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Old 27th November 2008, 22:28   #376
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Ripper, you aren't getting my point.
agree, i'm still not getting it.

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Imagine, we at THBP might refuse the additives because we know what exactly they do. What about the average Joe? For eg, my dad was totally sold when they said additives will help engine life etc. I am sure same happens to every other person walking into the showroom.
not so sure about this bit. We've seen plenty of bills here on the forum, but what they hit you with is a complete shocker! like you said -skoda territory. They have taken advantage of your dad's trusting nature.
If every average joe was getting zapped with bills like yours, this car would not sell.much less have a 6 month waiting period.


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No, I haven't got the intercooler cleaned on this. Though, did it on a couple of elantra's belonging to my friends. The difference could easily be felt. I normally get it done at my friends garage as a part of modding .
what are your thoughts on a bigger intercooler for the swift? how complex is the job going to be? and will it be VFM? I notice a drop in performance when the ambient temp is high,for eg- noon. will that get better with a bigger intercooler?
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Old 27th November 2008, 22:30   #377
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Ripper, you aren't getting my point.
I can see Rahul where are you coming from. Honestly i hate rattling noises inside a car. My friend has bought a Swift Vdi Azure grey in color and its just 2800 km old and has started rattling which is damn annoying to me. People talk about the build quality of Tata and others but my Dad's Indigo started rattling a bit after 50k kms!

I seriously feel Maruti should have a look into this as almost 99% owners complain regarding this and IMO its a big complaint. A car around 6 Lac OTR is no joke.

@Greenhorn - not surprising considering it comes with crap stock tyres.

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Old 27th November 2008, 22:43   #378
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not so sure about this bit. We've seen plenty of bills here on the forum, but what they hit you with is a complete shocker! like you said -skoda territory. They have taken advantage of your dad's trusting nature.
If every average joe was getting zapped with bills like yours, this car would not sell.much less have a 6 month waiting period.

what are your thoughts on a bigger intercooler for the swift? how complex is the job going to be? and will it be VFM? I notice a drop in performance when the ambient temp is high,for eg- noon. will that get better with a bigger intercooler?
I spoke to some of the higher authorities at RNS at the last service, they said most customers get the additives put for their cars as SMIL recommends it. And they don't mind paying more for the service because modern India has never seen such silent diesels, that are pretty quick, fuel efficient too. So an average Joe feels he is getting a lot more in comparison to the diesels we used to get on our older cars. Everyone thinks diesels are anyways costly to maintain, and since very few people understand all this tech geek, they normally leave it to the hands of the service advisors.

Haven't got a chance to remove the bumper of the swift to get a closer look at the intercooler. From whatever I can see, it looks big enough. Probably the intake is pretty restrictive coupled to a really small turbo IMO. A new intercooler with plumbing will cost in the range of 30-35k, but that is going to be useful only with a few other mods up the sleeve like increasing boost, bigger turbo etc. Its always takes time to get the plumbing right for the 1st car, after that its a piece of a cake. On the elantra though, it makes pheonominal difference. But then, that stock intercooler is the size of my fist. So.....

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 27th November 2008 at 22:44.
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Old 27th November 2008, 23:27   #379
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I am actually not worried that the service cost me nearly 10k. What I am worried is about the perception people have that Swift's are cheaper to maintain. We have had many people shout out loud saying Skoda's are expensive to maintain. Somehow, these costs are on par with maybe even the Fabia? Yet none of us complain here because its a Maruti?
The 'Ripper' named Geo has already dissected your bill, and its quite obvious the usual servicing costs for the other Swift owners dont amount to so much. We have many threads running in parallel, so shouldnt be difficult to get that info. Were your brake pads seriously worn out, or was it preventive maintenance?

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Though what did baffle me is that after so much localization, swift brake pads cost twice as much as an imported set for the baleno. And after paying so much, what you end up getting is a crappy engine (for enthusiastic drivers) that dies at 3,200 rpm and a car that rattles like a tractor. I wish my parents had bought the Getz instead, atleast I would have had a superb engine, better build quality and a big smile on my face even if I had to cough up a similar bills.
Rahul, but surely.. you knew about the car's characteristics even before you queued up for one, right? Why the surprise now?!

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Actually I don't mind someone stealing the car, I can buy a getz .
Okie, i'm taking it. Consider it stolen. Will be waiting for the Getz CRDi review.
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Old 28th November 2008, 07:41   #380
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The 'Ripper' named Geo has already dissected your bill, and its quite obvious the usual servicing costs for the other Swift owners dont amount to so much. We have many threads running in parallel, so shouldnt be difficult to get that info. Were your brake pads seriously worn out, or was it preventive maintenance?
The brake pads were pretty worn is what dad told me, since he had to leave to Hubli soon after the car came back from service it was best not to take a chance on the highway.

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Rahul, but surely.. you knew about the car's characteristics even before you queued up for one, right? Why the surprise now?!
Honestly, I never expected it to be so bad. Until the time I took it to the GQ I didn't figure out how rev happy (rather lack of it) the engine was. I have mentioned it earlier too, the car is best for city/state highways.

Besides, parents were dead against buying a Hyundai because some aunt got a lemon (Accent Gls) and gave a perception that they are very expensive to maintain. And I got my swift in 4-5 days from the day we booked one, so never had to "queue" up. If I had to wait for 6 months, I can assure you I would have brainwashed my folks to pick up the Getz or a 2nd hand elantra.

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Okie, i'm taking it. Consider it stolen. Will be waiting for the Getz CRDi review.
Please make sure it doesnt fall into the hands of the cops or the insurers. I wont get the money from them otherwise to buy the getz .
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Old 28th November 2008, 07:49   #381
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Nope, intercooler cleaning is required. Lot of oil gets deposited in the intercooler blocking the flow of air. Just open the intercooler and check the pipes, you will find a lot of oil in it.

I just got my car back from 20k service. Bill is 9,863 . 2500 for brake pads & drum brake cleaning. That still is 7k for a service and definitely very expensive. It seems to be in the Fabia league?
Thanks for pointing out the intercooler cleaning. I am not sure it is mentioned in the manual though, which is why I thought it isn't required. 9863 sounds a lot, most of the t-BHP Vdi's went in for a 20k service amounting to ~5k, give or take a few 100's.
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Old 28th November 2008, 12:46   #382
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I am due for my 10K service of Vdi.

Any idea of how is Smart cars in Kaggadasapura
I am not finding time to go to far off places.

Any suggestions are welcome. I stay near Basavanagar/Vignan Nagar area.

thanks in advance.
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Old 28th November 2008, 13:44   #383
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Hi,

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@Greenhorn - not surprising considering it comes with crap stock tyres.
Those same tyres are doing duty in my Marina front axle for the past 15000kms and they are not going to be bald for a long time to come!
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Old 28th November 2008, 14:38   #384
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@trrk, are you using the stock tyres from the Swift, on your Marina ?

Did you swap 175/65 R14 for 165/80 R14 ?
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Old 28th November 2008, 15:06   #385
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9k is on the higher side, and thats pretty heavy usage of brakes

I also wont recommend alignment/balancing at dealer since they charge quite high, instead a early sat drive to alignment shop and 30 mts is really worth the pain for me, costs me some 300 bucks including weights each time.

Reg intercooler, how does oil deposit in there? Is it coz turbo is leaking oil?

To add further, i dont know of any reason why oil should collect inside intercooler unless there is an issue. Normal cars will have carbon soot, but that also if you do some good highway runs will get cleared off to a great extent. 20k kms and intercooler cleaning, somehow i dont buy.

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Old 28th November 2008, 15:43   #386
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Reg intercooler, how does oil deposit in there? Is it coz turbo is leaking oil?

To add further, i dont know of any reason why oil should collect inside intercooler unless there is an issue. Normal cars will have carbon soot, but that also if you do some good highway runs will get cleared off to a great extent. 20k kms and intercooler cleaning, somehow i dont buy.
Don't ask me why, but I am guessing the oil comes from the turbo and some of it leaks and finds its way through the compressor seals? I recently examined cmiuc's elantra, it had a lot of oil on the intercooler pipes. The hyundai guys I remember clearly stating that finding oil in the piping was common, specially that it gets more as the car ages.

Initially even I suspected busted oil seals on the turbo etc, but a friend who has a workshop says even some octavia's that had come for accidental repairs had oil in the piping leading upto the intercooler. Once we cleaned up Satya's plumbing and intercooler by the Hyundai guys the performance improved drastically. His elantra had clocked around 38-40k then I guess.
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Old 28th November 2008, 16:45   #387
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technically good turbo (and design) should not leak oil to the intercooler. I suspect the part quality of indian turbos for this leaking. Or may be the turbo oil line design is not proper. But can't be said since Elantras and Swifts seem to leak oil.
too much oil and parts/seals that don't handle high revs and usage will lead to oil leak. since oil cleans up the air, a bit of oil in intercooler is good for filtering air i guess!!
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Old 29th November 2008, 03:34   #388
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Don't ask me why, but I am guessing the oil comes from the turbo and some of it leaks and finds its way through the compressor seals? I recently examined cmiuc's elantra, it had a lot of oil on the intercooler pipes. The hyundai guys I remember clearly stating that finding oil in the piping was common, specially that it gets more as the car ages.

Initially even I suspected busted oil seals on the turbo etc, but a friend who has a workshop says even some octavia's that had come for accidental repairs had oil in the piping leading upto the intercooler. Once we cleaned up Satya's plumbing and intercooler by the Hyundai guys the performance improved drastically. His elantra had clocked around 38-40k then I guess.
Don't blame the poor turbo for getting the intercooler dirty. The real reason for the intercooler getting dirty is because of the stupid emissions law by which nothing can be directly vented out to atmosphere(yeah, yeah, I know - Love for your atmosphere and all that). Therefore, crankcase ventilation is routed through inlet, which then contaminates the intercooler with it's oil fumes. Add the soot from EGR being pumped back, and you have a nice mix.

So basically, no busted seal on turbo, or the car would exhibit other symptoms. How long would the car run with a busted turbo seal, anyway?
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Old 29th November 2008, 16:42   #389
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Hi,

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@trrk, are you using the stock tyres from the Swift, on your Marina ?
Did you swap 175/65 R14 for 165/80 R14 ?
Long story, but yes! More at:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-a...ing-tyres.html (Downsizing tyres)
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Old 29th November 2008, 18:06   #390
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Haven't got a chance to remove the bumper of the swift to get a closer look at the intercooler. From whatever I can see, it looks big enough. Probably the intake is pretty restrictive coupled to a really small turbo IMO. A new intercooler with plumbing will cost in the range of 30-35k, but that is going to be useful only with a few other mods up the sleeve like increasing boost, bigger turbo etc. Its always takes time to get the plumbing right for the 1st car, after that its a piece of a cake. On the elantra though, it makes pheonominal difference. But then, that stock intercooler is the size of my fist. So.....
thanks for that. helps me plan things better.

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Don't blame the poor turbo for getting the intercooler dirty. The real reason for the intercooler getting dirty is because of the stupid emissions law by which nothing can be directly vented out to atmosphere(yeah, yeah, I know - Love for your atmosphere and all that). Therefore, crankcase ventilation is routed through inlet, which then contaminates the intercooler with it's oil fumes. Add the soot from EGR being pumped back, and you have a nice mix.

So basically, no busted seal on turbo, or the car would exhibit other symptoms. How long would the car run with a busted turbo seal, anyway?
Aaha! So thats whats happening! Crucify me and call me a polluter, but is there some way I can get around this, without compromising on reliability and performance?
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