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Old 1st June 2010, 07:23   #106
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@SuMo, the core point I want to resolve is : when a/c is engaged, and I start from stand-still, the Sumo almost stalls. That is the amount of load that is coming in from the compressor. So the question, is how to resolve this.

I suspect that this load from the a/c compressor is being seen at all speeds, affecting driveability across the range. So may be if I can resolve this loading problem, the drive-ablility will be much better. Agree with you regarding the chilling. Reducing the gas quantity may not help in this case, IMO.

I am also discussing this with @dkamath, and checking up a couple of options on the a/c part. Will keep you posted.

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OT : SuMo, I had sent you a PM. Pls ping me via PM / send me your number (Not on the thread, pls).
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Old 27th June 2010, 17:26   #107
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Hey,
Have I been to this thread, Earlier? No I don't think so. A nice, infact a very detailed review from your side Condor, I must say this.
Btw, some points I could'nt digest are:

100kmph@2.2K RPM; Now, my TCIC motor is same as your's the only difference is in between Sumo and Safari. Mine does 100kmph@2.5K. What is the difference? As you have wrote in your review, that Sumo is a 2Tonner, then I didnot see any reason for that RPM difference.

Top speed 115kmph: Mine car does 140kmph and TATA too claims a top whack of 142kmph for Safari? Both motors are similar what makes the speed difference?
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Old 27th June 2010, 19:24   #108
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@Mercedised, thank you !

The difference in RPM's is because of the weight difference. I'm pulling approximately 250-300 kg lesser than you are.

Top Rated speed for the Victa GX Turbo is 125kmph. And this is where I too am searching for answers - why should the heavier TCIC Safari do better than the lighter Victa ? That said, I have not taken the Sumo beyond 120 with A/c.
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Old 27th June 2010, 22:46   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
Top Rated speed for the Victa GX Turbo is 125kmph. And this is where I too am searching for answers - why should the heavier TCIC Safari do better than the lighter Victa ?
Guessing, may be wrong.

1) Like Grande DiCOR, the engine is detuned (only 120bhp for grande while 140 horses for Safari DiCOR).

2) Smaller wheels in Sumo. All things same, a bigger dia wheel cover more distance in same amount of time.

-BJ
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Old 27th June 2010, 22:57   #110
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@condor:
The points that BJ6 putted up are dependable. Those differences might be due to tuning and tyres. BTW, you can also try out SAFARI tyres on your RIM.
They might suit, and the FIP issue is not worth discussing. Because there is only a marginal difference that I could makeout when I drove a 2000 Safari. And mine 2004 with Bosch FIP, the difference is negligible.
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Old 28th June 2010, 07:39   #111
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I dont think the points that BJ96 mentioned are applicable. If any, the advantage should actually lie with the Victa.

There is no de-tuning of the engine. With smaller wheels, the odo is calibrated accordingly. IIRC, pickup should also feel better with the 15".

I have suspected that the FIP plays a part - and that's also the feedback I have got. The 2000 Safari may have had a Lucas FIP, like I do. Couple of Safari's I checked had the Lucas FIP. I haven not been able to compare the performance of a Safari with a Lucas FIP vs one with a Bosch FIP.

@BJ, distance covered may be more when you look at the larger dia, but you will also need to consider the differnce in rotations. When the dia is smaller, the rate of rotation is also more. So the smaller wheel will cover more rotations in the same time as the wheel with the larger dia. (hint : how gears work).
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Old 28th June 2010, 14:52   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
I dont think the points that BJ96 mentioned are applicable. If any, the advantage should actually lie with the Victa.

There is no de-tuning of the engine. With smaller wheels, the odo is calibrated accordingly. IIRC, pickup should also feel better with the 15".

I have suspected that the FIP plays a part - and that's also the feedback I have got. The 2000 Safari may have had a Lucas FIP, like I do. Couple of Safari's I checked had the Lucas FIP. I haven not been able to compare the performance of a Safari with a Lucas FIP vs one with a Bosch FIP.

@BJ, distance covered may be more when you look at the larger dia, but you will also need to consider the differnce in rotations. When the dia is smaller, the rate of rotation is also more. So the smaller wheel will cover more rotations in the same time as the wheel with the larger dia. (hint : how gears work).
Yes you are right. But, the difference in RPM is noticable incase of low diameter and high diameter. Is't it? or I am wrong?
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Old 28th June 2010, 20:31   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
distance covered may be more when you look at the larger dia, but you will also need to consider the differnce in rotations. ...
Condor, that is what I mentioned too... "all things being same...".

Btw, if max engine RPM and gear ratios are same for both Sumo and Safari, then, Safari being larger wheel diameter will have higher max speed. Isn't it correct?

-BJ

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 29th June 2010 at 09:15. Reason: corrected from longer to larger
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Old 28th June 2010, 20:57   #114
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Default speed calculator

Use following calculators. Keep (final) gear ratio same but, vary the tire size. If you strive for the same (max) RPM, you will see how speed increases with bigger wheels.

Speed/RPM Calculator

Gear-Speed Calculator Program.
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Old 29th June 2010, 08:51   #115
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And the results of the Gear-Speed Calculator :

Note: 2500 rpm is on the higher side. Have not found the need to go beyond 2200 rpm when cruising on highways.


Truckin'.. A journey of 7 years, 5 months & 78300 km with the Sumo Victa GX Turbo-speed-vs-wheel-dia.jpg


So what do I do now ? Search for Safari OE tyres ? Esp since my current 215/75 R15's seem to be slowly heading for replacement for reasons other than wear or damage.
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Old 29th June 2010, 10:22   #116
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@condor:
AFAIK, the TCIC has R15 tyres and only DICOR versions have r16. You can surely look for TCIC R15. Surely, the stability of the vehicle will increase along with riding comfort.
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Old 29th June 2010, 12:22   #117
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@Mercedised, my stock & current size is 215/75 R15. What I am contemplating is - how about 235/70 R16 ? Ride comfort, yes. Will also increas the GC by 25 mm. Questions to be answered - will the tyres foul anything inside during full turns ?

Btw, your post above is refering to same sizes before & after. Or did I miss something ?
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Old 29th June 2010, 13:59   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
@Mercedised, my stock & current size is 215/75 R15. What I am contemplating is - how about 235/70 R16 ? Ride comfort, yes. Will also increas the GC by 25 mm. Questions to be answered - will the tyres foul anything inside during full turns ?

Btw, your post above is refering to same sizes before & after. Or did I miss something ?
The R15 will provide better ride comfort, 235\75 R15(TCIC). while a R16 tyre will have a good stability and car will handle a bit better than on R15. But, for comfort go for R15 only.
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Old 29th June 2010, 14:32   #119
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The one problem there is : stock rims are 5.5J. I think the 235's will need atleast 6J rims. Apart from this one concern, 235/75 R15 or 235/70R16 - are both options and the differences are not much ( in terms of odo errors etc)
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Old 29th June 2010, 21:46   #120
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuMo View Post
Really this vehicle is too good....I really feel secured going out in Sumo Victa anywhere anytime...a real reliable baby...no tension at all....12 years....over 2 lac kilometers of Sumo so far and absolute absolute.. abbsoluteeee at ease....I dont think any car can give this
If I am not mistaken, the Victas were launched somewhere in 2004. I think what you are talking about is the Sumo Standard or the Sumo DX.

God bless.....
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