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Old 26th January 2018, 17:12   #76
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Default Re: Toyota Corolla: Our pre-owned workhorse

Many parts fail suddenly. It could be a loose connection, a gone fuse, a rat chewed up the wire or a bad pump - anything.
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Old 26th January 2018, 17:20   #77
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Default Re: Toyota Corolla: Our pre-owned workhorse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swapnil4585 View Post
Today morning, I was all ready to go to office, only to find that the car did not start. The battery is new (3 months old), all other appliances are working fine. It's just that the starter motor isn't getting enough charge. In my opinion,

1. The problem is with the starter motor (but how could it go bad all of a sudden?)

2. The battery has a problem in as much as it is discharged and needs either replacement or service.

Note - Can't hear the "click" sound that one should hear, in order to conclude that the battery is bad.
This is unlikely to be the fuel pump as the engine is not cranking. Have you tried switching on the headlamps? Are they bright or dim?

What you describe are symptoms of a flat battery OR a blown fuse.

Please check:

a) Both battery terminals are clean and fitted on tight
b) Fuses AM2 and IG2 and IG2 #2 under the bonnet.

If the fuses and clamps check out ok, check the battery. If you have a multi-meter check voltage across the +ve and -ve terminals. It should be about 12.6 volts. If it is lower than 12.2 it wont start the car.

Most batteries have a device called a 'magic eye' near the -ve terminal. It should be green.

If red/silver (light colour) call Exide service and have them check it for you. They can jump start the car. I recommend suggest a bench charge if the battery is flat.

PS - The fuel pump is expensive.

Last edited by R2D2 : 26th January 2018 at 17:22.
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Old 26th January 2018, 18:02   #78
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Default Re: Toyota Corolla: Our pre-owned workhorse

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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
This is unlikely to be the fuel pump as the engine is not cranking. Have you tried switching on the headlamps? Are they bright or dim?

What you describe are symptoms of a flat battery OR a blown fuse.
Have not checked headlamps, but will check them as soon as I reach home. The music system is working fine.

Quote:
Please check:

a) Both battery terminals are clean and fitted on tight
b) Fuses AM2 and IG2 and IG2 #2 under the bonnet.

If the fuses and clamps check out ok, check the battery. If you have a multi-meter check voltage across the +ve and -ve terminals. It should be about 12.6 volts. If it is lower than 12.2 it wont start the car.

Most batteries have a device called a 'magic eye' near the -ve terminal. It should be green.

If red/silver (light colour) call Exide service and have them check it for you. They can jump start the car. I recommend suggest a bench charge if the battery is flat.

PS - The fuel pump is expensive.
I keep the terminals clean, and clamps tightly fitted as a practice. So would rule out this as a cause. Would check the fuses and then the battery.

In no way, would I want the pump too be bad though.
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Old 26th January 2018, 18:28   #79
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Default Re: Toyota Corolla: Our pre-owned workhorse

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Originally Posted by Swapnil4585 View Post
In no way, would I want the pump too be bad though.
When you turn the key, does the engine crank?
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Old 26th January 2018, 18:30   #80
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Originally Posted by Swapnil4585 View Post
Have not checked headlamps, but will check them as soon as I reach home. The music system is working fine.
The music system does not draw enough current to test the battery. Only the starter and headlamps do.

The headlamps should come on at normal brightness. If the lamps dim within few seconds means the battery is flat.

A quick battery health check - switch on headlamps and start the car. They should dim but not go out. But don't do this as a matter of practice. Only very occasionally.

I always switch off all electrical loads including the headlamps, stereo, AC blower etc before cranking the engine.

Quote:
Would check the fuses and then the battery. In no way, would I want the pump too be bad though.
The underside of the fuse box cover has the fuse locations.

I doubt it is the pump as the engine is not cranking. But on the topic of the pump nothing goes wrong with it unless one drives with very low fuel or an empty tank which causes the pump to run dry. This goes for any modern car - never let the tank and thereby the pump run dry. Always fill at about 1/4th tank OR certainly when the low fuel indicator comes on.
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Old 26th January 2018, 19:21   #81
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Default Toyota Corolla: Our pre-owned workhorse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swapnil4585 View Post
My car won't start, all of a sudden



Today morning, I was all ready to go to office, only to find that the car did not start. The battery is new (3 months old), all other appliances are working fine. It's just that the starter motor isn't getting enough charge. In my opinion,



1. The problem is with the starter motor (but how could it go bad all of a sudden?)



2. The battery has a problem in as much as it is discharged and needs either replacement or service.



Note - Can't hear the "click" sound that one should hear, in order to conclude that the battery is bad.

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I hope only the battery has drained. When you get your battery checked, Please make sure you ask an electrician to check for current leak.
Never heard of fuel pump issues with petrol Toyota's in India.
Also where did you fill up fuel last time?
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Old 26th January 2018, 19:41   #82
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Default Re: Toyota Corolla: Our pre-owned workhorse

Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
When you turn the key, does the engine crank?
Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
I doubt it is the pump as the engine is not cranking. But on the topic of the pump nothing goes wrong with it unless one drives with very low fuel or an empty tank which causes the pump to run dry. This goes for any modern car - never let the tank and thereby the pump run dry. Always fill at about 1/4th tank OR certainly when the low fuel indicator comes on.
Came home just now. Switched on the headlamps, fog lamps. They started bright and remained bright. Blew the horn when the lights were on and started music. No dimming of them whatsoever. So flat battery safely ruled out.

Then I cranked the engine for a second, it did not turn over. The next time, I cranked it for little longer. And I heard a big sound from the starter motor area. I guess that something is wrong in the motor, as if something is stuck in it. Also felt from the sound, that the engine is trying to turn over, but not getting enough current.

As for the fuel pump, can you tell me where the pump in the Altis is located? I shall try to fold down the rear seat bench and try to hear the pump when someone else shall crank the car. Like you and honeybee, I am zeroing in on the pump, along with the starter motor.

Interestingly, there had been three consecutive occasions where the fuel level was low enough to turn that low fuel light on (not the warning), before I filled petrol. I think I may pay the price for knowingly committing this mistake of keeping fuel level low.

What next for the pump?
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Old 26th January 2018, 19:56   #83
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Default Re: Toyota Corolla: Our pre-owned workhorse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swapnil4585 View Post
Came home just now. Switched on the headlamps, fog lamps. They started bright and remained bright. Blew the horn when the lights were on and started music. No dimming of them whatsoever. So flat battery safely ruled out.

Then I cranked the engine for a second, it did not turn over. The next time, I cranked it for little longer. And I heard a big sound from the starter motor area. I guess that something is wrong in the motor, as if something is stuck in it. Also felt from the sound, that the engine is trying to turn over, but not getting enough current.
Well, looks like your battery is ok. Next step according to me is the starter motor. It could be the motor itself, its relay or the 'Bendix'/pinion. I strongly suggest you take it to an ASC. Don't use non genuine parts for any starter motor repair.

Quote:
As for the fuel pump, can you tell me where the pump in the Altis is located? I shall try to fold down the rear seat bench and try to hear the pump when someone else shall crank the car. Like you and honeybee, I am zeroing in on the pump, along with the starter motor.

Interestingly, there had been three consecutive occasions where the fuel level was low enough to turn that low fuel light on (not the warning), before I filled petrol. I think I may pay the price for knowingly committing this mistake of keeping fuel level low.

What next for the pump?
I have serious doubts if its the fuel pump. A fuel pump failure means the engine will crank/turn over but not start due to lack of fuel. And once again be mindful of the fuel levels. A replacement with labour will be about 15-20K if not more.

Normally the fuel pump can be accessed/removed from under the back seat. I haven't seen it for myself so you may want to approach a skilled tech. You should hear a very soft whine (I can hear it) when you turn the key from ACC to ON and all the "Christmas lights" come on. It's probably the pump switching on to build pressure in the fuel lines prior to the engine being cranked.

Let us know how it goes.

Last edited by R2D2 : 26th January 2018 at 19:58.
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Old 26th January 2018, 19:59   #84
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Default Re: Toyota Corolla: Our pre-owned workhorse

If the engine is cranking but not starting, I would suspect the fuel lines, pump, filter first.

Just to confirm, the car has enough fuel?

The pump is usually located inside the fuel tank.
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Old 26th January 2018, 20:03   #85
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Default Re: Toyota Corolla: Our pre-owned workhorse

Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
If the engine is cranking but not starting, I would suspect the fuel lines, pump, filter first.

Just to confirm, the car has enough fuel?

The pump is usually located inside the fuel tank.
The starter motor hesitates to turn the engine over. There's a loud sound when he attempts this, probably a starter motor issue.
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Old 27th January 2018, 13:17   #86
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Default Re: Toyota Corolla: Our pre-owned workhorse

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
It could be the motor itself, its relay or the 'Bendix'/pinion. I strongly suggest you take it to an ASC. Don't use non genuine parts for any starter motor repair.

Let us know how it goes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
If the engine is cranking but not starting, I would suspect the fuel lines, pump, filter first.

Just to confirm, the car has enough fuel?

The pump is usually located inside the fuel tank.
Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
The starter motor hesitates to turn the engine over. There's a loud sound when he attempts this, probably a starter motor issue.
It indeed turns out to be a starter motor and belt issue. Before proceeding towards the fuel pump, I opened the hood, punched the starter motor with my palm and tried starting the car, as a last try. The car started, although it made that big sound again. I am sure that the motor and the belt need some attention.

Another observation is that, I could smell a lot of petrol after opening the hood. Does it mean that the pump is fine and is sending the fuel in the engine, but the injectors are clogged?

I have shot a video of the sound in my phone and want to upload it. However it is in mp4 format, hence not getting attached. Next, how to repair the motor and clean the injectors?
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Old 27th January 2018, 13:39   #87
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Default Re: Toyota Corolla: Our pre-owned workhorse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swapnil4585 View Post
It indeed turns out to be a starter motor and belt issue. Before proceeding towards the fuel pump, I opened the hood, punched the starter motor with my palm and tried starting the car, as a last try. The car started, although it made that big sound again. I am sure that the motor and the belt need some attention.
You mean you gave the motor a hard knock and the engine started as in fired up? I think the motor pinion is an issue. The pinion has not retracted and is stuck to the flywheel. The good thing is this issue is not too expensive to repair compared to the fuel pump. Sometimes a hard tap with the plastic handle of a screw driver or a rubber mallet may help to free it from the flywheel. Do not use a hammer or other metal tool.

Why do you believe the belt is an issue? That video you talk about would help.

Quote:
Another observation is that, I could smell a lot of petrol after opening the hood. Does it mean that the pump is fine and is sending the fuel in the engine, but the injectors are clogged?
Engine would be flooded if it cranks but does not fire up as fuel will be supplied to the cylinders.

Quote:
I have shot a video of the sound in my phone and want to upload it. However it is in mp4 format, hence not getting attached. Next, how to repair the motor and clean the injectors?
Upload to Dropbox or other Cloud drive and share the link. Or else, compress it using zip or rar utility (max 20 MB file size) and upload. A video with the sound would be very helpful in diagnosis.

Whatever be the cause you're looking at a trip to the ASC or FNG for final diagnosis and repair. If the pinion is stuck I strongly suggest you dont drive the car as it will ruin the starter motor This part is also expensive.

Get a tow truck better still a flat bed truck to have the car taken to the workshop. ASCs can depute a tech to visit your premises for an initial assessment.

Last edited by R2D2 : 27th January 2018 at 13:45.
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Old 27th January 2018, 14:12   #88
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Default Re: Toyota Corolla: Our pre-owned workhorse

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Originally Posted by Swapnil4585 View Post
Another observation is that, I could smell a lot of petrol after opening the hood. Does it mean that the pump is fine and is sending the fuel in the engine, but the injectors are clogged?
Yes, as R2D2 said, the pump is fine and ao are the injectors.

Afain, seconding his opinion get the car towed to a good FNG or the ASC to get the necessary work done.
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Old 27th January 2018, 20:18   #89
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Default Re: Toyota Corolla: Our pre-owned workhorse

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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
You mean you gave the motor a hard knock and the engine started as in fired up?

Why do you believe the belt is an issue? That video you talk about would help.
Yes, I hit the motor with my palm and the engine started. I started the car thrice today after a gap of four hours each. Every time it made that weird sound from the motor area. I think that the belt is worn out and needs to be replaced. The pinion should be the source of the sound and issue.

Quote:
Get a tow truck better still a flat bed truck to have the car taken to the workshop. ASCs can depute a tech to visit your premises for an initial assessment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
Yes, as R2D2 said, the pump is fine and ao are the injectors.

Afain, seconding his opinion get the car towed to a good FNG or the ASC to get the necessary work done.
Have booked an appointment on Monday. Will be asking them to inspect the starter motor and replace the belt (purely out of my assessment).

It has been my practice to keep on driving till the low fuel light come up, and then fill the fuel. I do this because that helps to use all the previously filled fuel, and I get to know about the quality of the freshly filled fuel. I used to do this in my earlier car, the Indigo, and her pump never gave me any problems in the ten years of my ownership. I think that practice may not suit the Altis.

Consequentially, would you two suggest me to take a look at the fuel pump / lines, injectors and spark plugs too? Though a fuel pump is not a part to be serviced, is it advisable to get the pump serviced?
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Old 27th January 2018, 20:35   #90
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Default Re: Toyota Corolla: Our pre-owned workhorse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swapnil4585 View Post
Yes, I hit the motor with my palm and the engine started. I started the car thrice today after a gap of four hours each. Every time it made that weird sound from the motor area. I think that the belt is worn out and needs to be replaced. The pinion should be the source of the sound and issue.
If you believe the belt is a goner by all means replace it. But just have it checked by the ASC. Worn out belts generally squeal loudly when starting the engine or when the AC is switched on ie whenever load is applied.

From what you have told me so far I think all your car needs is a starter motor inspection and service.

Quote:
It has been my practice to keep on driving till the low fuel light come up, and then fill the fuel. I do this because that helps to use all the previously filled fuel, and I get to know about the quality of the freshly filled fuel. I used to do this in my earlier car, the Indigo, and her pump never gave me any problems in the ten years of my ownership. I think that practice may not suit the Altis.
As I said, it's better to be safe than sorry when it comes to expensive parts which includes the fuel pump. Filling when the warning light comes on is acceptable but only as an exception not the rule.

Quote:
Consequentially, would you two suggest me to take a look at the fuel pump / lines, injectors and spark plugs too? Though a fuel pump is not a part to be serviced, is it advisable to get the pump serviced?
The pump is not a serviceable part. It is just replaced in case of a malfunction. So since the engine is starting that means the pump is functioning properly. Just leave it alone but make sure you do not let the tank run very low or dry.

Depending on your car's mileage your ASC service techs will advise you on what needs to be checked/inspected including plugs, injectors etc. Fuel pump/lines are left alone when they function properly i.e. no leaks. However, you may want to check the fuel filter checked and replaced if required. This is important if your travels take you on highways where petrol stations are known to adulterate fuel or have fuel with sediment.

PS - please have the technicians check the starter motor relay for proper functioning. It mounted on top of the housing.

Last edited by R2D2 : 27th January 2018 at 20:40. Reason: added PS
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