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Old 6th May 2009, 01:19   #631
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m coming back to this thread first thing in the morning. nearing my 20k service in a couple of days.
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Old 6th May 2009, 01:20   #632
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My Swift was taken to MASS for a distinct lack of Whoosh.
I have always used delvac MX or have used fully synthetic(Mobil 1, currently running OWS turbo racing) and the oil has always been changed under my direct observation.

The seals in the Swift Turbo are suspect. I'm not sure if its the oil by itself. but poor quality seals will be aggravated by inferior oils or oils that are too thin. Thats why lots of the defective swifts have turbochargers flooded with engine oil.

Greater engine load seems to help the oil break through the seals earlier.
Therefore,cars that are run harder seem to develop problems earlier.
Just theories. till maruti comes out with some honest info.

@jaggu- How is your car doing? Why is your missus against it? Its just a one off incident, and if the car is doing well, why worry?

Last edited by rippergeo : 6th May 2009 at 01:24.
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Old 6th May 2009, 08:11   #633
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Waiting for teh rest of your experience, Jaggu. I just managed to convince my bro to go in for a Swift D, and wanted to keep myself aware of what it takes to maintain one. I, for one have experience only with petrol cars.
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Old 6th May 2009, 08:41   #634
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Jaggu, sorry to hear about the experience.

Personally running a dzire VDi and have changed oil at 1K and 5K(both with filter change) and now nearing the 9K mark(car is 8 months old).

At both changes i have changed with Servo(the car comes with servo from the factory-according to my SA), even though i was aware of the API recommendations. I have never felt any drop in turbo performance or the turbo kick climbing up the RPM range.

Infact on two occasions have timed the 0-100kmp run(with a casio stop watch)-initially right after run-in and then at 6.6K kms as i felt the performance to be less. Both values(times were 14.32secs and 14.69 secs) were comparable-infact re-analysing the second i found the tyre pressures to be quite low.

I drive in 'Gods only will own country' and daily run is 40kms-includes 4.5 kms of 'ghat' sections(vattapara-vembayam region-trivandrum) and the rest on relatively smooth state highway. Driving speeds would average 40-50kmph and at sections do go over 110kmph regularly.

The turbo is well spooled(3.5-4K) for about 7kms daily and the only difference that i feel is that the abruptness of the turbo kick has come down its now more of a smoother transition between the 1800-2200 rpm range, how i reached this conclusion is that in 1st and 2nd gears the abrupt kinck is still there at 2K(not at higher speeds)-this might well be a human factor.

About the Oils well it could well be Maruti playing Penny pincher here(another classic example are the different tyre sizes-165 section and 185 section)-the Servo might well be the bare safe minimum(like the 165 section tyre) for the DDiS and the Mobil the actual recommended(like the 185 section)!!


So waiting for what happened afterwards-was the oil changed/if not is there any difference in performance?
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Old 6th May 2009, 10:17   #635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
Is the Servo pride cheaper than the Mobil Delvac?
Dont think so, bill is more than delvac, exact amount ill update later. My gut feel Servo offers better margin to dealer at bulk buy. Just a guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOR View Post
At both changes i have changed with Servo(the car comes with servo from the factory-according to my SA), even though i was aware of the API recommendations. I have never felt any drop in turbo performance or the turbo kick climbing up the RPM range.
I am quite sure from factory it comes with Delvac atleast in my car it was Delvac, which is clearer and thinner and less sticky to Servo.

I will update the story and why i am jumping around for such a silly matter like oil brand, which Maruti recommends. In a little while
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Old 6th May 2009, 11:10   #636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
I will update the story and why i am jumping around for such a silly matter like oil brand, which Maruti recommends. In a little while
The Yeti effect
Jaggu, please forgive me for using your thread. Let me know if I should take the turbo woe posts elsewhere.

The pull becoming linear as the kilometers build is what made me think that the turbo was deteriorating. Inspite of repeated complaints, MASS was never able to accept that it was a problem, till the turbo actually gave up completely.
It was attributed to, at various points,
1.Dirty air filter(was present)
2.oil in the intercooler(was present)
3.overfilling of oil(checked and cleared)
4.EGR system malfunction(not checked physically, but tech2 says its ok)
5.MAF sensor malfunction(checked and cleared)
6.Throttle position sensor malfunction(checked and cleared)
7.Boost leak(checked and cleared)
8.wastegate malfunction(checked and cleared)

Its possible that these problems were contributory to the loss of the turbo kick and the pull becoming more linear. but the main problem in my case, was always a gradually failing turbo.

Its easy to diagnose(now that I've gone through this circus).
Attach the tech 2, slot the car in 2nd or 3rd gear and watch the boost pressure.
At idle rpm(around 850 with the AC off) Boost should show atmospheric pressure i.e around 108kpa
when in 3rd gear, and accelerating(not maintaining steady speed) The boost should come to somewhere double that 210-220kpa at 2000rpm.
That level of boost comes slightly later in 2nd gear 2200 to 2400rpm.

Revving the engine with the car in neutral will not cause a rise in boost.
also, peak boost seems to build only while accelerating, once the car achieves the desired steady speed according to accelerator pedal position, boost will drop down to very low levels.

This is what I have been observing on Swift Ds fitted with a boost gauge.
I have not had the chance to confirm this with a Tech 2 from maruti. But results should be similar.

If anyone can do that(check with the tech 2) It will be useful. my long suffering MASS are probably sick and tired of seeing me and listening to my lectures.

There was a BHPians car I had TDed and felt via seat of pants dyno that the turbo was struggling(very mildly) he had got it looked at, and the readings checked out to his relief, but his was the only swift past 30k that I have driven and still had a decent turbo kick.

Maruti really need to pull up their socks about this.

Guys- if your swift's acceleration is linear, and without a kick, I suggest you get it looked at. The fuelling and ECU maps guarantee that the kick is always present,provided there is enough air supply(coming from the turbo), there is no reason for a run in to change the basic power delivery characteristics of an engine so much.

top speed achievable with a completely busted turbo is still pretty close to a normal car(around 160kmph) I know, i've tried The stock car should do 180kmph, given the road. So thats not a good way of checking turbo performance. acceleration figures are useful. but the best methods are tech 2 or an after market boost gauge. Tech2 preferable.
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Old 6th May 2009, 11:33   #637
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The posts of rippergeo in this thread is actually becoming a whole story itself. Also it is very educative and could be searched and referred. I would suggest the posts of rippergeo and related posts on his experiences of diagnosis and steps for remedy on the DDiS turbo be moved to a separate thread with apt title. This will be very helpful for future references on this subject.

The swit mentioned by him in the previous post is mine. Usually I am a sedate driver and not go beyond 80 kmph. So was not much aware of the turbo getting degraded. Once ripper TDd it, it was evident that the boost is not as before, and I am very thankful to him for giving the guidelines to get it checked and rectified.

I took it to MASS and they accepted that there is a delay as well as reduced boost in turbo kicking. They cleaned the intercooler and mentioned that oil was inside. I went for a TD with the technician with the tech2 connected and checked the turbo boost at various rpms and gears. The pressure boost figures was as mentioned by ripper. Only issue was in second gear the turbo acts only around 2400 rpm. Which is evident at downward slopes. If there is load, the turbo kicks earlier (around 2100 rpm). They have accepted to call the Maruti Engineer to check this.

Thats my part of the turbo story.

Last edited by abhilash_iv : 6th May 2009 at 11:35.
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Old 6th May 2009, 11:47   #638
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Thumbs down Part 2 - The oil verdict!

I take delivery at around 730 pm or later, so 1.5 hours went over debates and bill payment, am tired and just wanna get home with an explanation why i missed another family appointment Ripper i hope you can gather now why my wifee prefers public transport. Her plan is to snub the problem at the roots, ie get rid of the car and get me to keep other personal appointments.

Start the car, sounds kinda same maybe a lil coarse, Mobil will make the engine sound more crisp after oil change, i have noticed it all the time. I move on and car sure feels peppier, this is more to do with Air filter which has been changed.

I belong to old school and i go with the feel more than the meters while driving, if the engine is struggling i shift even if the RPM is within turbo band. So i drive in peak traffic and as and when i find a short open stretch i make the RPM do its dance. Car feels ok, traffic is really bad and am stuck in bumper to bumper with very hot engines and exhaust fumes all around. Engine temp has hit the usual half mark, radiator fan has kicked in couple of times and this is when you notice it.

New oil aint that great, engine sound has changed and it somehow doesnt feel right. I reach Mallya hospital and its choco bloc to Richmond, so i turn to JC road, sorry cant help it and i have to give it a try to get that can of Mobil Delvac. Knowing pretty well that it will be 830 ish and shops might have shut. Call up Vidyut and Condor and they both guide me to the oil shop, unfortunately all are shut. So i return to the car and drive back home.

Reach home and lift the dip stick and feel the oil, its HOT as expected and its sticky actually feels like that "gum stick" kinds. This is not the case with Mobil Delvac, i have checked when hot. Let the car cool overnight and today morning again i check the oil, between the fingers (sorry no scientific tools to support here).

My observations:
Servo is slightly thicker, and darker compared to Delvac. Delvac is oh so baby oil kinds while Servo feels more like dabur hair oil.
It seems to have a distinct stickiness between the fingers compared to Delvac. Delvac on the other hand is one bad *** to wipe off from fingers where as Servo came out with just a wipe of paper.
When heated up, Delvac definitely seemed to hold its consistency without much change, apart from the risk of burning the finger! Servo on the other hand was like a goovy stuff.

Verdict:

Everybody knows that modern engines are tougher, reliable and can afford greater service interval. That is if they are treated well with proper fuel and oil. Manufacturers have done the extra bit to educate the owners about this.

Swift DDIS engine seems no different and one needs to be choosy with the brew it is fed. Servo is NOT the best, Maruti seems to be aware of this and recommend Mobil as the preferred brew.

Has this awareness at MUL transferred to the dealer floor? i really doubt it and dealer is working with the more aggressively marketed product than the BEST product, which apparently is cheaper also!

About the dealership, lesser said is better. Having customer friendly service advisers front ending the customers is NOT good enough! It has to be backed up with support to SA from the Management side. Or else new players will take over the party.

As for me, i need help in locating 3.1 liters of Mobil Delvac MX or Mobil Delvac 1 (Synthetic one) and over the weekend do the oil change again. Some 1000 bucks down the drain! Anyways its required for my peace of mind, especially since i have some serious long distance dash at the end of the month and again next month.

Over to oil wars! I think even Mobil 1 doesnt cut in when it comes to DDIS engine.

End of report!
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Old 6th May 2009, 12:39   #639
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Hey Jaggu, Its great to read your posts and in the process learn a lot of good things about up keeping the car specially the DDIS which i too bought recently. I now for sure would be sticking to the Delvac when i get my first oil change at 1000 Kms.

Also my swift did come with the new dual horns and it sounds pretty loud compared to the ones which came earlier.

I have a little query of myself though. I upsized my tires to 195/60 /R15 but i still don't know whats the ideal tyre pressure i should keep. Some say 35 while others 33. Also my car just after the tyre and alloy upsize is dragging towards left by lets say 10deg instead of going dead straight. I noticed this just after the upsize but i could not go back to the tyre shop as i was going back to my home and was stuck in terrible traffic. It would have taken me about 45 minutes to get back to the shop and i knew that by that time the should would have been closed. Though i did called up the guy right then and he asked me to get the tyre pressure checked which i did and it was 35 flat on all 4 which i lowered to 33 but the problem still persists. Do i need to get a tire allignment and balancing done. The place where i got my tyre upgrade did not have the macinery to do the same otherwise i would it got it done right there.
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Old 6th May 2009, 12:44   #640
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Switch for starters try wheel alignment, if it doesnt sort the issue. Try swapping the tires from LT to RT and if they are directional tires you will need to remove em from rim and refit it on the other side rims. This should sort out the issue.

Wrt oil double check if they are using delvac or else you will have to carry it to them, they might not cooperate to purchasing oil from outside themselves, as was the case with RNS yeshwanthpur.
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Old 6th May 2009, 13:22   #641
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Quote:
Jaggu : ..I move on and car sure feels peppier, this is more to do with Air filter which has been changed.
@Jaggu, does the Swift have the rectangular & flat type air-filter ? If yes, it will help to do a cleaning before giving it for servicing, so you can compare the car before & after service, with a clean air filter. And avoid the stories the A.S.S may give.

Also, pls post cost of the Delvac, when you pick it up.
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Old 6th May 2009, 14:02   #642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
@Jaggu, does the Swift have the rectangular & flat type air-filter ? If yes, it will help to do a cleaning before giving it for servicing, so you can compare the car before & after service, with a clean air filter. And avoid the stories the A.S.S may give.

Also, pls post cost of the Delvac, when you pick it up.
Service never gave any report, that was my conclusion. I have previously done DIY cleaning of filter and i know the difference, hence can safely attribute it to the new air filter.

Difference in oil change is more evident from the way the car sounds and idles, especially when hot. This is definitely better with Delvac. Otherwise its very difficult to infer for a common person, especially when the oil is new.

My worries with Servo is again more to do with long term usage under extreme conditions and our unforgiving summer. It might be a good oil but NOT THE BEST for DDIS.
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Old 6th May 2009, 23:11   #643
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Got the oil http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub..._mx_15w-40.pdf from Spares & General Agencies in JC road, at first signal turn right small road on to the right. phone 22212513. Old man is sharp so be prepared for some talk and hard bargaining.

Also General Auto Spares said they can get it, but wanted me to come tomorrow. This is the first place i went, again in JC road, at first signal turn right small road on to the left. phone 22241818, 22241919, 22130257. He has ready stock of Mobil 1 though, so fans can contact this mallu shop

Picked up 5 liter can and paid 950 bucks, could have bargained but i was in a hurry and he was also closing and didnt want to dread another trip to JC Road for oil.
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Old 7th May 2009, 11:02   #644
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Oil changed to Delvac MX She is back to my taste, immediate difference, unlike Servo this one sounds darn silent once heated up completely. Dont see any difference with the pull in the peak hour traffic, will have to check this aspect when i take her out later in the evening.

I will let all this pass and take it as one darn expensive flush job with Servo!

Found out that the oil filter cap "bolt head" has lost 2 tooths, one had disappeared 2 or 3 services back, it will cost some 600 bucks and unfortunately RNS Hosur didnt have it in stock. Didnt want to risk and get stranded so filter was not removed to do a complete drain. Instead waited a lil longer for all the oil to drip out.

Surprisingly RNS Hosur seems to score really well in my book with each visit, and they even did the job without any payment though they opened the job card, reason give by the smiling SA was that i have already paid up in Yeshwanthpur, day before yday!

The Manager Gururaj is familiar to me the SA and the mech also were very sweet. Mech guy found a bolt in snowhites front bumper missing, mostly removed and not fitted back while horn was fixed. He put in a new bolt and tightened all the other bolts for bumper which were not tightened. The young kid went on to remove all the insulation tape mess on the bonnet lock and put a new strip.

See what difference it makes to the customer with small gestures which cost almost nothing!

@ Condor: If you are changing to delvac mx, feel free to collect 2 liter from me. Batch is slightly old Sep 06 but was a sealed can and was stored properly away from heat/sun etc. Picked it up since 3 years is safe shelf life for engine oils according to car bibles

Now for some wheel rotation, alignment and balancing act on Saturday morning and a 3M pamper later in the day.
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Old 7th May 2009, 13:51   #645
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Jaggu, Great going! It is always nice to see your ride back in action, as you wished!

Also good to see the pleasant experience at the A.S.S.

Other Swift owners: Maybe something that is worth a look!
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