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Old 27th April 2009, 10:11   #616
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[quote=greenhorn;1277779]But does maruti mention that such a precaution be taken with the engine? I dont think so. I havent seen it in the Swift DDiS manual, quote]

I do remember reading about this in my Swift LDi manual, but was mentioned in a more subtle way
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Old 27th April 2009, 10:38   #617
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Default Swift DDiS - Manual Clarification

The Swift DDiS manual does mention that after hard driving one should let the engine idle for a minute or two before switching it off in order to "prolong" the life of the turbocharger. However, there is no mention of not zooming off immediately - although, in general, it is recommended that the engine should be warmed up before you try any theatrics (read reaching the higher revs).

BTW - I drove a friend's MultiJet Linea earlier last week and am happy to report that the VGT isn't as much fun as the Swift's Linear Geometry Turbo
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Old 27th April 2009, 16:26   #618
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Hi DieselFan,

Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselFan View Post
It is sad to hear that trrk. high speed needs precision manufacturing and good QC. Both are a suspect with Tatas or their vendors.
I hope you meant that you are sad that I am following a bad practice!

If else, I hope I have not wrongly conveyed that I had problems. I meant I never had any problem with the Safari turbo until it left me @ 76000kms. The Marina is still with me and is fine as of now.
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Old 29th April 2009, 18:28   #619
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Talking 2000+ kms over two weekends and ready for 31,000 km service

Last 2 weekends Snowhite was put to some ultimate challenges that any indian hatch back can face. Did around 2000 plus kms of which around 40-50 kms would be no road situations (makutta and nileshwaram interiors) and around 300 kms broken tarmac mountain roads. This includes some pretty bad flood situation which i have recorded here http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/1277552-post201.html About the flood, i can say that, usually one cant see the tip of the bonnet while seated in the car, in my case i saw the water wave rise above this and splash on to the bonnet

Having done these trips, am quite happy with the way the car has held up. No serious deterioration of suspension or chassis. Yes i heard some very very minor rattle from the stereo assembly after taking the Makutta route, but apart from that no other new rattles introduced. To explain lil further the impacts, i have to say that it managed to tear/shear a metal clamp off (ones used to hold the ABS unit). Its a bad decision from me to use this clamp to fix the Skoda type twin horns, that too in one single clamp. Nevertheless have managed a better mounting position for now.

Found a nail in front Left tire just as i was preparing to return from Kannur yesterday, and i did a successful puncture job myself without demounting the wheel from axle. I pulled the nail and is started shhhhhhhh, immediately took the drill tool and plugged the leak. Took about 10 mts to complete the job and with minimal air loss (i could drive to the gas station to top up, reading was 28 psi) am more confident with this now on! Good idea for tubeless tire cars to carry a service kit, costed me around 750 bucks from Madhus.

For a change i have overshot my service interval and car has done more than 31,000 kms (6k kms since last service) nothing great or alarming though. The turbo pull is as it is, cooler the climate one tend to enjoy it more.

Return trip car was loaded heavy, read as with bags, suitcase, coconut etc, 4 passengers and luggage again on the middle part of rear sear and tranny tunnel. The rear suspension travel was compromised and i have to report that this is a very bad idea. The car will twitch and bounce that you will be forced to slow down on badly broken tarmac, i generally rip through them. This again i think has slightly increased compared to first few months drive with similar load, so i can confidently say that the shocks and springs are aging, aging well though.

Just got off the phone with RNS yeshwanthpur and lady on the other hand informed that she will keep Sachin informed on my booking next week. Anyways am not taking any chance and will be calling Sachin the previous day.

Car right now is carrying a bad boy look, and i have decided to get her water washed over weekend so that the service team has a better work environment lol. More than that i want to do an under body inspection and also wash the radiator and ac grills well.

So rest after the service experience at 30,000 kms next week.
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Old 4th May 2009, 18:00   #620
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Exclamation Problem Alert !

Background: The service light did not go off before cranking the ignition. It turned off immediately after starting the engine. Went to MASS who connected the tech2 and diagnosed a brake circuit problem. The brake switch was removed, cleaned and put back. Problem resolved.

Problem II: Immediately after this issue, I observed that when the rear wheels of the car went over a bump, the brake light used to come on and then go off in a jiffy. With days (about 200km of driving), the duration of the brake light staying on increased to a constant glow for the past 3 days. I initially thought that the brake switch could be loose and hence ignored the issue. However, when I took it to MASS just a while ago, they checked that the brake oil was low. They refilled and the light went off.

This means that there is a leakage in the system somewhere. Possible suspect is the rear brake drum. Will leave the car with MASS tomorrow for a thorough check up and solution.

Need your guys help in knowing beforehand about the possible causes and solution. Do not want to be duped at the service station. If at all it is a problem with the drum, will it be covered in extended warranty. The car is 46k kms and 1.5 years young.
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Old 4th May 2009, 18:07   #621
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Seems like there is a leak either in the bleeding nut or in one of the wheel cylinders. No it will not be covered under warranty. Drum should be fine and in the worse situation might require cleaning to clear off the leaked brake fluid.
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Old 4th May 2009, 18:12   #622
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Thanks.

Is this a big monetary hit ? And I wonder what could have caused it !!
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Old 4th May 2009, 18:17   #623
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Wheel cylinder kit - Wear and tear can cause this, if the service kit is available then changing the rubber kit should cost you under couple of hundreds. If not around 500 bucks per wheel cylinder. When was the last time the brakes were serviced, how many kms since then?
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Old 4th May 2009, 18:20   #624
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I did not get the brakes services specially per se. All I got done was the normal servicing and cleaning of the front brake pads. This was done about 5k kms back at 40k odo reading.

Safety and longevity wise, should I push for the 500 buck wheel cylinder option ? I have to keep the car for a minimum of 150k. Thats when the loan will end
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Old 4th May 2009, 18:32   #625
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If its a minor leak wheel cylinder service kit is good enough, thats why its available in the first place.

On a side note its always advisable to do a cleaning and inspection of rear wheels also, when one does the brake service.
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Old 4th May 2009, 18:35   #626
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Great then. Thanks again.
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Old 5th May 2009, 23:41   #627
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Thumbs down Part1:31,100 kms update!Done 30,000 kms service at RNS Yeshwanthpur and disappointed!

Don’t you wish that your intuitions are wrong sometimes? Well I do! Read on, for more juicy, dusty and smoke filled update.

Ps: Maruti Udyog LTD and RNS Motors LTD read carefully, I don’t want any special favor, I don’t expect a single phone call from anyone since I know how to take care of my car to my satisfaction, but do justice to your customers for a change. The not so lucky lot, couple of lakhs of them, who might have to take the brunt and part with their hard earned money.

Pps: will be slightly long so please bear with me. Intuition part will not be fully revealed until the end

So let the story about INTUITION begin, it started with the thread about some attitude issues at RNS posted couple of days back here. As a reply, I was about to post how I am (rather I was) a satisfied customer and end it by saying, keeping my fingers crossed since I have a service scheduled this week.

My car aka Snowhite has been treating me really well, surprising me with its go anywhere attitude, comfort, VFM and last but not the least Peace of Mind/Joy of ownership feeling. Yes I do take care of the car maybe more than a normal Joe would, with my certain idiosyncrasies/overindulgences, though I do put her through a hell lot of abuse (lot more than a normal Joe). She has stood by me in the most difficult situations without leaving me stranded at any point of time.

So I drove in for the 30,000 km service and as usual Sachin aka Service Adviser aka SA opened the job card. His first question was: what are the complaints?

I was dumbstruck for a second, blame it on the NOT so good intuition since waking up today morning, I collected my thoughts and replied: well none!

I went on to list out the jobs I want to carry out:

- 30k service, with oil/oil filter change. After confirming orally that, Mobil Delvac MX is the brew, the one that I want and what they use

- Front strut overhaul, Sachin recommended waiting for 40k. I also agreed, since after I removed all the knick knaks in the morning and drove till Yeshwanthpur from Silk board (under 40 mts starting at around 8 am so I get to hear all the crash boom bang), the car sounded quite aok. I was in double mind about my reasoning of a slightly deteriorated suspension. Still I prod again, and our man is confident and I decided to go with him and delay the job

- Air filter change, which Sachin again said is not needed (schedule is at 40k service or 20k kms) but I insisted to go for it

- Brake cleaning

- Add one more OE horn to make it a pair. Sachin demoed a new swift which has 2 units instead of single unit like the old ones. He said maybe the fog light shroud has to be changed to let the horns be more vocal while at that, since new ones have perforation on them. I gave a go ahead

Sachin offers me a drop to Yeshwanthpur Jn but unfortunately, the tire of that car is punctured and am running late for office. Jumped into the rick and the next 1:15 hours spent in peak traffic with chit chat, smoke and dust. Reached office and my friendly superior comments that am NUTS to drive till other side of town to get my car serviced! OK she still wants me to take her Getz and do my magic to make it drive and look like snowhite. That’s another story alright. Things get busy at work and I with that “oh not so great feeling” at heart chugs on.

I get a call just before lunch from Sachin and he asks me, who all drives my car? I replied it’s me and me alone! He tells me he is out on a test drive and feels that the clutch is weak, asks me usual questions like how is her FE, pick up and stuff. I replied that all is well and I just did a nice back to back trip to gods own country on god forsaken roads and she was aok. She actually gave 23 kms on my Kannur – Calicut – Kannur run. Sachin feels that car is not pulling well in 3rd after 60 kph! The trouble shooter in me overtakes and I ask him to confirm if the refill oil was 3.1 liter, he confirms the same back. We get into chit chat of how a car used in city might get a weak clutch and maybe just do some clutch bleed and do a test drive. He said nothing to be alarmed, just thought of keeping me informed since I am very particular.

Lunch suddenly becomes PMS’ed and I drag couple of more hours at work, 4 PM call up Sachin and he confirms car is “aok” and ready and I will receive a call from RNS with bill amount. I get busy at work and by 415pm, call received, bill is confirmed and I confirm back my arrival for 6-615 pm. Another rickshaw ride, this time thanks to better traffic I reach in 1 hour.

Sachin meets me and ask me to pay up. I trust him so I agree to the pay without even a trial; I wait at the counter for the guys to make the print. I collect the same and start to go through it. This is when I notice something very different from my previous bills. The oil rather the description is “15W40 PRIDE XL (SWIFTDIES” and am not that aok after this. Still I carry on to the cashier when Sachin asks me if everything is in order, I tell him NO. I ask him if he is sure the oil used in Mobil Delvac and he replies that it should be since that’s the one that Maruti recommends. I show him the print on bill and he stops me from paying up! He request me to wait in the couch while he goes and checks (man this is why I LOVE this guy!)

I see Sachin walk to spares, then to a Mangers seat having discussion there and then comes back. He confirms that it is NOT Mobil Delvac and its Servo PRIDE which is also Maruti recommended. Before I question any further, he admits it’s his fault and requests me to wait so that he can escalate it and find a resolution. I like honest people rather am a sucker and I even offer to pay for Servo also if he can get me some of my fav Mobil Delvac. He goes in; I can see him bang his head in front of manager 1, then make calls, then manager 2. Comes out and asks me to follow him to cafeteria and meet the GM (Gurudat IIRC). I oblige and follow.

Sachin explains what has happened, and even admits it’s his fault that he didn’t check and confirm. The GM/Senior Manager hands me an email print from MUL to RNS informing the oil to be used and stuff, which has Mobil Delvac MX on top and Servo below. I inform him of my preference and ask him if the service center can find me a can of Mobil Delvac, which am ready to pay, replace it and then move out in peace. He makes a call, to stores in charge (according to him), confirms the lot is not available and it will be sometime. Sachin butts in suggesting if they can procure from outside. Our man Mr Guru mumbles something in local lingo about how warranty cannot be assured! If so. This officially is my tipping point.

Here I am taking the trouble of travelling 3 hours, paying some 400 bucks on ricks, losing out good 2 hours of my work hours to service a Maruti Swift Diesel in Bangalore and I have to listen to this???

I tap his (Guru guy) hand and tell him NOT to educate me about warranty of my car, which I very well know how to take care. Sensing my tone he hushes up and goes into hog wash, how they are helpless etc. Sachin on the other hand wants to find me Mobil Delvac; he is ready to sent technician to my house at my convenience to do the job. He inform the Manager in front of me that am a nut case who travels across town to this service station so that my whims are satisfied, whereas I just need to cross street to go to their branch to get the job done (no not really, he just said I take the pain of coming down from Kormangala).

I sense no resolution to my situation and cuts in and decide to pay and move on. Sachin again offers help and even sorts the billing stuff on my behalf while I wait. Meanwhile he is still making calls and trying to convince the other side the issue in hand. Finally he walks to me and informs me on his helplessness and how his superiors do not understand the situation. I understand that he even checked and confirmed with regional service engineer from MUL on Delvac being superior to Pride stuff.

END of Part 1.

What to expect in Part 2? what my intuition really was! which if correct (As in if we scientifically prove) would help Swift Diesel owners, and how I wandered JC road at 830 pm at night calling up few of my friends from TBHP and how my wife thinks that it’s time to sell the Swift and start using public transport because of all of the above.
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Old 6th May 2009, 00:46   #628
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Hope things work out for you, jaggu, waiting for part 2.
Me OTOH, am wondering when my turbo replacement is going to take place.

Last edited by rippergeo : 6th May 2009 at 00:48.
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Old 6th May 2009, 00:55   #629
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Post Wondering what the fuss is all about?

Lets get on some history and some trouble shooting, Team-BHP style.

There have been instances of people complaining that they don’t feel the original woosh that is associated with the Swift Diesel after sometime. We for a fact have confirmed that one of the factors can be a wrong oil change; the ideal quantity of oil is 2.9L without filter change and 3.1 liter with filters, (though manual says 3.5L). Anything more than this, the Turbo can throw tantrums. This apparently has been acknowledged by Maruti with their internal circular to the dealers. Maruti being proactive has even cautioned service stations regarding the oil quantity.

My experience so far with swift d engine oil, the car has gone through oil change every 5000 kms and always has been refilled with Mobil Delvac MX. It has never seen a garage apart from the authorized ones and no modifications on engine was done on the car till date. It has been consistently driven hard and delivered 14.5 to 17 kmpl in city and 18 to 24kmpl on highway drives.

On the other hand, few of our fellow members reported on dealers using Servo oil at service.

My first point of contention being Servo might not be the most apt oil for Swift Diesel DDIS engine.

Its aok for a normal city drive car, for the cars which are pushed and do lot of highway runs , the oil (servo) is not adequate. Ill explain this in detail later.

First request to fellow swift d owners, especially to those with lack of woosh phenomenon: could you please confirm if Servo was used at any point of time? How many kms the engine has run with this oil and to what extreme the engine was pushed? How was the climate, HOT summer or Cold Winter?

Now for some details on Servo oil follow this link http://www.iocl.com/downloads/lubes/...L%2015W-40.doc which says:

Quote:
DESCRIPTION
Servo Pride XL 15W-40 is API certified, premium commercial multipurpose diesel engine oil. The oil is designed for the most severe performance requirements of new generation diesel engines for on and off highway operations. It assures outstanding protection against high temperature engine deposits, oil degradation, oil thickening and corrosion resistance. The oil is having excellent shear stability to maintain viscosity under severe, high temperature operations. It exhibits outstanding control on soot induced thickening and soot induced wear.

APPLICATION
Servo Pride XL 15W-40 is recommended for new generation commercial diesel vehicles of both American and European design such as Caterpillar and Cummins operating on Heavy duty on-highway and off-highway equipments. It is tailored to the lubrication requirements of engines complying to EURO III. It is especially compounded for use with diesel fuel ranging in sulphur content upto 0.5% by wt.

PERFORMANCE BENEFITS
#Reduced engine scuffing and bore polishing.
# High engine cleanliness.
# Maximum protection from wear and deposits.
# Suitable for mixed fleet operation.
# Improved control of oil consumption.
# Easier cold starting.
# Excellent all weather performance due to improved cold weather properties.
# Has the potential to doubled the oil drain intervals compared to current diesel engine
oils.

PERFORMANCE STANDARDS
* API CH-4 Jaggu asks: Its not exceeding right?
* MB 228.3
* MACK EO-M Plus
* MAN 3275
* VOLVO VDS-2
* Cummins CES 20076
* ACEA E3-96

CHARACTERISTICS
SAE GRADE 15W-40
Kinematic Viscosity, cSt @ 100C 13.5 – 15.5
Viscosity Index, Min. 135
TBN, mg KOH/g 10.0 – 11.5
Flash Point, (COC)C, Min. 200
Pour Point C, Max. (-) 24
Where as Delvac MX is as mentioned here: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...delvac-mx.html (Delvac 1 or Delvac MX)
Most relevant parts are:

Quote:
Delvac MX -Multigraded commercial vehicle engine oil exceeds the requirements of API CI-4/CH-4/CG-4/CF-4/CF/SL/SJ

API CI-4 oils are superior in performance to those meeting API CH-4, CG-4 and CF-4 and may be used in engines calling for those API service categories.

The new API CI-4 category is backward compatible and Mobil Delvac MX 15W-40 meets or exceeds all previous active API categories, including CH-4/CG-4/CF-4/CF.

The added performance you get with the superior API CI-4 technology in Mobil Delvac MX 15W-40 provides the benefit of extended engine life reducing maintenance costs in new and old equipment alike. In addition, you can have the added protection of strong passing performance for Mobil Delvac MX
15W-40 in the seal compatibility test in API CI-4, a test that is not included in earlier API C categories. Please note the most benefit is obtained from using this product throughout the life
of your equipment.


According to Swift Manual: Oil should be API-CG4 or above which Servo is, if am not mistaken, but does that mean, the dealers should compromise using the same instead of Mobil Delvac which is CI-4?



Why is Maruti suggesting Servo in the first place, is it only as an alternative if Mobil is not available or can it be safely used and the engines put under same stress, especially in our demanding driving conditions and weather?



Debate/theories and intuition to be cont tomorrow.

Last edited by Jaggu : 6th May 2009 at 00:57.
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Old 6th May 2009, 01:02   #630
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Is the Servo pride cheaper than the Mobil Delvac? Maruti will use what is cheaper as there are many customers who will look at a cheaper service bill rather than the grade of oil being used. We are a minority. Surakashaa guys were wondering why I wanted SGP NGK spark plugs costing Rs.190 compared to TVS champion costing Rs.55. They were like Sir, for Alto it does not make any difference.
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