My experiments with LPG and CNG - Team-BHP

.anshuman · 16th April 2007, 00:02

My Experience with different fuels in the Hyundai Accent 1.5

Installation of LPG
At around 60,000kms last year I realized that my daily running had increased so did the petrol prices and the car had high fuel consumption of 8kmpl in urban use and 14kmpl in highway use, the performance of the car was good though the engine was coarse at high rpm so. I decided to switch to a alternate fuel either CNG or LPG but I did not know which fuel, so I did a lot of research, asked a lot of people who were using these fuels, after long research I zeroed in to LPG as it did not compromise much on performance. LPG was available in various other cities like chandigarh and jaipur that I had to visit often, though the running cost of LPG was higher than that of CNG but performance was much better and in the league of petrol as I did not want to lose out on performance I decided to switch to LPG, another added advantage I had with LPG compared to CNG was that LPG is stored in liquid form so more gas can be stored in the tank. Next question was which LPG kit? options were Lovato, Tartarini and many Indian local brands, and finally got a Tartarini LPG kit made in italy with automatic timing advancer, Lambda and a 75litre gas tank installed. The whole kit was bought for 23k bucks. Though the tank was huge enough to occupy all my bootspace (rest of it was occupied by ICE) but I had to get it as I wanted maximum range as LPG was not available widely, even in NCR there are only around 15 petrol pumps selling LPG.

Performance LPG
When I first drove the car after installation after I found the car a bit jerky at below 2k rpm and slow responding, Just a month ago I had got K&N Fipk extreme air filter and Automech 4-2-1 headers with freeflow exhaust so I wanted the car to perform, upon several visits to the installer and lots of manhours of fine tuning the car was perfect, acceleration form rest was as good as petrol but there was slight lag at low speeds in 4th and 5th gears. The knocking now did not exist at even 30kmph in 5thgear. The car was now delivering 8.5 to 9.5 kilometers per litre of LPG under extreme driving conditions under same conditions the car never delivered above 7kmpl on petrol,even when driven a light foot the fuel consumption was about the same ,the car was consuming ~12kmpl on highway, the price of LPG in Delhi was around Rs.27 a litre. Topspeed was very close to petrol figure around 180kmph(on speedo), the car was very comfortably reached to 160kmph even with part throttle open. The car was very comfortable giving company to faster cars like verna diesel on highway.

Installation of CNG
After running the car on LPG for 40,000kms in 8 months, the car was performing very well but my preferences now changed towards comfortable daily commute rather than outright performance, the running costs seemed higher as daily usage was increasing, and the exhaust now seemed very irritating so removed the entire exhaust system and switched again to OEM exhaust now suddenly the car felt very comfortable, The cost of LPG kit was recovered long back and Ive heard a lot about very low running costs of CNG so decided to switch to CNG. The odometer now read 1,00,000kms.Again it was research time same old research techniques applied and the kit this time was Lendi Renzo. Removed the LPG kit and got the CNG kit installed with a 14kg Tank this time without lambda. the CNG kit was bought for Rs.39,500.

Performance CNG
Times New Roman]The car now feels very weak, a huge drop is felt everytime the car is asked to perform, car has easily lost 30% (my guess, I don’t have a dyno)of the power, the K&N now sounds very funny idle speed with AC, the range is now very limited but the distribution network and availability of CNG is far better than that of LPG which depends on Truck Tankers on supply and after launch of Wagon-R LPG the number of LPG powered cars have increased this has led to short supply of LPG. The CNG retails at Rs.19.20/Kg and in my car a Kg. is good for 20 kms without AC and 18Kms with AC. The running cost of 1 rupee per kilometer now feels like the car is running for free and the performance loss and short range is justified at every thankful of gas and maximum of Rs.200 is what is required at everytime for a tank ful.

GTO · 16th April 2007, 18:04

Thanks for sharing the comprehensive review; I am sure that a lot of people will benefit from this.

What I dont understand is the shift to CNG when you were happy with LPG. Yes, the potential economy was more but a gas setup takes a long-time to finetune (as you experienced). And from the face of it, your LPG appeared to be perfect!

.anshuman · 18th April 2007, 01:38

Yes LPG was sort of perfect then i could not ignore the savings from CNG,and i did was ready to compromise on performance.one rupee for a kilometer is like free for me as i have usage of more than 150kms a days.

mithun · 18th April 2007, 06:13

Nice review.

You are one of the rare breeds who has fitted both the LPG & CNG on a same car !!!

wizardofid · 18th April 2007, 07:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by .anshuman

The CNG retails at Rs.19.20/Kg and in my car a Kg. is good for 20 kms without AC and 18Kms with AC. The running cost of 1 rupee per kilometer now feels like the car is running for free and the performance loss and short range is justified at every thankful of gas and maximum of Rs.200 is what is required at everytime for a tank ful.

Nice review Anshuman. Those are really low costs. I'm curious to know if you were warned of any long term engine damage because of running on CNG.

How do they access your tank for a refill? Have they cut an opening on the side like they ask to do with LPG tanks?

Mpower · 18th April 2007, 08:53

Very good review Anshuman. Makes more sense when you can make back to back comparisons on the same car.

BTW, have you tried any finetuning on the CNG. I know its low performance but it cant be that bad. We have another bhpian from Delhi who CNGed his Xeta. Wonder what he has to say?

.anshuman · 19th April 2007, 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by wizardofid

Nice review Anshuman. Those are really low costs. I'm curious to know if you were warned of any long term engine damage because of running on CNG.

How do they access your tank for a refill? Have they cut an opening on the side like they ask to do with LPG tanks?

The only damages possible with LPG and CNG are valve damages as both these fuels do not form any carbon deposits on valves,the valves may build some gap but that is only possible when used only with these fuels,i do use the car a lot on petrol(when i need the adraneline rush,thats too frequent).LPG is filled though the boot near the tank and for CNG the filling point is in the engine bay.

low_bass_makker · 19th April 2007, 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by .anshuman

nice write up .anshuman.......my older subs....they sure sound loud and low....

.anshuman · 19th April 2007, 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by low_bass_makker

nice write up .anshuman.......my older subs....they sure sound loud and low....

thanks LBM they still sound the same, but other things keep falling because of them,thanks to the subs i pay more attention to minor rattles now.

ravibhat · 27th April 2007, 10:45

Very Nice Review!

Good comparision. This will help many, My freind suggested me to fit LPG with my Petrol Innova, I am not bothered about FE but I might consider that once my car clocks above 60,000kms( 4 yrs from now..

).

Ravi.

Su-47 · 27th April 2007, 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravibhat

Good comparision. This will help many, My freind suggested me to fit LPG with my Petrol Innova, I am not bothered about FE but I might consider that once my car clocks above 60,000kms( 4 yrs from now..

).

Beats me!! Why would you even consider an LPG-kit and spend money on the installation if you aren't bothered about FE?

headers · 27th April 2007, 12:23

that was an excellent write up anshuman..i guess you will soon be able to sort out the CNG power loss too by a good tune in..all the best

cheers

headers · 27th April 2007, 12:29

that was an excellent write up anshuman..i guess you will soon be able to sort out the CNG power loss too by a good tune in..all the best

cheers

.anshuman · 27th April 2007, 23:05

Last week got the funny idle sorted out by changing the ignition coil and spark plug cables,the driveablity is better now.

compenn · 28th April 2007, 04:01

@Anhuman

1. In post 7 you said only damage could be valves. Are those easily replcaebale. Cost?

2. When do you get the CNG refilled. When it comes to red LED. Does red LED also blink like the green LEDs? (i'm new to CNG)

3.Did you get the Lamda and timing advanccer installed or just the kit?
I've heard there is a "millenium" system(Lambda+advancer). Any info?

16th April 2007, 00:02	#1 (permalink)
.anshuman Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Dlf V Gurgaon Posts: 1,605 View My Garage	My experiments with LPG and CNG My Experience with different fuels in the Hyundai Accent 1.5 Installation of LPG At around 60,000kms last year I realized that my daily running had increased so did the petrol prices and the car had high fuel consumption of 8kmpl in urban use and 14kmpl in highway use, the performance of the car was good though the engine was coarse at high rpm so. I decided to switch to a alternate fuel either CNG or LPG but I did not know which fuel, so I did a lot of research, asked a lot of people who were using these fuels, after long research I zeroed in to LPG as it did not compromise much on performance. LPG was available in various other cities like chandigarh and jaipur that I had to visit often, though the running cost of LPG was higher than that of CNG but performance was much better and in the league of petrol as I did not want to lose out on performance I decided to switch to LPG, another added advantage I had with LPG compared to CNG was that LPG is stored in liquid form so more gas can be stored in the tank. Next question was which LPG kit? options were Lovato, Tartarini and many Indian local brands, and finally got a Tartarini LPG kit made in italy with automatic timing advancer, Lambda and a 75litre gas tank installed. The whole kit was bought for 23k bucks. Though the tank was huge enough to occupy all my bootspace (rest of it was occupied by ICE) but I had to get it as I wanted maximum range as LPG was not available widely, even in NCR there are only around 15 petrol pumps selling LPG. Performance LPG When I first drove the car after installation after I found the car a bit jerky at below 2k rpm and slow responding, Just a month ago I had got K&N Fipk extreme air filter and Automech 4-2-1 headers with freeflow exhaust so I wanted the car to perform, upon several visits to the installer and lots of manhours of fine tuning the car was perfect, acceleration form rest was as good as petrol but there was slight lag at low speeds in 4th and 5th gears. The knocking now did not exist at even 30kmph in 5thgear. The car was now delivering 8.5 to 9.5 kilometers per litre of LPG under extreme driving conditions under same conditions the car never delivered above 7kmpl on petrol,even when driven a light foot the fuel consumption was about the same ,the car was consuming ~12kmpl on highway, the price of LPG in Delhi was around Rs.27 a litre. Topspeed was very close to petrol figure around 180kmph(on speedo), the car was very comfortably reached to 160kmph even with part throttle open. The car was very comfortable giving company to faster cars like verna diesel on highway. Installation of CNG After running the car on LPG for 40,000kms in 8 months, the car was performing very well but my preferences now changed towards comfortable daily commute rather than outright performance, the running costs seemed higher as daily usage was increasing, and the exhaust now seemed very irritating so removed the entire exhaust system and switched again to OEM exhaust now suddenly the car felt very comfortable, The cost of LPG kit was recovered long back and Ive heard a lot about very low running costs of CNG so decided to switch to CNG. The odometer now read 1,00,000kms.Again it was research time same old research techniques applied and the kit this time was Lendi Renzo. Removed the LPG kit and got the CNG kit installed with a 14kg Tank this time without lambda. the CNG kit was bought for Rs.39,500. Performance CNG Times New Roman]The car now feels very weak, a huge drop is felt everytime the car is asked to perform, car has easily lost 30% (my guess, I don’t have a dyno)of the power, the K&N now sounds very funny idle speed with AC, the range is now very limited but the distribution network and availability of CNG is far better than that of LPG which depends on Truck Tankers on supply and after launch of Wagon-R LPG the number of LPG powered cars have increased this has led to short supply of LPG. The CNG retails at Rs.19.20/Kg and in my car a Kg. is good for 20 kms without AC and 18Kms with AC. The running cost of 1 rupee per kilometer now feels like the car is running for free and the performance loss and short range is justified at every thankful of gas and maximum of Rs.200 is what is required at everytime for a tank ful. __________________ Grande Punto Multijet Emotion pack Elantra CRDi Scorpio mhawk Vlx

16th April 2007, 18:04	#2 (permalink)
GTO Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 18,786 View My Garage	Thanks for sharing the comprehensive review; I am sure that a lot of people will benefit from this. What I dont understand is the shift to CNG when you were happy with LPG. Yes, the potential economy was more but a gas setup takes a long-time to finetune (as you experienced). And from the face of it, your LPG appeared to be perfect! __________________ GTO Work backward from your imagination, not forward from the past! Please don't PM for support. Use the Contact Form instead. Please read the NEW Team-BHP FAQ section for all your queries.

18th April 2007, 01:38	#3 (permalink)
.anshuman Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Dlf V Gurgaon Posts: 1,605 View My Garage	Yes LPG was sort of perfect then i could not ignore the savings from CNG,and i did was ready to compromise on performance.one rupee for a kilometer is like free for me as i have usage of more than 150kms a days. __________________ Grande Punto Multijet Emotion pack Elantra CRDi Scorpio mhawk Vlx

18th April 2007, 06:13	#4 (permalink)
mithun Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Cochin/B'lore(Land of Speed-breakers) Posts: 1,564 View My Garage	Nice review. You are one of the rare breeds who has fitted both the LPG & CNG on a same car !!! __________________ Hold fast to dreams, for if dreams dry, life is a broken-winged bird that cannot fly.

18th April 2007, 08:53	#6 (permalink)
Mpower Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago/B'lore Posts: 5,326 View My Garage	Very good review Anshuman. Makes more sense when you can make back to back comparisons on the same car. BTW, have you tried any finetuning on the CNG. I know its low performance but it cant be that bad. We have another bhpian from Delhi who CNGed his Xeta. Wonder what he has to say? __________________ The difference between the men and the boys....................is the speed of their toys.

27th April 2007, 10:45	#10 (permalink)
ravibhat Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 2,082 View My Garage	Very Nice Review! Good comparision. This will help many, My freind suggested me to fit LPG with my Petrol Innova, I am not bothered about FE but I might consider that once my car clocks above 60,000kms( 4 yrs from now.. ). Ravi. __________________ Blue Alto LXI 2008 Limited Edition My City Car HIGHway vehicle: Safari or Innova (Who win my heart)

27th April 2007, 12:23	#12 (permalink)
headers Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Chennai Posts: 2,291	that was an excellent write up anshuman..i guess you will soon be able to sort out the CNG power loss too by a good tune in..all the best cheers __________________ Only a V8 will do! Only a V8

27th April 2007, 12:29	#13 (permalink)
headers Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Chennai Posts: 2,291	that was an excellent write up anshuman..i guess you will soon be able to sort out the CNG power loss too by a good tune in..all the best cheers __________________ Only a V8 will do! Only a V8

27th April 2007, 23:05	#14 (permalink)
.anshuman Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Dlf V Gurgaon Posts: 1,605 View My Garage	Last week got the funny idle sorted out by changing the ignition coil and spark plug cables,the driveablity is better now. __________________ Grande Punto Multijet Emotion pack Elantra CRDi Scorpio mhawk Vlx

28th April 2007, 04:01	#15 (permalink)
compenn BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: delhi Posts: 92	@Anhuman 1. In post 7 you said only damage could be valves. Are those easily replcaebale. Cost? 2. When do you get the CNG refilled. When it comes to red LED. Does red LED also blink like the green LEDs? (i'm new to CNG) 3.Did you get the Lamda and timing advanccer installed or just the kit? I've heard there is a "millenium" system(Lambda+advancer). Any info?

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