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Old 7th May 2009, 14:45   #646
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Nice update.
Good to see that the car is back as per your taste.

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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
My first point of contention being Servo might not be the most apt oil for Swift Diesel DDIS engine.
Sorry Jaggu. Can't agree unless u have some technical data to prove it.
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Its aok for a normal city drive car, for the cars which are pushed and do lot of highway runs , the oil (servo) is not adequate. Ill explain this in detail later.
Hmm, if its only a case of ddis engine then i can't say much. But in my CRDi for 26k kms the CH4 Servo oil has performed without any issues. CI-4 oil would be better of course but CH4 ain't causing any harm either.

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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
could you please confirm if Servo was used at any point of time? How many kms the engine has run with this oil and to what extreme the engine was pushed? How was the climate, HOT summer or Cold Winter?[/u]
Jaggu.

Both Servo and Delvac are 15W40 which means identical working temp range. Isn't it ? So weather shoudn't be a factor.


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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
According to Swift Manual: Oil should be API-CG4 or above which Servo is, if am not mistaken, but does that mean, the dealers should compromise using the same instead of Mobil Delvac which is CI-4?

Why is Maruti suggesting Servo in the first place, is it only as an alternative if Mobil is not available or can it be safely used and the engines put under same stress, especially in our demanding driving conditions and weather?
At the moment, Maruti suggests and demands MASS to use Mobile Delvac Super and not Delvac MX.
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Originally Posted by TOR View Post
Infact on two occasions have timed the 0-100kmp run(with a casio stop watch)-initially right after run-in and then at 6.6K kms as i felt the performance to be less. Both values(times were 14.32secs and 14.69 secs) were comparable-infact re-analysing the second i found the tyre pressures to be quite low.
With these torque machines, the gear shifts has to very precise to get good 0-100 timings. IMO its not the right way to analyze the engine performance.
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Start the car, sounds kinda same maybe a lil coarse, Mobil will make the engine sound more crisp after oil change, i have noticed it all the time. I move on and car sure feels peppier, this is more to do with Air filter which has been changed.
Chetta
I think its just in your mind. You really re-define the word "pampering" for cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Reach home and lift the dip stick and feel the oil, its HOT as expected and its sticky actually feels like that "gum stick" kinds. This is not the case with Mobil Delvac, i have checked when hot. Let the car cool overnight and today morning again i check the oil, between the fingers (sorry no scientific tools to support here).

My observations:
Servo is slightly thicker, and darker compared to Delvac. Delvac is oh so baby oil kinds while Servo feels more like dabur hair oil.
It seems to have a distinct stickiness between the fingers compared to Delvac. Delvac on the other hand is one bad *** to wipe off from fingers where as Servo came out with just a wipe of paper.
When heated up, Delvac definitely seemed to hold its consistency without much change, apart from the risk of burning the finger! Servo on the other hand was like a goovy stuff.
Correct me if i'm wrong.
Aren't the above two statements in bold contradictory to each other?
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Old 7th May 2009, 15:00   #647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
My gut feel Servo offers better margin to dealer at bulk buy. Just a guess.
The pricing of the oil is set by Maruti Udyog, dealers don't have a say in this.

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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
My worries with Servo is again more to do with long term usage under extreme conditions and our unforgiving summer. It might be a good oil but NOT THE BEST for DDIS.
May be true for DDIS. But IMO the extreme weather conditions are here up north, Bangalore though crowded still has a pleasant weather.

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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Oil changed to Delvac MX She is back to my taste, immediate difference, unlike Servo this one sounds darn silent once heated up completely. Dont see any difference with the pull in the peak hour traffic, will have to check this aspect when i take her out later in the evening.

I will let all this pass and take it as one darn expensive flush job with Servo!

Found out that the oil filter cap "bolt head" has lost 2 tooths, one had disappeared 2 or 3 services back, it will cost some 600 bucks and unfortunately RNS Hosur didnt have it in stock. Didnt want to risk and get stranded so filter was not removed to do a complete drain. Instead waited a lil longer for all the oil to drip out.
Chetta

IMO u should have waited and got the filter changed as well.

Reading through the whole service episode again makes me feel MASS didn't replace it with genuine Servo CH4 oil.
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Old 7th May 2009, 15:34   #648
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Quote:
Jaggu : @ Condor: If you are changing to delvac mx, feel free to collect 2 liter from me. Batch is slightly old Sep 06 but was a sealed can and was stored properly away from heat/sun etc. Picked it up since 3 years is safe shelf life for engine oils according to car bibles
@Jaggu, thanks : 2 liters makes sense, since I can pick up a 5 liter can to come close to the 7.7 liter requirement I have. The truck's due for an oil change in June.

Quote:
kpzen : The pricing of the oil is set by Maruti Udyog, dealers don't have a say in this.
But the oil will be bought by the dealers by the barrel, from Indian Oil. It's not a MOS to be supplied by Maruti. So you know where the profits go.
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Old 7th May 2009, 15:46   #649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpzen View Post
Sorry Jaggu. Can't agree unless u have some technical data to prove it.

Mone, drive a car with delvac put servo in it and have another drive and see for yourself, it doesnt require expert senses to make out.

Hmm, if its only a case of ddis engine then i can't say much. But in my CRDi for 26k kms the CH4 Servo oil has performed without any issues. CI-4 oil would be better of course but CH4 ain't causing any harm either.

We are not talking about Getz CRDi here, are we? dont want to get into a comparison which engine is more complicated, has better tolerance, tougher, better engine here. Only time will tell that.

Jaggu.

Both Servo and Delvac are 15W40 which means identical working temp range. Isn't it ? So weather shoudn't be a factor.

Check for flash point, temperature diff of 5-10 deg means alot then, its not as simple as 15w40. Again if your car has EGR Servo is not the best, read up, enough amount of info on this from different sites. Start with car bibles.

At the moment, Maruti suggests and demands MASS to use Mobile Delvac Super and not Delvac MX.

But MUL uses both super aka 1300, Servo and MX i have the bills to prove. If you read back, i have seen the email from Maruti to RNS, which recommends Servo also! with email ids and not just another print out!

On the other hand the difference between Super/1300 and MX is almost zilch, actually for certain europen norms for emission MX is better. Please read the detailed spec from Mobil site for more. Again dont get carried away with Mobil super specs from other countries which will say CJ+ also, its different to ones sold in India


Chetta
I think its just in your mind. You really re-define the word "pampering" for cars.

Correct me if i'm wrong.
Aren't the above two statements in bold contradictory to each other?
Aniya maybe yes am nuts, but i think i have had enough oil flow inside my cars engines to know if it really makes a difference or just a placebo. Different story all together that some engines dont like certain oils even if they are better.

Reg the statements, let me clarify/communicate more clearly, though Servo "seems" to be sticky it might not be really great in protecting since it comes out with single wipe! ON THE OTHER HAND Mobil has a better adhesion which means protection. A very unscientific observation by me using my hands! nevertheless its evident. ps: its my way of writing, lil sarcasm and bad humor, kshemi lol


Quote:
Originally Posted by kpzen View Post
The pricing of the oil is set by Maruti Udyog, dealers don't have a say in this.

May be true for DDIS. But IMO the extreme weather conditions are here up north, Bangalore though crowded still has a pleasant weather.

Chetta

IMO u should have waited and got the filter changed as well.

Reading through the whole service episode again makes me feel MASS didn't replace it with genuine Servo CH4 oil.
Why dont you try a better oil in your car, you might really jump up and down in your ownership thread with a better top speed. Effect of servo on ddis cars running up north as well as south of blr will definitely be more adverse. Now you know why we love this city Dealer hasnt fooled me since first thing i check is how the oil is after service.

Filters part yes, but i have done the extra bit to get oil out and the position of the filter is such that it doesnt hold much oil once the drain plug is removed in ddis. Observe an oil change and you will know. Its inverted sits on top (almost at the level of engine head) and its very diff construction compared to your common filters out there. But still i could have put the extra effort and no denying that or suggesting to anyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
@Jaggu, thanks : 2 liters makes sense, since I can pick up a 5 liter can to come close to the 7.7 liter requirement I have. The truck's due for an oil change in June.

But the oil will be bought by the dealers by the barrel, from Indian Oil. It's not a MOS to be supplied by Maruti. So you know where the profits go.
Yes and yes to the above. Will hand over the oil ONLY IF YOU DONT PULL that stunt, like you did last time around!

Last edited by Jaggu : 7th May 2009 at 15:53.
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Old 7th May 2009, 16:09   #650
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I had a practical demonstration of what difference an oil can make. This was about 1990, and I had a VW Golf (not a fancy one, but it was nice, and I was its first driver) as a company car.

There was a nagging problem when changing between two gears (I forget which) making that particular change stiff and difficult. When I took the car for service, they said they would drain the gearbox and refill with synthetic oil. I was really dubious that this could make a difference to what felt like a mechanical fault. They assured me that it was the first thing to try, and that, having been logged within the warranty period, the problem would continue to be covered if it was not fixed.

It was totally fixed. The replacement of this liquid moving part in the gear box made for immediate smooth and easy gear changes.

What's more, it made the stereo sound so much better too.



(just kidding on that last point)
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Old 7th May 2009, 16:19   #651
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Quote:
Jaggu : Will hand over the oil ONLY IF YOU DONT PULL that stunt, like you did last time around!
Awrighty. May be I'll think up something new then !
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Old 7th May 2009, 16:25   #652
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Thad actually it improves my stereo also Let me explain, my Pio has some noise correction built into it, by which the HU raises the volume when other noise in the car increases. Voila so with a more silent engine no unnatural tweaks from stereo giving a better sound!

I checked the IOC site again, apparently they make oils specially for Skoda and Hyundai Crdi. Skoda one has better specs so for IOC fans, a better bet. Hyundai Crdi ones are same as PRIDE XL

Seriously KP am not saying it will harm your cars engine anyway, but try out a better oil, especially since its running Pete's and all. You will have a better performing car and its not expensive at all, so you can have frequent changes without worry on pocket unlike a synthetic brew.

Last edited by Jaggu : 7th May 2009 at 16:27.
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Old 7th May 2009, 19:24   #653
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Post Some useful info about Mobil Delvac

In short forget the huplaah about Delvac/Super etc, just the spec change from CH4 to CI helps. So ensure you get higher spec oil irrespctiove of brand. I had done a random check on Castrol, Shell etc in India, none of them had better grade stuff for Diesels Petrol cars are luckier!

Hope i have given some scientific info gathered from Mobil site, yes it has marketing funda's alright, still they would have done some amount of R&D before they put this up.

ps: info is dated 2004, so Super which was launched later should be better.

Quote:
CI-4
The key performance advantages of reformulated Mobil Delvac MX 15W-40 include the ability to withstand higher temperatures, handle increased amounts of soot, and reduce corrosive and general engine wear. Now, more than ever, Mobil Delvac MX 15W-40 extends engine life!

HEAT - Modern diesel engines run hotter which can reduce oil and engine life. As oil oxidation rates typically double with every 10C increase, lower quality oils will degrade faster resulting in viscosity increase and acid generation. New Mobil Delvac MX 15W-40 provides over 25% more protection against oil oxidation than an API CH-4 oil.

WEAR - Changing combustion control designs are increasing loads, soot and acid generation in modern diesel engines. These new designs can introduce combustion gases to the oil that can form corrosive acids. These are most aggressive towards softer metals found in bearings and bushings, but other engine parts are vulnerable. Mobil Delvac MX 15W-40 reduces corrosive wear at higher operating temperatures by resisting oxidation and improving bearing protection by more than 20% compared to an API CH-4 oil. In addition it provides added protection to other parts.

SOOT - Increasing soot levels are common with many modern diesel engines and hard-working older designs as well. Inadequate soot handling can shorten drain intervals, increase deposits and cause wear that can shorten engine life. Mobil Delvac MX 15W-40 provides over 20% better soot-related viscosity control than an API CH-4 oil. Exceeding API CI-4 Performance Standards.

Last edited by Jaggu : 7th May 2009 at 19:25.
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Old 7th May 2009, 20:49   #654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu
my Pio has some noise correction built into it, by which the HU raises the volume when other noise in the car increases.
Oye which model is this
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Old 7th May 2009, 21:11   #655
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Oye which model is this
arre i thought it was a common thing in Pio's? its a 7000 series from 2003 i guess. I dont remember the exact number, will check and let you know.
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Old 7th May 2009, 21:23   #656
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Originally Posted by Technocrat View Post
Oye which model is this
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
arre i thought it was a common thing in Pio's? its a 7000 series from 2003 i guess. I dont remember the exact number, will check and let you know.
I think your taking about the SLA feature?
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Old 7th May 2009, 22:16   #657
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I think your taking about the SLA feature?
aah yes SLA it is, source or sound level a???
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Old 7th May 2009, 22:53   #658
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Thumbs up reply from Mobil india!

Useful info for bangalore guys especially, where to get oil from. Thank you Mr Kishore, this will help many of us.

Quote:
Dear Mr Jayakrishnan,

Thanks for the enquiry for Mobil Lubricants.
Our Distributors are located in Bangalore and they will get in touch with
you tomorrow and will help you get the right oil.
Currently we can supply you Mobil Delvac MX which will be ideal for your
car as you mentioned as it is the best in class diesel engine oil
available.
Recently we have launched a product called Mobil Super 1000 MS IN 3.5 Lt
Pack specially for Maruti Swift Diesel.

I am giving contact details of my distributor for your reference.

M/S Speed Away Ltd
Near JC Road,Bangalore.
Contact Person:Mr K.Prasad ,Branch Manager
41496502.

Note to Mr Prasad k:Please attend to the customer immediately and report.

For any other support please contact me at 984xxxxxx.

Regards,

V.L.Kishore
ExxonMobil Lubricants Pvt Ltd
Area manager,Automotive Retail sales,
Hyderabad.
Ph.984xxxxx
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Old 7th May 2009, 23:58   #659
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Thad actually it improves my stereo also Let me explain, my Pio has some noise correction built into it, by which the HU raises the volume when other noise in the car increases. Voila so with a more silent engine no unnatural tweaks from stereo giving a better sound!
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
aah yes SLA it is, source or sound level a???
Your stereo has a Service Level Agreement? Wow!

but I have heard of HUs that adjust volume against car speed, but simply measuring ambient noise sounds simpler and more effective. Must watch out for that if I ever get around to that sound system (its been two years)...
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Old 8th May 2009, 08:37   #660
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Useful info for bangalore guys especially, where to get oil from. Thank you Mr Kishore, this will help many of us.

Jaggu, Is this applicable to the Indica Vista Quadrajet? My Brother In Law's car has clocked 5000 kms and is due for a service.
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