Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Team-BHP Reviews > Long-Term Ownership Reviews


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 8th February 2009, 14:57   #151
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Birmingham, U.K, Jaipur (India)
Posts: 72
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

[quote=GTO;1162917] You will appreciate that we are discussing quality and reliability, factors which it is too early to gauge a 1 year old E Class on.
I think the latest face lifted version is now almost over 3 years old (Introduced in July 06)
Some facts WRT quality / reliability of Mercedes:
1. You bought your car in 2005, correct? :
I bought the car in Aug 2006. Its the current face lifted version. The same version I quoted the JD power 2008 report for.I agree with you that the previous version (05) had its issues with electricals and Merc's cost cutting drive which IMO they managed to sort in the current one.

3. BTW I respect Consumer Reports FAR MORE than JD Quality. Reasoning? CR does NOT accept any funding / advertising / income from the auto industry, unlike JD, and very much like Team-BHP itself.

Its a matter of personal choice and in all these years JD has become as an industry bench mark. More over if independent surveys are to be considered then also the most trusted one in U.K (Which survey) ranks all the mercs highly on all the parameters with E and S being in the top 3 slots in their respective class and highly recommended.

4. And the most important of the lot - Team-BHPs own ownership surveys show an overwhelming majority of owners dissatisfied with the reliability of their cars. Not a single model was ranked even average for reliability.
Well In my experience as a current owner of 3 mercs, I have to say that I have never ever experienced any problem with reliability. Moreover I think that Team-BHPs surveys and meets you referred to, primarily are held in India.
Is there a possibility that Mercs are not performing reliably in Indian conditions where as they are proving a dependable chariot in European conditions?
no_limit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2009, 16:55   #152
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,175
Thanked: 128 Times
Default

[quote=no_limit;1162978]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Is there a possibility that Mercs are not performing reliably in Indian conditions where as they are proving a dependable chariot in European conditions?
Could be?. But why alone India, have Mercedes proved to be reliable long termers in US conditions. Could be that Europeans are a different lot, and as is said for Europe that there `the customer is always wrong'/
vasudeva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2009, 21:31   #153
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,748
Thanked: 89,367 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by no_limit View Post
I agree with you that the previous version (05) had its issues with electricals and Merc's cost cutting drive which IMO they managed to sort in the current one.
If Mercedes themselves are to be believed, the real improvements started with the new S, then C and the all-new E (just around the corner). But tell that to the owner of a prominent Benz dealership in Mumbai who had to truck his W221 S Class back from a Panchgani holiday weekend.

Quote:
JD has become as an industry bench mark.
Correct. An industry benchmark, while Consumer Reports is the consumer benchmark in the largest automotive market of the world.

Quote:
More over if independent surveys are to be considered then also the most trusted one in U.K (Which survey) ranks all the mercs highly on all the parameters with E and S being in the top 3 slots in their respective class and highly recommended.
Hmmm, Which? sounds interesting. I never knew about this brand of reviewers. Are they good? Any excerpt from their articles?

Quote:
I have to say that I have never ever experienced any problem with reliability.
Glad your experience worked out. However, I can assure you that you're part of the minority.

Quote:
Moreover I think that Team-BHPs surveys and meets you referred to, primarily are held in India. Is there a possibility that Mercs are not performing reliably in Indian conditions where as they are proving a dependable chariot in European conditions?
For one, the cars in India have almost no level of localisation. Mercs are near 95% imported (save for tyres, battery etc.). Second, Indian driving conditions are just as nice / harsh as I have seen in many other parts of the world. Lastly, even in the United States, Mercedes ranked at the bottom of the pile in 2008!

I really don't understand this big deal about "Indian conditions". When built-to-a-cost CHEAP Jap & Korean hatchbacks do just as well, whatever happens to the over-engineering Germans? Plus, like I said, Indian conditions are just as harsh / smooth as that in many other countries.
GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2009, 22:02   #154
BHPian
 
Atlblkz06's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 166
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

Nice review.

A heavy (yet communicative) steering feel is something many enthusiasts crave for. I certainly love love that of my car. However, many expect an ultra-smooth over-assisted steering feel from the MB since it's a luxury car, and maybe that's why your wife doesn't like the MB? Then again, women's choices cannot be qualified or quantified with logic haha.

Going back to the original posts - it looks like the entire Goodyear F1 line is just sub-par. I have a set of Goodyear F1 Supercars and they transmit a TON of road noise. The fronts aren't worn so I'll be replacing the rears with another GY set just to stay consistent, but I'll be switching to Michelin PS2s next.
Atlblkz06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th February 2009, 10:57   #155
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,175
Thanked: 128 Times
Default

[quote=no_limit;1162978]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
3. BTW I respect Consumer Reports FAR MORE than JD Quality. Reasoning? CR does NOT accept any funding / advertising / income from the auto industry, unlike JD, and very much like Team-BHP itself.

Its a matter of personal choice and in all these years JD has become as an industry bench mark. More over if independent surveys are to be considered then also the most trusted one in U.K (Which survey) ranks all the mercs highly on all the parameters with E and S being in the top 3 slots in their respective class and highly recommended.
OK, even if we take JD Power, their US data for 3-year vehicle dependability survey (VDS) shows Merc below the industry average in 2008, but slightly above it in 2007, and again below in 2006, 2005, and 2004. 2004 data means cars from 2001-03.Thus, from this decade, Merc. has been below the industry average. In 2008, Lexus was no. 1 in the industry and no 1 for luxury segment. In luxury cars, Merc trailed Lexus, Mercury, Cadillac, Acura, BMW, Porsche, Infiniti, and Audi. Which else luxury brand is there. of course, it beat Volvo.
vasudeva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th February 2009, 11:12   #156
Senior - BHPian
 
srishiva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 3,580
Thanked: 823 Times
Default

One of the reasons luxury cars suffer from reliability surveys is the higher expectation. But then if Lexus can do it so well, there is no excuse for Europeans.
srishiva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2009, 11:08   #157
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,748
Thanked: 89,367 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
One of the reasons luxury cars suffer from reliability surveys is the higher expectation.
Is day to day reliability / functionality a high expectation? That's the most basic requirement....whether you are buying an 800 or a Rolls Royce!
GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2009, 11:30   #158
Senior - BHPian
 
DieselFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,570
Thanked: 233 Times
Default

I agree. Reliability is the basic requirement of any car now-a-days. We are not talking of 1950s. in the 21st century if the car doesn't run reliably for 2L+ km then it is not worth its salt. Ideally one should not face any breakdowns. regular maintenance should keep the car running for at least 2L kms without any issues. Merc/BMW/Audi etc should run for 3L kms without any issues. that is the expectation people today have on cars. I have read in TDICLUB(A VW Forum) that VW Diesel cars run easily for 500,000 miles without any issues.
DieselFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2009, 11:40   #159
BHPian
 
Gooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Guwahati
Posts: 347
Thanked: 65 Times
Default

The fact that Mercedes-Benz cars have serious quality-reliability issues is no longer a secret. I think it has to do with corporate ego and complacency that Mercedes-Benz has because of its 'blue blood'.

But times are changing now; it can no longer play the ostrich. BMW is already giving the three-pointed star a run for its money, especially in India. So is Audi. This had to happen; BMW and Audi's competition was always with Mercedes-Benz. While they made a conscious effort to connect to their customres, LISTEN to them and retain them, Mercedes-Benz, sadly, thought they could keep cashing-in on the star for eternity. Sad.

Reminds me of the car rental company Avis' ad campaign years back. It said something to this effect - Because we are the second best, we try all the more harder.

Post EDITED since it contained various [FONT], [COLOR] and [SIZE] tags.
Posting with such text formatting should be avoided on Team-BHP as it is inconvenient for members to read post.
Kindly go through Announcements section before proceeding.

Thanking You for your anticipated co-operation

The Team-BHP Support

Last edited by Jaggu : 11th February 2009 at 12:00. Reason: Font tags
Gooney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2009, 13:51   #160
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Birmingham, U.K, Jaipur (India)
Posts: 72
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
If Mercedes themselves are to be believed, the real improvements started with the new S, then C and the all-new E (just around the corner). But tell that to the owner of a prominent Benz dealership in Mumbai who had to truck his W221 S Class back from a Panchgani holiday weekend.

Correct. An industry benchmark, while Consumer Reports is the consumer benchmark in the largest automotive market of the world.

I feel the best gauge of a consumer benchmark is the residual value of a used car and here also the Mercs has the best residual values among its peers in UK. (as per What car ?)

Hmmm, Which? sounds interesting. I never knew about this brand of reviewers. Are they good? Any excerpt from their articles?
Sure, I can email you the link or scanned articles.(not sure if putting here might cause some copyright conflict)
Indian driving conditions are just as nice / harsh as I have seen in many other parts of the world.
Do you honestly believe that driving conditions/traffic sense/roads in India can be compared to the ones in Europe (UK,Germany etc)

I really don't understand this big deal about "Indian conditions".
My Reference to Indian condition is wrt the kind of roads we have, the stop go traffic, heat, pollution,traffic sense and our total disdain for traffic laws. Its not meant to be disrespectful in anyway In fact I on a personal note always look forward to driving in India on my visits
[quote=vasudeva;1165225]
Quote:
Originally Posted by no_limit View Post

OK, even if we take JD Power, their US data for 3-year vehicle dependability survey (VDS) shows Merc below the industry average in 2008, but slightly above it in 2007,
That was exactly my point about a car performing differently in different driving conditions and same so called "Industry funded" survey ranking it differently under different driving conditions (read country) Could anybody please tell me why is Merc showing poorly in US and/or India where as they are performing much better in European survey ?
no_limit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2009, 15:37   #161
BHPian
 
sanjayatarizona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: "God's own Shaap"
Posts: 352
Thanked: 5 Times
Default

[quote=no_limit;1166946]
Quote:
Originally Posted by vasudeva View Post
Could anybody please tell me why is Merc showing poorly in US and/or India where as they are performing much better in European survey ?

Not sure about Mercs performance in Europe, but Autobild, Germany has rated Merc and also for that matter BMW quite some way down the charts.
These are for vehicles between 3 and 7 years old, based on 7 criteria:
a customer satisfaction survey; Manufacturer recalls; TÜV reports; a vehicle durability test; AutoBild's "trouble mailbox"; a garage test; and Warranty policy terms & conditions.

The Japs still rule.

Ranking:
Toyota
Honda & Mazda
Opel
Hyundai
Mitsubishi
Audi, Mercedes & Nissan
BMW & Volvo
Suzuki
Skoda & Smart
Kia & Volkswagen
Seat
Ford
Fiat
Citroen & Renault
Peugeot

SOURCE:AUTOBILD
sanjayatarizona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2009, 16:27   #162
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,175
Thanked: 128 Times
Default

[quote=sanjayatarizona;1167144]

The previous quote is not attributable to me. In fact, I was quoting someone else.
vasudeva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2009, 16:34   #163
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,175
Thanked: 128 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by no_limit View Post
That was exactly my point about a car performing differently in different driving conditions and same so called "Industry funded" survey ranking it differently under different driving conditions (read country) Could anybody please tell me why is Merc showing poorly in US and/or India where as they are performing much better in European survey ?
Sorry but I think it was perhaps you that suggested that JD Power is the `industry benchmark' and that was what I quoted. Even more credible for US consumers is Consumer Reports.

Now all these may make mistakes but for a maker to be mediocre in 2-3 big and relatively independent surveys is an implication that cannot be dismissed.
vasudeva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2009, 19:59   #164
BHPian
 
GTO - Touring's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 713
Thanked: 13 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlblkz06 View Post
Nice review.

A heavy (yet communicative) steering feel is something many enthusiasts crave for. I certainly love love that of my car.
I absolutely love the steering feel at high speed!

Quote:
I feel the best gauge of a consumer benchmark is the residual value of a used car
Lure of the badge, I'd say. Whatever Jurgen Schrempp has done to Mercedes since he took over in the mid-nineties (grabbing suppliers by the throat et all), the three pointed star is still just that. I do agree that Mercs have great resale, especially the diesels. Good resale is also a component of Mercedes controlling the second hand market. But the lure of the badge surpasses everything else.

Quote:
Do you honestly believe that driving conditions/traffic sense/roads in India can be compared to the ones in Europe (UK,Germany etc)

My Reference to Indian condition is wrt the kind of roads we have, the stop go traffic, heat, pollution,traffic sense and our total disdain for traffic laws.
Traffic sense does not affect a cars reliability. As for road conditions, a city like Boston - based on the famed east coast in the States - has roads just as terrible as Mumbai. My 220 spends 90% of its time in & around South Mumbai and the rest on highways, some of which are pretty well laid out (Bombay - Pune, Bombay - Goa, Bombay - Nasik). Lastly, I don't see why a supposedly "heavily engineering" car should fail on roads that cheap Japs & Korean cars handle just fine. Why, even the W124 has had a far better reliability run than the new gen Mercs.

Quote:
Could anybody please tell me why is Merc showing poorly in US and/or India where as they are performing much better in European survey ?
Not really! Sanjay has just posted the AutoBild results (a german publication!) and if you look at the What Car? survey for 2007, Mercedes is below even brands like Citroen, Rover & Peugeot : Linky.

These surveys notwithstanding, I trust consumer reports the most. And in the largest car market of the world, Mercedes couldn't do better than 2nd last! That's saying a plenty lot.
GTO - Touring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th February 2009, 19:39   #165
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Sahil's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 5,202
Thanked: 2,094 Times
Default

GTO, glad you found a good after-market chap to fix her up.
What's the update you have recieved from them? And where in Mumbai is he located?
I hope you are getting the 50k service done there along with the other repairs.
Sahil is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Abominable (Skoda) Yeti *UPDATE* 20,000Kms Update on Pg.14 SushilBajpai Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 281 8th December 2016 16:08
Mercedes C220 CDI 40000Kms Report Mugen_Power Long-Term Ownership Reviews 9 28th October 2014 22:00
Mercedes C-Class AMG Edition (C250 CDI). EDIT: Now "Edition C" for the C220 CDI parrys The Indian Car Scene 48 15th November 2013 17:29
OHC 1.5 EXi AT : Long Term Ownership Report UPDATE: NOW 95,000kms Dippy Long-Term Ownership Reviews 98 8th June 2013 14:49
Mercedes C220 CDI - Initial Report GTO Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 78 7th May 2006 14:44


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 16:15.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks