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Old 20th January 2008, 20:08   #91
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thanks sameel for the reply to my PM.
took some time to figure it out.

ok, lets assume that what you say is true, how come no one has reported trouble yet? and how could tuner like pete stake his reputation on a product like this? I've met him myself, and he's not a fly-by-night operator.

anyway, assuming the worst possible scenario,
remove the box, take it to maruti and hyundai and let them sort out the resulting problems under warranty. they have been looting us since day 1 anyway. who cares if they get screwed?

the box leaves no trace anyway.
and hellstar...hyundai's warranty is brilliant, 3yrs unlimited mileage. enjoy.
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Old 20th January 2008, 20:33   #92
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oh my god,sameel buddie you have poured in something which is really meant to be looked into.but you can do one thing ,sit with peter and discuss things and ,maybe he is not aware of the intricacy of the subject and find a solution.i am really terrified of the news.

ram
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Old 20th January 2008, 23:04   #93
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Originally Posted by sameel View Post
[...] But yu will need to change the PUMP, FUEL FILTER , ALL SENSORS , etc etc to make it all match.
MEANING IN SHORT YOU JUST GOT YOUR ENGINE FRIED.
Great post there Sameel. Thanks for the technical details, now I understand how *exactly* generating greater power out of the engine will reduce it's life.

But the part I am not sure is, by how much is the life of the engine shortened? And I don't think it gets "FRIED", that term generally is used to refer to catastrophic failures, right?

My Elantra(with Petes box) has run around 75K now, and it mostly sees gear changes at the red line. I don't think it is in the mood to cross over to the other side, yet. And I just got the fuel pumps, pressures etc checked, just to make sure there is no trouble. And if the pressures do drop or the pump dies, I would not complain too much, for all the good work it has done, it deserves a place in my "show case".

OR maybe, the engine and pump etc are "rated" to work a bit extra, just that it is not done in the factory tune for purposes of fuel economy, or maybe to meet emission norms? Do you think that could be the case?

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[..]SO BE PREPARED WITH THE TURBO TO GO NUTS.
The only things which go "NUTS" are other cars around you, and the driver(me, that is.)

Last edited by tadukuttan : 20th January 2008 at 23:13.
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Old 21st January 2008, 00:42   #94
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well guys the reason all you guys are facing no probs is because all our engines are put through a harsh testing procedure. a simple example is like this.
an engine is run say for 24 hours at 4500rpm .. to see if there is any problem in material or design used for the die for engine block or cylinder . the thing is this. All engines are put to a lot of stress during the R&D phase and testing phase. and these are conditions which are very harsh , much worse than what a Box can do.

but yes have myself done testing in my 'labcar' simulated environment for a car. using a much more aggressive injection pattern. but it just wont show synchronization. its a bit technical . and guys i cant give out info like this on a public forum. no wonder they say its better to remain quiet.
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Old 21st January 2008, 07:45   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sameel View Post
well guys the reason all you guys are facing no probs is because all our engines are put through a harsh testing procedure. a simple example is like this.
an engine is run say for 24 hours at 4500rpm .. to see if there is any problem in material or design used for the die for engine block or cylinder . the thing is this. All engines are put to a lot of stress during the R&D phase and testing phase. and these are conditions which are very harsh , much worse than what a Box can do.
Ah, exactly what I was thinking. And what most people's experience with the box shows them, it does not result in premature engine failures, simply because most modern diesels take a lot of punishment, and explains the ever increasing reputation of diesel tuning boxes as a safe mod?

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but yes have myself done testing in my 'labcar' simulated environment for a car. using a much more aggressive injection pattern. but it just wont show synchronization. its a bit technical . and guys i cant give out info like this on a public forum. no wonder they say its better to remain quiet.
I understand it is technical and beyond the grasp of many of the forum guys, including me, but when you are talking about technical issues, please do not involve in sensationalism. The only reason I responded to your original post was that you used words like FRIED/SCREWED etc. You would not do that in your test reports when you are testing the systems in your lab right? You probably would be reporting on mean time to failure or similar, if that is the topic of interest, right?
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Old 21st January 2008, 11:37   #96
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@Tadukuttan .
yes its true i did use rash terms . sorry for that .
the whole thing of injections is very tricky..
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Old 21st January 2008, 13:35   #97
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wow thats one helluva discussion that has happened , and i think everyone knows for sure that the moment you do do something to the engine i.e. mod it then it would definitely have an effect on the engine life , as you are not really taking care of the entire cycle ( non holistic approach ). I think that i have made my decision to chose the way my ride is modded with these things accounted for in my mind...

@ tadu that's some nice moderation skills pal !
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Old 22nd January 2008, 09:22   #98
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to all the guys using the box.
i have done all the analysis required.
the basic theory is as follows.
each and every manufacturer has got the target of achieving a 100k miles(1.6 lakh kms) durability for core engine parts and drivetrain.
suspension and related parts are never accounted in this. (you guys should know the reason!!)
lets get to the core part!!
every manufacturer will only put roughly 60% power of what can be achieved from an engine.. in countries with higher quality of fuel and less harsh environmental conditions, 75% of power is given hence the difference in foreign cars and cars sold in India.
now how this is achieved is by putting specific TORQUE LIMITING curves in the injection pattern specific to an engine.
now what the box does is it gives 30-40% boost in power and torque by delimiting the torque curve or running a new injection pattern with a higher torque limit curve.
in any case what happens is MORE FUEL IS INJECTED THAN USUAL.
but due to higher torque produced and that too due to the torque being produced from a low RPM [ (i myself have seen prototype AUDI INJECTION PATTERN which makes full torque from as low as 1100 RPM!! ) but the production model has got it from 1400 RPM!! only.], anyways due to this more torque , we tend to ride the cars mostly in higher gears ( forget 2nd and 1st gear riding in those gears will give insane boost to the car and normally people tend to go in higher gears because the car pulls very easily in 4th and 5th gear even from low engine RPM ), in this way people wont notice the mileage drop which is actually present!!. obviously MORE FUEL IS INJECTED meaning mileage goes down but we ride in higher gears and never see the difference!! so first thing box doesnt provide higher mileage ...its a myth!

now one who knows the car inside out will be knowing through which all parts of the car the extra torque goes.

importantly:-
drivetrain , suspension and related areas.
damping material ( its obvious more vibration is produced and the damping materials will be put to test!! )
but dont worry the box fine tunes the pilot injections to make the more smooth and silent.

but the extra torque goes through the whole car giving lot of stress to other components in the car.
so guys now you have got an idea how the whole thing works.
And one more myth buster whenever an Anomaly( error in case of ECU environment, a log is written to EEPROM in Ecu) meaning when ever some one claims to say that the manufacturer wont know ... its a lie.

Ever wondered why its easy to fit a box and not doing ECU remap?
its because each manufacturer protects their ECU mapping which has to be first cracked!! and then a different mapping is to be done and yes everything has to be changed accordingly.
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Old 22nd January 2008, 10:57   #99
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What if you reset the ecu, say by disconnecting the battery. All error codes are supposed to be cleared and the EEPROM will be erased right?

Usually an error in the ECU will result in teh check engine light coming on. Am I right?

This is nice indepth knowledge to know how it works.

cheers.
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Old 22nd January 2008, 10:59   #100
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Default accent VIVA pertol

Any thing can be done to increase the Accent VIVA pertol. torq
pls suggest
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Old 22nd January 2008, 11:27   #101
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great info there sameel,

but this kind of risk we are willing to take.
obviously, a higher torque means greater stress on the gearbox, the driveshafts, the suspension, the brakes, the tyres. everything.

delimiting the torque curve is fine. i dont mind at all. the engine is built to take extra stress, and I know i'm on the edge, but thats the fun.

if it was completely without risks, then everyone would be running the box, and that would negate my advantage wouldnt it?

its about finding the right balance between risk, benefit and priorities of the driver/owner.

my priority is more torque
I'm greedy.
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Old 22nd January 2008, 13:17   #102
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@vid6639
no there is a log entry into the eprom which doesnt get erased when the battery is disconnected . its only accesible if you have a ECU specific diagnostic unit.
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Old 22nd January 2008, 14:26   #103
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Quote:
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@vid6639
no there is a log entry into the eprom which doesnt get erased when the battery is disconnected . its only accesible if you have a ECU specific diagnostic unit.
Ah ok. got it Sameel. Thanks for clearing that doubt.
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Old 22nd January 2008, 17:36   #104
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What if you reset the ecu, say by disconnecting the battery. All error codes are supposed to be cleared and the EEPROM will be erased right?
EEPROMs are only erasable electrically, just cutting the power supply will not be enough
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Old 22nd January 2008, 17:41   #105
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Originally Posted by mtnrajdeep View Post
EEPROMs are only erasable electrically, just cutting the power supply will not be enough
Yes true because that's what an EEPROM is.

But I asked because generally all error codes get cleared when you reset the ecu i.e. cut the power.
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