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Old 29th September 2016, 17:31   #31
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Default Re: From a hot hatch to a HOTTER hatch : A pre-worshipped '02 Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
The car has been running on Shell HX7 10W-40 from the time I got it (rather, even before it). Honestly, this is the first time I heard about semi-synthetic not being preferred for the car.

..... the reason being the seals etc getting used to a particular grade of oil for a long time and then someone upgrading to higher viscosity oils may cause damage to the seals.
First of all, I really appreciate the time, effort and care that you are undertaking for the car - that is a quintessential trait of Fiat owners

Mine is Palio NV Sport 2004 model. I too switched over from the mineral to exactly the same Shell HX7 10W40 semi-synth a few weeks back ( http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post4052766 (What oil change interval do you adhere to?) )

And the latter part of your post appears to be true in my case - there is some oil covering on the side of the engine block. Am told that it is most likely because of hot oil emitting gases, which later condense on the engine; but, there could be some escaping through the oil seals also.

However, the semi-synth has made a lot of difference with regard to gear shift and the engine sound.
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Old 29th September 2016, 17:56   #32
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Default Re: From a hot hatch to a HOTTER hatch : A pre-worshipped '02 Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX

Nice thread here, loved to read something about the timeless Palio amongst all these modern thread. Its the definitely a whole of passion that keeps us (Fiat breed) running these cars. About the oil, not keen on using the regular Fiat Selenia fully synth oil? Its pretty good, I've been using it for the last 6 years now and its pretty cheap at some 6xx for a litre can.

I have the not so hot 1.2 variant of the 2005 NV Sport. Got it in 2010 pre-loved by another TBhpian.

Interested to know more about the Automech exhaust option you mentioned, my muffler is rusted along with the auxiliary pipe. Its close to 20K for parts alone if I get the OEM parts.

Last edited by praful : 29th September 2016 at 17:59.
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Old 29th September 2016, 22:39   #33
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Default Re: From a hot hatch to a HOTTER hatch : A pre-worshipped '02 Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX

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Originally Posted by vrprabhu View Post
First of all, I really appreciate the time, effort and care that you are undertaking for the car - that is a quintessential trait of Fiat owners....
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Originally Posted by praful View Post
...Nice thread here, loved to read something about the timeless Palio amongst all these modern thread. Its the definitely a whole of passion that keeps us (Fiat breed) running these cars...
Thanks guys, but I have to be honest - I am not a true blue Fiat fan! I (try to) keep my car(s) in top nick and that's how I like it.

The primary reason I went for this Palio was the re-sale price and then the whole condition of the car + the FTD factor. Found this better than the current crop of Fiats and hence took the plunge. If this didn't work out, the other option mostly would have been a pre-owned Baleno 1.6.

Over time I realised that this car can give the 8-10L cars of today, a solid run for money, on the performance / utility front.

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Originally Posted by praful View Post
...About the oil, not keen on using the regular Fiat Selenia fully synth oil? Its pretty good, I've been using it for the last 6 years now and its pretty cheap at some 6xx for a litre can...
The car was running Shell HX-7 when I bought it and I just thought of continuing it. My running average of 2-3K kms / year (you read it right) too doesn't really justify the extra bucks for fully synthetic oil.

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...Interested to know more about the Automech exhaust option you mentioned, my muffler is rusted along with the auxiliary pipe. Its close to 20K for parts alone if I get the OEM parts.
I didn't do a complete exhaust. It's just the part from mid to end what has been replaced. I kept the rest (headers etc) unchanged. I think the assembly had two mufflers (the end can and another one) and then the rest of the pipe. Cost me 7500/- if I recall correctly. Please do visit my link to the exhaust page as I can't seem to recollect much as of now.
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Old 30th September 2016, 00:20   #34
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Default Re: From a hot hatch to a HOTTER hatch : A pre-worshipped '02 Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX

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...Issues Reported:

1. A loud noise in my last drive (the car was idle for close to 3 weeks as I had my vacation. I thought it's either some belts / pulleys rubbing or a loose contact for the horn. It was so loud that people walking would look at the car what's the noise.

2. Stage 1 fan (low speed) doesn't work. This happened after the engine bay was water washed (me not being around)...
Both these happened as the bearing for the radiator fan was jammed. I tried to rotate the motor by hand after dismantling & it was quite tight.

A valeo make radiator fan was sourced by the mechanic's contact and it fit well. However, the resistor which I assumed was shot, was working perfectly.

Cost: 2000/- though initially he said 1800/- and gave the fan for a 1.2 which didn't fit. My sources from Kurla market told me about the availability of the fan @ 1500/- but didn't visit as my mechanic was interested in sourcing the stuff from his guy.

TD after the fixes:

The car is doing well in B2B traffic and the temperature needle stays @ 1/3rd of the gauge. This is how it was before, but recently, with the slow speed fan not kicking in, temperature would hover close to the half range (with A/C ON). Will be taking it for a longer & faster spin soon and am sure nothing will be wrong.

As usual, the car puts a smile on my face once the issues are rectified.

Quote:
...
3. The LH ORVM was broken by some low lives and I had replaced just the mirror (the internal adjustment cable was broken too) and a moron in an i10 hit my RH ORVM in his eagerness to overtake with 0 space and damaged the internal adjustment. Have asked to replace both...
Got the whole set on both sides replaced with OEM stuff.

Cost - 1300/- for a non-colored pair. However, it's matching my car's theme and hence I intend to keep it this way itself.

New pair of ORVMs

From a hot hatch to a HOTTER hatch : A pre-worshipped '02 Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX-wp_20160929_17_24_33_pro.jpg

Quote:
...4. Some sewage water was dripping on the right fender in my underground parking and have left white trails (one spot has paint damage) and might require a buffing. Am going to hold it for the time being. Someone had scratched the rear bumper too, from the middle to the left (passenger) side. This will have to wait a bit more as I may need to repaint the rear bumper, bonnet & RH fender along with the ORVMs; but nothing on priority...
The sewage water has damaged the paint I believe. Even a foam wash didn't remove it, so opted for the paint treatment. Though the guys have rubbed it off the body, I can still see the impressions of the drops. The details have been mentioned in the below post.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/mumbai...e-6-powai.html

Some of the injuries in it's life in Mumbai

Not sure when did I get these scratches but most of it has been erased with the recent paint treatment. However, there is a paint chip / crack which has been temporarily fixed with the insulation tape. Details in the above thread.

From a hot hatch to a HOTTER hatch : A pre-worshipped '02 Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX-wp_20160929_18_06_38_pro.jpg

A stupid private bus driver jammed a biker between his bus and my car. I had no choice but to move the car that much to release the bike handle.

From a hot hatch to a HOTTER hatch : A pre-worshipped '02 Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX-wp_20160929_18_17_50_pro.jpg

Pure Vandalism. This is pretty much the same time when the left ORVM was smashed and the cowl broken too.

From a hot hatch to a HOTTER hatch : A pre-worshipped '02 Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX-wp_20160929_18_27_27_pro.jpg

The (in)famous condensation issue

From a hot hatch to a HOTTER hatch : A pre-worshipped '02 Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX-wp_20160929_18_05_48_pro.jpg

Everytime the car is washed or driven in the rains, water condenses inside the headlight. Looks like this is another design fault in Palios. Not much of an issue as of now.

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 30th September 2016 at 00:33.
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Old 30th September 2016, 11:13   #35
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Default Re: From a hot hatch to a HOTTER hatch : A pre-worshipped '02 Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Everytime the car is washed or driven in the rains, water condenses inside the headlight. Looks like this is another design fault in Palios. Not much of an issue as of now.
Try opening up the headlight and let it dry completely in sunlight/any other heat source. And then fix it back once again. I have had this issue a few times, most of the times the cause is the headlight covers have not sealed properly.
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Old 30th September 2016, 11:20   #36
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Default Re: From a hot hatch to a HOTTER hatch : A pre-worshipped '02 Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX

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Originally Posted by praful View Post
Try opening up the headlight and let it dry completely in sunlight/any other heat source. And then fix it back once again. I have had this issue a few times, most of the times the cause is the headlight covers have not sealed properly.
It does dry out on it, depending on the usage / parking pattern. I am told that this is a design flaw and nothing can be done?

I'd prefer not to mess with such things as this rarely causes much of a problem. Plus, in monsoons, we'll probably have to do this everyday.

PS :: Do you have any pics of the leak points of the headlights?
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Old 30th September 2016, 11:27   #37
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Default Re: From a hot hatch to a HOTTER hatch : A pre-worshipped '02 Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
It does dry out on it, depending on the usage / parking pattern. I am told that this is a design flaw and nothing can be done?

I'd prefer not to mess with such things as this rarely causes much of a problem. Plus, in monsoons, we'll probably have to do this everyday.

PS :: Do you have any pics of the leak points of the headlights?
Unfortunately, this problem got solved a couple of years back so I don't have any pictures.

This is mostly a one time fix, if you don't want to remove the headlight an alternative approach is to remove the back cover and bulbs, then place a study lamp (if you have one of those old ones with a 60/100W bulb) and let the heat evaporate all the water vapour inside. Essentially this is trapped water vapour which will over time damage the reflector and bulbs. The drying out is only temporary, this is why its important to let the water vapour escape completely.

Not really a design flaw, its just a case of the back cover not sealing well or in a really bad case cracks in the headlight assembly causing water to seep in.
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Old 30th September 2016, 12:07   #38
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Default Re: From a hot hatch to a HOTTER hatch : A pre-worshipped '02 Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX

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Originally Posted by praful View Post
Not really a design flaw, its just a case of the back cover not sealing well or in a really bad case cracks in the headlight assembly causing water to seep in.
Exactly.

The headlight has two covers for changing the bulbs - one for low beam (bigger of the two) and a smaller one (for the high beam). The rubber gasket / beading inside these covers is more often than not the culprit - and the reason is that water from the bonnet drips directly on to the headlamp assembly.

It is just a press and remove cover. Taken them out and check the rubber gasket inside the cover. If it is torn or worn out, water will go in. Take adequate care while snapping the cover back on, by ensuring that it sits flush with the headlight assembly. A loose fitting back cover will cause the HL to get flooded!

There is one more thing to look out for - there is a small 'L' shaped rubber attachment to the (larger) cover. If this is part is missing, more often than not, water gets inside. (In fact this 'L' shaped thingy has a small plastic breath out vent - to ensure that water / vapour inside, if any, gets out and stops it from going in?)


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I'd prefer not to mess with such things as this rarely causes much of a problem. Plus, in monsoons, we'll probably have to do this everyday.
Hey, us t-bhpians are known to get their hands dirty and undertake a D-I-Y from time to time

There is a pain point here - water may cause the HL wire contacts to get rusted. So once in a while, it is good to open up and see in what condition the bulbs are...

One things that gets my goat is the flimsy wires on the HL assembly . Even my motorycle has thicker gauge wires for HL.....
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Old 30th September 2016, 15:31   #39
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Default Re: From a hot hatch to a HOTTER hatch : A pre-worshipped '02 Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
I have decided that there will probably be no Fiat in my garage again
Indeed ! This will be the last fiat in my garage as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
But the kind of support I get from Fiat'ians is very very heart warming. They take up my issues like their own and provide me solutions / contacts who can resolve issues.
Please direct me to the source for this support, I badly need some advice on my car. I do get some info from FMC but i would need more.



Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Logically, I don't find a reason why this can't be used in the car. Is it that people advise against using synthetic / semi-synthetic on an 'old' car with a lot of miles on it? In that case, I read this is the same for new age cars too, the reason being the seals etc getting used to a particular grade of oil for a long time and then someone upgrading to higher viscosity oils may cause damage to the seals.
I read that only a 1.6 rebuilt engine is recommended to use fully synthetic oil. But i guess the reason mentioned by you holds good. My car is due for service and let me try this oil.
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Old 30th September 2016, 15:45   #40
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Default Re: From a hot hatch to a HOTTER hatch : A pre-worshipped '02 Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX

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Originally Posted by Abhi_abarth View Post
...Please direct me to the source for this support, I badly need some advice on my car. I do get some info from FMC but i would need more...
1. There is a 'Palio Users Group' yahoo group. That's another splendid support framework we have. Try to add your id, you may please pass me the id as well and I'll put a note to the mods there to add you.

2. Check for the current threads - most of the guys have extensive experience and they'll guide you even from other locations.

3. If you have a Palio thread here, am sure Fiat'ians will be active on the thread as well.

If you need any help in Mumbai / Chennai, please do reach out. I have already listed most of them (if not all) in various posts / threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhi_abarth View Post
...I read that only a 1.6 rebuilt engine is recommended to use fully synthetic oil. But i guess the reason mentioned by you holds good. My car is due for service and let me try this oil.
I guess a rebuilt engine can be considered as a new engine and using fully synthetic from the beginning may not be a problem.

As I read from your last post, your car has done close to 70K kms. If it has run on mineral oil all the way, shifting to a higher grade oil may not be a good move. I'll request you to check with some experts (multiple references) before the oil change.

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 30th September 2016 at 15:47.
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Old 30th September 2016, 16:08   #41
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Default Re: From a hot hatch to a HOTTER hatch : A pre-worshipped '02 Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX

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Originally Posted by Abhi_abarth View Post
Please direct me to the source for this support, I badly need some advice on my car. I do get some info from FMC but i would need more.
Apart from PUG (Palio User Group on Yahoo), there was one more by fiat fans, IIRC.

But, check out this thread also - http://www.fiatforum.com/palio/

This is an international group, and I found some solutions to a few of my problems.

And you have a couple of t-bhpians and enthusiasts in Hyderabad itself - hillram, is one who needs no introduction to Fiat enthusiasts in Hyderabad (to me he is like a legend, with a fleet of Fiat cars).

There was also Raveendra, but haven't seen any new posts by him lately. He is active on other fiat forums, BTW.
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Old 30th September 2016, 18:22   #42
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Default Re: From a hot hatch to a HOTTER hatch : A pre-worshipped '02 Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX

Congratulations! I have actually driven this very car with the intention of buying it but however backed out as I wasn't too sure I could commit my time on its upkeep. It was nice to meet Ramesh and also drive the famed 1.6 litre hatch for the first time. Glad to know its in the hands of an enthusiast. Good luck and wish you many more miles!

PS: As for me - I ended up buying Tjet.

PPS: Apologies for not having seen that this thread was written in 2014, I guess I must have driven this before you eventually picked it up.

Last edited by sai_ace : 30th September 2016 at 18:25.
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Old 30th September 2016, 18:58   #43
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Default Re: From a hot hatch to a HOTTER hatch : A pre-worshipped '02 Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX

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Originally Posted by vrprabhu View Post
Hey, us t-bhpians are known to get their hands dirty and undertake a D-I-Y from time to time

There is a pain point here - water may cause the HL wire contacts to get rusted. So once in a while, it is good to open up and see in what condition the bulbs are...

One things that gets my goat is the flimsy wires on the HL assembly . Even my motorycle has thicker gauge wires for HL.....
Where there is a will, there is a way. I made my own relay kit using high quality components and ceramic holders. Worked really well with 100W bulbs for both low and high beams.

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Heck I even put in 210W lightbar in the front.

From a hot hatch to a HOTTER hatch : A pre-worshipped '02 Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX-img_20151205_0904212.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by praful View Post
This is mostly a one time fix, if you don't want to remove the headlight an alternative approach is to remove the back cover and bulbs, then place a study lamp (if you have one of those old ones with a 60/100W bulb) and let the heat evaporate all the water vapour inside. Essentially this is trapped water vapour which will over time damage the reflector and bulbs. The drying out is only temporary, this is why its important to let the water vapour escape completely.

Not really a design flaw, its just a case of the back cover not sealing well or in a really bad case cracks in the headlight assembly causing water to seep in.
I have a simpler method of getting rid of the moisture. Remove the high beam bulb and indicator/pilot bulbs. Stick a hair dryer into the high beam bulb hole and run it with low heat for 5 minutes. All the moisture will evaporate and escape through indicator/pilot holes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vrprabhu View Post

It is just a press and remove cover. Taken them out and check the rubber gasket inside the cover. If it is torn or worn out, water will go in. Take adequate care while snapping the cover back on, by ensuring that it sits flush with the headlight assembly. A loose fitting back cover will cause the HL to get flooded!
When you put back the cover, liberally apply fevibond ( not feviquik!!!) and put them back.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vrprabhu View Post
There is one more thing to look out for - there is a small 'L' shaped rubber attachment to the (larger) cover. If this is part is missing, more often than not, water gets inside. (In fact this 'L' shaped thingy has a small plastic breath out vent - to ensure that water / vapour inside, if any, gets out and stops it from going in?)
Yes this is very important. Its missing on 99% palios. Even the one which coems with palios is very bad in design.

I salvaged similar L shaped rubbers from a Pulsar 220 (praful...hint hint). they have a much better design and have a piece of foam at the end so that water splashing will not get in.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhi_abarth View Post
I read in other forums that a fully synth or semi-synth isn't recommended for 1.6 engines since they are decade old engines and prone for damage. My s10 is due for a service and i have used Motul mineral oil last time.
This is utter BS. I have always used full synthetic oil on both my palios and the difference is night and day. Heck I even use only the best fluids for my car and every bit makes a very visible difference.

These are the fluids that went into my palio.

From a hot hatch to a HOTTER hatch : A pre-worshipped '02 Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX-img_20140206_221809.jpg

From a hot hatch to a HOTTER hatch : A pre-worshipped '02 Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX-img_20150819_061900.jpg

If you didnt see any difference or experience oil loss, chances are you had a crappy engine to being with and using full synthetic oil just exposed it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vrprabhu View Post
Apart from PUG (Palio User Group on Yahoo), there was one more by fiat fans, IIRC.
I no longer have a fiat but I'm active at PUG. Help is always available when you ask

I have a huge thread in assembly area about my palio with all my fixes and over 250 photos. However I can't be bothered with making it live, atleast not here.

Last edited by SunnyBoi : 30th September 2016 at 19:17.
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Old 5th October 2016, 15:11   #44
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...Interested to know more about the Automech exhaust option you mentioned..
I just captured the exhaust sound output. Better video will follow as this was in the basement and I was alone.

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Old 6th March 2017, 10:04   #45
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Default Re: From a hot hatch to a HOTTER hatch : A pre-worshipped '02 Fiat Palio 1.6 GTX

The GTX is back to it's birth place and has started munching miles on a regular basis.

However, the frequent visits to the fuel station is a bit worrying - have to see whether it picks up a bit more efficiency as it's getting used daily. The car was running pretty lean in Mumbai with the onward journey being 0.5 kms and the backward journey at 3-4 kms. I used to see 6-7 kmpl during this time.

I have been noticing this issue (if I may call it) recently. I used to see that the temperature held around 1/3rd of the whole with AC ON previously. Without AC, it'd climb to around 2/3rd and would trigger the second stage fan and then cool down further.

However, I have been seeing that the car gets to 2/3rd with A/C ON in City traffic and also kind of nudge the 1/2 mark in stop & go traffic at times and then come down to 2/3rd. Thankfully, it has never breached the half mark or stayed close to that for a longer time.

Would like to know if this is normal or should I take it to the doc.

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 6th March 2017 at 10:06.
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