words with the car were, "It was a good run but it just can't go on".
These was my exact same sentiment, I gave the car off just because I didn't know what would fail next. Like that Diesel Pump and its cost of 24000, which for the meanwhile was holding up because of some tape and fevibond. I didn't want to pour more money wherein I could just buy a new one and drive off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mints21 View Post
To me it seems "it is a question of heart and soul" when describing a car. Here heart and soul concept is also coupled with certain degree of humility. Otherwise, a car at workshop for days and workshops sourcing parts from parent company is not to everyone's liking these days. Fiat India is indeed serious about service, but what needs to be seen is how long can a one man army (Mangesh) run a service show. Hope they realize from Skoda's service blunders in India and do not follow their footsteps which may result in the killing of an otherwise wonderful product.
Let us consider a few things, regarding Mangesh & Co. When I bought the car , and that was squarely based on the team's feedback and threads, hype level and anticipation. Then there was a place called Rama Motors, Okhla. It was a fabled place, and quite approved by FIAT owners. I stay 40 kms from that place, yet I specifically bought the car from there to initiate a relationship. 2 years down the line, that place is no more, or maybe they just don't do FIAT no more. I don't know the current status, but it was quite a dampener. Because that was the only workshop with decent feedback.

Based on that , let us consider the larger issue here, what happens when Mangesh leaves for a career change? or relocates? or god forbids, dies off? (please don't get offended). See, all of us know him, because we are members here, but after spending a considerable time in workshops, I can attest that there are tons of people who don't know any such contact.

Why I stopped fighting so much , because I had a career to make, I didn't have time to run around getting cars fixed and getting the parent company involved. And that too, every 4th month. If it were a one off case, sure enough I would have ripped their clothes apart, but there is a limit to everyone's patience.

I can't imagine plight of those owners who are not active online, don't know jack and just bought a 'car'. When they face such issues, FIAT is not only losing one customer, but 25 prospective clients in his family circle.

After this experience, i didn't get the Eecsport, a car I most like, but instead booked Honda City. Why? I don't have the time to deal with Ford. At least with Honda, let us not consider bad luck here, I can be 75% sure that I will have side arrangements in case anything goes wrong. I am not saying people haven't had nightmares with Honda, or their cars are the best.

I would spend this much time (time spent on Punto), on lets a 4x4 Gypsy , modifying it , studying it and getting it ready for a trip to Leh. I don't have the time nor the money to spend on a city car for everyday use.The car was excellent when it came together,the ownership was certainly NOT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CARDEEP View Post
Hi @smilenow

I know this is , but Techno Motors isn't that bad IMO. I have heard good stories about them. However, Rama Motors is no short of Devil, worst dealer to deal with.

For their bad (corrupt) practices/ service, they were kicked out by Maruti Suzuki long ago, but guess few years back they have managed to enter Tata's fold... . Believe me they are a rotten apple, & can spoil the entire basket.

What's your next ride BTW?
I think its subjective experiences, Rama motors was hailed as King by the FIAT club or whatever it was called back then. I heard good stories aboutTechno, thus headed out here in the middle of nowhere. I think it depends on the kind of person your service advisor is , the kind of luck you have, and the nature of the problem. I will also tell you, I am one of the most chilled out people, yet techno was able to make me shout at the top of my voice. LOL

Next ride is already home -i10Grand Asta (o) Petrol and the new Honda City is booked. Cheers!

Since you mentioned techno, I was scouting for some mails in my inbox I came across this...

Quote:
To - service@fiapl.comProblem-
Hello,
I am writing with reference to the parts availability for the Punto diesel emotion pack. The power steering pump on my car failed, while driving and I have given the cars at Tuli Motors, Raja garden for repairs on Saturday, 14th January. The part is not available anywhere in Delhi, and I am stranded with my only car just because of a small part. This is the 5th occasion now that my punto will be stranded in the workstation due to lack of availability of a part, earlier it was the power steering oil at techno motors, previous to that was the shocker mounting at Rama motors, and the list goes on. There is not a problem with the service centers or the dealers or the car, but instead of hiring accenture to tell you how to run the company, make the damn parts available so customers like me can atleast think of buying a fiat again and recommending it people. I am a single user of the car and having shelled out 6.5 lacs , I don't like to roam around calling for autos for weeks just because of a non availability of a part.

Solution -
Dispatch the power steering pump to tuli motors, Raja Garden at the earliest , its an earnest request, I am sick and tired of waiting for parts.
*sniff*....... the memories.

If I manage to find it I will surely post the email hoopla that happened with techno as well, with them apologizing profusely for the madness that occurred there.

Last edited by smilenow : 9th December 2013 at 13:22.
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Old 9th December 2013, 16:30   #21
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Oh boy oh boy! To be frank I have almost finalized purchasing Fiat Grande Punto. I test drove the car couple of times and really liked the car for all it's positives. Actually I had booked i20 CRDI Sportz but due to its bad steering and suspension I had to keep that on hold but after going through your post, I am having second opinion on Fiat Grande Punto. I can't keep running from pillar to post for car repairs and for car services. Good that I stumbled upon your post. Thanks a lot mate for sharing the story!

I own a 2010 model Punto and no niggling issues till date except for a turbo hose change once which costed me 1k and regular brake pads change along with servicing. Touchwood. Go ahead and realize your decision. Getting a good car with negative feelings is not good for both of you be it any car. !!
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Old 9th December 2013, 16:32   #22
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I have booked the punto in Chennai and getting it delivered this week. I hope the initial issues with the car is sorted and it gives me trouble free ownership in the years to come. Loved the drive and fell in love over it.
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Old 9th December 2013, 18:54   #23
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That's quite an ordeal that you went through during the past 3 years, and still you kept your cool to the last point! It's such a pity that the company whose diesel engine is the best seller in this country can't get things right in its own vehicle. This makes one wonder whether it is really because of FIAT multijet that Maruti is selling swift like hot cakes. I think that even if it was some other diesel engine, maruti would have sold the same numbers today. Their service network and parts availability is the key. Look at the other models with same Fiat multijet engine- Tata vista, Premier Rio, SAIL, and of course Punto. None of them are even average performers when it comes to sales.
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Old 9th December 2013, 20:08   #24
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Originally Posted by Rubbertramps View Post
I own a 2010 model Punto and no niggling issues till date except for a turbo hose change once which costed me 1k and regular brake pads change along with servicing. Touchwood. Go ahead and realize your decision. Getting a good car with negative feelings is not good for both of you be it any car. !!
Yea I am going to purchase it. Test drove both 90HP and 75HP and loved both. However I am bit confused on 75HP and 90HP, may be in a day or two I will be clear on my thoughts. Now both my head and heart says Punto.
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Old 9th December 2013, 21:28   #25
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Yea I am going to purchase it. Test drove both 90HP and 75HP and loved both. However I am bit confused on 75HP and 90HP, may be in a day or two I will be clear on my thoughts. Now both my head and heart says Punto.

Punto 90hp might be heavy on the pocket. Since my service advisor recently told me that timing belts change comes in at 60k service for 90Hp where it comes at 90k service for 75 hp. So there are these differences as well !!
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Old 9th December 2013, 21:53   #26
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i have booked punto 90hp sports...i dont see any qualitly or fit and finish issues in the present cars...so far my experience with the sales guys were good. lets see.

Mod Note : Please avoid typing with excessive dots.........like................this.

Last edited by bblost : 9th December 2013 at 23:54.
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Old 10th December 2013, 09:20   #27
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"Kitna deti hai", "Ketna Kharcha?" and "Kitni resale?" were none of my concerns when i went for a new palio few years back. Apart from the poor spare parts inventory at ASS, one thing which irritated me the most is the absolute lack of a competent mechanic even at the ASS across the length & breadth of an entire state (kerala). Ok now not too much of a breadth there. What i mean is, those guys across multiple ASS could not fix simple suspension related issues, God knows how they deal with engine, electricals & electronics.
I try to be the least biased when it comes to cars, but to date i have pulled back many from going for any fiats. People still ask me because the car is still with me and I like it but I loathe the company & service policies.
My billings at tata-fiat centers were absolutely ridiculous. I mean not the gross amount but how they divide the labour & parts. Just to cite a few examples. A clutch cylinder replacement includes separate billing for removal & re-fixing of the dash board, which itself is in the four digit range. A lock fixing issue (just putting back a lever that came loose in one of the doors) will involve separate charges for fixing the door locks as well as removal & re-fitting of door pads, count four of them and again you are in the four digit range.
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Old 10th December 2013, 10:22   #28
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Don't worry guys the new Punto's are zero niggle cars. So the one who wants to buy and the one who already booked be assured its one of the best hatch around. I am having 2012 Sports model done 46k not a single issue in car. The Car is amazing , amazes me everytime I drive her.
Feels sorry for the problem you faced but few of my friends own this 2009 punto but except the clutch issue never faced any issues till date, may be just yours one of the case.
And regarding part availability never faced any problem people just blown this issue out of the proportion .
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Old 10th December 2013, 10:30   #29
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Quite a pricey parts bin for a Punto. Quite the opposite of what I read in a car magazine where the parts bin was among the cheapest for Fiats. The Linea parts bin is supposed to be cheaper than a SX4. I guess the not so common parts that require attention are expensive. My previous car, a 9 year old Ford Ikon still had the original stalk control units. I am sure that changing it would cost quite a bit.

I doubt if Fiat India have done anything at all to improve service. Sure, they cut ties with TATA and that keeps the cab clan out but that is it. Spares and fast turn around for problem cars is still a major problem. Consistency across service stations are also a problem. This should not be the case considering you have just a couple of service outlets in each city. The way Fiat India have portrayed service experience on their website, they need to pull that banner down. I want that kind of service. Sure, it is no premium car but that is what Fiat India needs for a complete make over and to bring back customer confidence. Else, it is going to go the way it is. It also feels like Fiat India are a bigger problem. Its not enough if you start your own chain of sales and service outlets. As a company, you need to back them well. Read that as spares. Every single screw and part from the Production line required to build a car needs to be available at the service station. The customer should not have to wait for anything. This is the only way out for Fiat India. Can we send this post to Fiat India? Not that they may do much about it. How can we make them understand that owning a Fiat is all about an emotional connection with your car. This is the one link that is missing from the company.
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Old 10th December 2013, 11:15   #30
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Wrt parts, they seem to be the same. The only reasons I could think why they're doing this is :

1) To keep a control mechanism at Service Centers so parts aren't unnecessarily changed by ASC. (Could be)
2) FIAT is facing some kind of working capital crunch. (lol Unlikely)
3) They've hired an overtly thrifty CFO and uncaring COO who want to maximise ROI at any cost. (Possibly)

What else could be the reason for them to put customers even in metro's through hardship?

It'll be 1 year by March '14, and if these problems continue, it speaks of FIAT as a company. Hope they improve.

Edit : 4) Maybe things are being blown out of proportion, and maybe they've already improved.

Last edited by GrammarNazi : 10th December 2013 at 11:20.
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