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Old 31st December 2008, 11:23   #136
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Well, we'll only know when Lexus actually comes to India. In the meanwhile, the response to this thread (Your definition of Build Quality) has been encouraging!
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Old 6th January 2009, 20:02   #137
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I am really surprised, they have been hailing the new c class as the turn around in Mercedes build quality and has been giving the 3 series a run for its money. Perhaps they have the older generation in India or perhaps the component quality is locally procured has not been on par. Really sucks.
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Old 7th January 2009, 11:41   #138
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Originally Posted by Raj1008 View Post
Perhaps they have the older generation in India or perhaps the component quality is locally procured has not been on par.
Nope. On both counts. My review is on the previous (and now discontinued) generation. Mercedes currently sells the same new generation in India as they do worldwide. Also, I don't expect too high a localisation content with such small volumes (150 - 250 cars a month).
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Old 9th January 2009, 02:58   #139
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Nope. On both counts. My review is on the previous (and now discontinued) generation. Mercedes currently sells the same new generation in India as they do worldwide. Also, I don't expect too high a localisation content with such small volumes (150 - 250 cars a month).
I researched this model last year since I was getting a good deal on a CPO sports coupe but I found alot of problems and there was no pattern. People had issues from ECU to tranny to engines to sensors. It was crazy. Even though I was leasing and had a full warranty for entire term I got nervous when the dealership (actually they are all MB owned here) didnt want to share service history, citing privacy laws. Yeh right.

The new C class has got good ratings though. It maybe a good idea to trade in your car for a new generation, would probably take a big hit on depreciated value though. Sigh. Hope you dont have more problems.
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Old 7th February 2009, 10:45   #140
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I'm now officially part of the German whining club. The Benz performed flawlessly until 40,000 kms (touched sometime last year). However, there onward, it's all been downhill. She has had 4 major part replacements in the last 9 - 10 months.....yup, Mercedes did offer some of them free while the others were heavily subsidised. But despite the goodwill gestures, I have spent nearly 2.0 lakhs on that car in less than a year!

Earlier this week, the engine bay was emitting a burning smell. Went to Auto Hangar who submitted a quote for 1.75 lakhs (flywheel & usual suspects) + 40,000 (engine mount change) + 35,000 (50K service). They gotta be nuts if they think I am going to spend another 2.5 lakhs on the car. That's like 16% of its market worth. Period.

1. I am damn cheesed off. A car that has only 50K on the odo doesn't have the right to fail frequently like this. When I pay 30 lakhs for a car, why can't I have the reliability of the 15 lakh car? After all, reliability is the key contributor to basic functionality.

2. Butttttttttttttttttttt I am giving the Benz a last chance. Car is on the way to an after-market specialist who has the star diagnostics system and is an auto engineer (alongwith his father).

Lets see what he has to say. If negative, I am getting rid of her. I simply don't have the time to waste on a non-performing asset. It is a rare situation where I'd sell a car before it completes 1.5 lakhs (never have in the last 10 years), but with the C220, I am not incurring a loss. Simply because it was a replacement of the C180 and I have paid a marginal differential amount.

P.S. : Shame on Mercedes to stop short of offering the phenomenal 5 year service / maintenance packages that its chief competitor - BMW - does!

P.P.S. : Its about time Lexus arrives to our shores. The Indian premium customer is in dire need of reliability + luxury!
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Old 7th February 2009, 13:12   #141
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It indeed is a shame for Mercedes that a 30L car is not half as reliable as 15L Japanese alternative, especially when the Accord too carried a distinct *thud* sound that most people seeking build quality are nuts about.
Compare the current scenario to what it was a little over 10 years ago, and I wonder if Mercedes is losing, or has probably lost its core values.

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Old 7th February 2009, 13:31   #142
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@GTO

Real shame to hear that mate.Its unbelievable,a Merc having so much trouble at 50k kms.You're absolutely right,if a 15 lakh sedan can give much better reliability then why not a Merc?You would expect that after paying 30 lakhs and above there would be no significant troubles at least for 1 lakh km.Real shocker to hear about your experience
Do let us know how the visit to the aftermarket guy pans out.All the best mate.
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Old 7th February 2009, 15:40   #143
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GTO
I am some what surprised to find that you have faced so much of problem with what still is a relatively new car and which has done not too many miles.
I own 3 mercs my self and the oldest (E280cdi) is now 2 years old and has never missed a single beat till now.
Do you have any idea if the mercs available in India has localised parts which is the cause of the problems you are facing? or are these the European parts? I was thinking of buying a new c class In India but having read this report I am now starting to have some doubts. BMW has never been an option for me so any idea how good the new A4 (the one available in India) is ?
I really hope that the problems you are facing pans out and you really enjoy a trouble free motoring that Mercs are made to deliver.
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Old 7th February 2009, 21:28   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manson View Post
especially when the Accord too carried a distinct *thud* sound that most people seeking build quality are nuts about.
Believe it or not, my Father is most keen on the Accord. I was telling the guys in the support forum....90% of the C's usage is backseat + chauffeur-driven trips. The Accord is larger, has a better back seat, far more room and will do this job much better. Plus, I don't have to worry about reliability for 10 years. The only downside is that the 10% that I take her on the highways / nights out, I will miss the driving dynamics.

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GTO
I am some what surprised to find that you have faced so much of problem with what still is a relatively new car and which has done not too many miles.
If our reviews + meetings with other Merc owners + Auto Hangar visits are anything to go by, I am not alone. I don't know of too many 3 - 4 year old Cs / Es / S' that are performing flawlessly. I am happy for you if your E is treating you well, but Mercedes is doing pretty badly in the UK / Europe quality surveys as well.
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Old 8th February 2009, 02:06   #145
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I am happy for you if your E is treating you well, but Mercedes is doing pretty badly in the UK / Europe quality surveys as well.
I don't know which survey you are taking about because in JD power league table for 2008 Merc E class was at 8th place with 5 star rating with over all CSI score of 84.2%. Merc C class was at 17th place with over all CSI score of 82.8% ( BMW 5 series was at 46th place, Audi A4 at 20th place and A6 at 22nd place.
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Old 8th February 2009, 12:27   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manson View Post
It indeed is a shame for Mercedes that a 30L car is not half as reliable as 15L Japanese alternative, especially when the Accord too carried a distinct *thud* sound that most people seeking build quality are nuts about.
Thud may have hardly anything to do with `build' quality. Build quality does not mean doors only. It most probably means door thickness and has nothing to do with how reliable the other 20-25,000 parts are. Tata trucks make an even bigger thud noise, but very few people accuse Tata (and Skoda??) of making vehicles with great build quality.
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Old 8th February 2009, 12:59   #147
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the swift has flimsy sheet metal, but a well damped ( as in sound damping) door shuts with a proper thud
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Old 8th February 2009, 13:11   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vasudeva View Post
Thud may have hardly anything to do with `build' quality. Build quality does not mean doors only. It most probably means door thickness and has nothing to do with how reliable the other 20-25,000 parts are. Tata trucks make an even bigger thud noise, but very few people accuse Tata (and Skoda??) of making vehicles with great build quality.
I think this "thud" is a t-bhp thing. I have never heard of evaluating a
car by it's "thud" anywhere else.
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Old 8th February 2009, 13:20   #149
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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
I think this "thud" is a t-bhp thing. I have never heard of evaluating a
car by it's "thud" anywhere else.
Sorry to be OT, but this thud thing is also an AutoRag (sorry Autocar) and other rag sheet thing, where some European cars are promoted as giving more thud, and giving 10% more metal for 2X price. These same rags promote or mistake thud as `premium'.
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Old 8th February 2009, 13:32   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no_limit View Post
I don't know which survey you are taking about because in JD power league table for 2008 Merc E class was at 8th place with 5 star rating with over all CSI score of 84.2%. Merc C class was at 17th place with over all CSI score of 82.8% ( BMW 5 series was at 46th place, Audi A4 at 20th place and A6 at 22nd place.
You will appreciate that we are discussing quality and reliability, factors which it is too early to gauge a 1 year old E Class on. Plus, while we are discussing quality / reliability ONLY, the power league table includes things such as brand value, performance, comfort, features etc. etc. which, we agree, Mercedes scores highly on. I reiterate : The point of this discussion is RELIABILITY.

Some facts WRT quality / reliability of Mercedes:

1. You bought your car in 2005, correct? Here is an excerpt from JD 2005:

Quote:
However, there are notable exceptions, not least the Mercedes E-Class. It finishes second bottom in this class and barely makes the top 100 overall. Worse still for Mercedes, the C-Class finishes only two places above the E in this sector.
Source

2. In 2006:

Quote:
In the last JD Power survey Mercedes ranked a dismal 21st, while in the past three years it has tumbled from fourth to 10th in the What Car? Reliability Index.
Source

3. BTW I respect Consumer Reports FAR MORE than JD Quality. Reasoning? CR does NOT accept any funding / advertising / income from the auto industry, unlike JD, and very much like Team-BHP itself.

In the Consumer Reports Brand Reliability 2008 rankings, Mercedes ranked SECOND LAST of ALL BRANDS. And in 2007, Mercedes scored ZERO on CR's recommendations. Simply put, CR could not recommend a SINGLE Mercedes model.

Quote:
Some European automakers, particularly Mercedes-Benz, had sunk to the bottom of our predicted-reliability Ratings in recent years.
Quote:
Among the least reliable used cars ranked by CR: The MB SL, SLK, CLK, CLS, E Class sedan, R-Class, M Class.
Source

4. And the most important of the lot - Team-BHPs own ownership surveys show an overwhelming majority of owners dissatisfied with the reliability of their cars. Not a single model was ranked even average for reliability.

We'd really have to be naive to ignore Mercedes' several quality problems over the past 7 - 8 years.

Quote:

Thud may have hardly anything to do with `build' quality. Build quality does not mean doors only. It most probably means door thickness and has nothing to do with how reliable the other 20-25,000 parts are. Tata trucks make an even bigger thud noise, but very few people accuse Tata (and Skoda??) of making vehicles with great build quality.
Well said. Related Discussion (Your definition of Build Quality)
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