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Old 8th May 2009, 09:45   #661
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Check with the dealer first, they might be already using the same oil. If not if the grade is the same no harm in trying out Mobil.

ps: i dont have anything to do with Mobil and just sharing my experience having used the oil in my car for over 30,000 kms.
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Old 8th May 2009, 09:54   #662
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Originally Posted by condor View Post
But the oil will be bought by the dealers by the barrel, from Indian Oil. It's not a MOS to be supplied by Maruti. So you know where the profits go.
Ok agreed but still the profit ain't that much. In case of Castrol earlier the margin was huge but IOC Servo doesn't provide that much of margin.
Anyways, now the recommended engine oil for DDIS is Mobil Delvac Super and not Servo.

Jaggu.
I was just sharing whatever info i have but you seem to be too trigger happy.


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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Mone, drive a car with delvac put servo in it and have another drive and see for yourself, it doesnt require expert senses to make out.
Been there, Done that.
Two Getz CRDi in the family, One runs with Delvac and mine with Petes runs with Servo. Except for the engine noise nothing to distinguish between the two and to be specific both have equal quantity of 5.3 litres. More than the oils its the running in which plays a major role in terms of engine's performance during the long run.

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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
We are not talking about Getz CRDi here, are we? dont want to get into a comparison which engine is more complicated, has better tolerance, tougher, better engine here. Only time will tell that.
I'm also not asking for a comparison. I only mentioned the word CRDi not Getz and that too when you said Servo isn't suitable for DDIS. If it was true then DDIS would have caused an epidemic failure in field by now. Peace.

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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Check for flash point, temperature diff of 5-10 deg means alot then, its not as simple as 15w40.
Flash point !! Where did that come from??
I guess you were talking of ambient temperatures and Flash point has nothing to do with ambient temp. Flash point is almost 3times of any extreme ambient temp (50 degrees).

Of all things, why do u keep saying extreme conditions that too in bangalore.?? Come up north here and with ambient temp of 46 degrees i guess you will start changing oils every month.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Again if your car has EGR Servo is not the best,
An engine oil is chosen by the manufacturer only after doing a complete reliability test, which in some cases is run for 50k kms.
If they start choosing oils on the basis of feel then that would only invite epidemic failure from field.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
read up, enough amount of info on this from different sites. Start with car bibles.
Thanks !
As and when required, I've a walking oil bible at home who has more than 34 yrs of practical experience in engine oil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
But MUL uses both super aka 1300, Servo and MX i have the bills to prove. If you read back, i have seen the email from Maruti to RNS, which recommends Servo also! with email ids and not just another print out!
Arrey baba !! When did i ask for any proof ?
All i know is Maruti asks all MASS here to put Mobil Delvac Super in DDIS.

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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
On the other hand the difference between Super/1300 and MX is almost zilch, actually for certain europen norms for emission MX is better. Please read the detailed spec from Mobil site for more. Again dont get carried away with Mobil super specs from other countries which will say CJ+ also, its different to ones sold in India
Ayyo !!
I was just trying to share some info.
When did i try to prove Super is superior to MX ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Why dont you try a better oil in your car, you might really jump up and down in your ownership thread with a better top speed. Effect of servo on ddis cars running up north as well as south of blr will definitely be more adverse. Now you know why we love this city Dealer hasnt fooled me since first thing i check is how the oil is after service.
Thanks ! Don't have the b@lls to cross 210kph !!



Chill and drive safe.

Last edited by kpzen : 8th May 2009 at 10:00.
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Old 8th May 2009, 10:24   #663
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Originally Posted by kpzen View Post
Thanks !
As and when required, I've a walking oil bible at home who has more than 34 yrs of practical experience in engine oil.
My brother-in-law is a senior executive in Indian Oil. According to him IOC oils are the best and TATA, Maruti etc are huge volume customers. In fact some engine oil companies buy in volume from IOC and sell in the retail market putting their brand names. The problem with the retail packs of IOC branded oil is that they are not marketed well. Maybe IOC is not interested in that segment of the market.
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Old 8th May 2009, 11:04   #664
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kpzen replies in line in BOLD, was in a hurry so couldnt type in detail, friday fury at office.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpzen View Post
Ok agreed but still the profit ain't that much. In case of Castrol earlier the margin was huge but IOC Servo doesn't provide that much of margin. Anyways, now the recommended engine oil for DDIS is Mobil Delvac Super and not Servo.

no sir, Maruti recommends both! Only thing they would still prefer Super!

Jaggu.
I was just sharing whatever info i have but you seem to be too trigger happy.

Yes i was, coz you seem to be arguing without much proof either.

Been there, Done that.
Two Getz CRDi in the family, One runs with Delvac and mine with Petes runs with Servo. Except for the engine noise nothing to distinguish between the two and to be specific both have equal quantity of 5.3 litres. More than the oils its the running in which plays a major role in terms of engine's performance during the long run.

Whatever works for you, thats all i can say. I have stopped convincing non believers these days. Still can you elaborate the difference in engine sound, please?

I'm also not asking for a comparison. I only mentioned the word CRDi not Getz and that too when you said Servo isn't suitable for DDIS. If it was true then DDIS would have caused an epidemic failure in field by now. Peace.

How do you know it is NOT failing? i also ignored the posts on my thread earlier. But dont you think its getting lil out of hand these days?

So we need to find out the truth, if the product (car/engine/turbo) is bad i will be the first to point out, i dont care if i own it or not. If i know how to praise it, i very well know how to criticize whats wrong in it also!

And i think thats what this forum is all about!


Flash point !! Where did that come from??
I guess you were talking of ambient temperatures and Flash point has nothing to do with ambient temp. Flash point is almost 3times of any extreme ambient temp (50 degrees).

Of all things, why do u keep saying extreme conditions that too in bangalore.?? Come up north here and with ambient temp of 46 degrees i guess you will start changing oils every month.

Dude, cars which do long hauls/trips like mine (1000 kms in a day at times) go through some harsh environment in multiple states. Interior of TN cannot be termed as pleasant climate, same with Karnataka. BLR will account for only 30% of my drive if you look at the 30k kms it has done.

Peak traffic where car is crawling in 1-2 gears in bumper to bumper environment will replicate very HOT climate even in a city like Bangalore. ps: Right now we have already seen 37 deg, so its getting hotter here also :(

Relevance of flash point is wrt what happens inside the engine, new direct injection engines run hotter compared to older generation ones, turbo's add more heat, EGR further worsens and tighter emissions close the deal = need of better oil for lube.


An engine oil is chosen by the manufacturer only after doing a complete reliability test, which in some cases is run for 50k kms.
If they start choosing oils on the basis of feel then that would only invite epidemic failure from field.

Cant i be overambitious and point out a probable oversight from manufacturers side? And do you mean Servo is recommended by MUL by the above statement? or still believe i was fooled by my dealer, along with couple of thousand others from different dealership?


Thanks !
As and when required, I've a walking oil bible at home who has more than 34 yrs of practical experience in engine oil.

Wont dispute that! Experience matters! and i absolutely dont know the other person, respect!

Though technology has also advanced, sometimes requiring relearning the way things are done. i do it all the time. If you can share some of the real thoughts from other side, i would really love to listen.

egs: A person whom i met (day before yday) who sells oils for last 40 years in JC road got into an argument with me about oil shelf life. I tried telling him when i say oil shelf life, it might be the additives in newer oils which might be breaking down rather than oil itself. Storage is an important factor for oils etc etc Then again these are interesting conversations by which one learns.


Arrey baba !! When did i ask for any proof ?
All i know is Maruti asks all MASS here to put Mobil Delvac Super in DDIS.

One last time, MASS here got email from MUL that they can use servo also. Many of the dealers including Indus in kerala, some others in delhi, mumbai are using Servo as the recommended MUL brew. Read the posts by other members yaar!

Ayyo !!
I was just trying to share some info.
When did i try to prove Super is superior to MX ?

All i have to say is that your experience is with a different engine from a different manufacturer, sharing that here has helped very little in trying to resolve an "alleged fault/failure" and maybe a resolution.

Thanks ! Don't have the b@lls to cross 210kph !!

get some better brakes and find a clean stretch, you dont need balls for top speeds lol

Chill and drive safe.
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Old 8th May 2009, 11:08   #665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tortoiseNhare View Post
My brother-in-law is a senior executive in Indian Oil. According to him IOC oils are the best and TATA, Maruti etc are huge volume customers. In fact some engine oil companies buy in volume from IOC and sell in the retail market putting their brand names. The problem with the retail packs of IOC branded oil is that they are not marketed well. Maybe IOC is not interested in that segment of the market.
Sir am not disputing IOC is good or bad!

Here we have an issue with the finer spec of oil used in an engine which is designed in a particular way. And more than the brand the rating of CI better than CH is being discussed and how it may help the engine run longer without hic ups.

Why manufacturer like MUL allows dealers to use such an oil?

This is the debate all about.

ps: I vouch by IOC fuel in my petrol and diesel cars!

Disclaimer: All of these are my personal observation with my limited technical know how and actual user experience. My car doesnt have any lost power syndrome yet!

If others feel am raking up a NON ISSUE for just proving my point, i will be more than happy to share my thoughts only with those who face the issue and guide them over PM.

No hard feelings

pps: The old gentleman whom i met the other day, seemed to be a well educated person, speaking fluent english, hindi and kannada and seems to know his oils quite well and was receptive to me to an extent, while carefully protecting his business interest.

Last edited by Jaggu : 8th May 2009 at 11:25. Reason: Disclaimer put
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Old 8th May 2009, 11:20   #666
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Jaggu, firstly thankyou for this lovely thread which really helps knowing DDiS in much better way,also all your tips regarding maintaining and improving swift diesel is impounding and your DIY"s were superb help, though dont own swift diesel but surely going to be in near future, keep updating and sharing your skills, for a not so tech knowledge person like me really finds this thread very helpful knowing one's ride in much better way, one query K&N site says wash filters with shampoo and dry them and fix it again after they are dry , as you mentioned to blow and clean, isnt cleaning by washing recomended for stock filters? Thanks in advance.
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Old 8th May 2009, 11:37   #667
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Originally Posted by vijaythacker View Post
one query K&N site says wash filters with shampoo and dry them and fix it again after they are dry , as you mentioned to blow and clean, isnt cleaning by washing recomended for stock filters? Thanks in advance.
Stock filter are different from K&N and are paper pulp based, washing will distroy them, so dont try that.

Also for K&N, cleaning kit is available with wash instructions as well as oil which is required to be smeared once filter is washed and dried. Use them for best results.

My pleasure and hope this info helps others.
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Old 8th May 2009, 12:35   #668
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I am in concurrence with Jaggu.

In my experience, just by the feel of the car, Mobil Delvac and Delo400 (Both CI+) are much better than Shell (CH). In fact, the difference was so much that I got rid of the shell much earlier than my normal change interval.
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Old 8th May 2009, 12:42   #669
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Maybe a good idea to list out CI or CI+ spec oils available in India for Diesel engines.

- Delo400
- Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 (oh so elusive synthetic, though published on india site)
- Mobil Delvac Super 1300 15W-40
- Mobil Delvac MX 15W-40
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Old 8th May 2009, 12:48   #670
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Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
I am in concurrence with Jaggu.

In my experience, just by the feel of the car, Mobil Delvac and Delo400 (Both CI+) are much better than Shell (CH). In fact, the difference was so much that I got rid of the shell much earlier than my normal change interval.
Hey Eddy, can you provide me the details of Mobil dealer in Delhi/ncr?
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Old 8th May 2009, 13:29   #671
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Quote:
kpzen : Ok agreed but still the profit ain't that much. In case of Castrol earlier the margin was huge but IOC Servo doesn't provide that much of margin.
@KP, if IOC doesnt give a similar price for that barrel, as the others do, they will lose their market share.

Even for retail packages, the margin is huge. Consider STP oil additive. Retail price of a can is 250/-. The retailer got this same can at less than 170/-.


Quote:
kpzen : An engine oil is chosen by the manufacturer only after doing a complete reliability test, which in some cases is run for 50k kms.
So, can the car manufacturer prove that, an oil from one company is safe for their engines, while oil of the same rating from another manufacturer will damage the same engine ?

Recommendataion by a car manfucaturer for a such items is also a kind of marketing by the oil company.

Last edited by condor : 8th May 2009 at 13:31.
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Old 8th May 2009, 14:30   #672
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Hey Eddy, can you provide me the details of Mobil dealer in Delhi/ncr?
Actually, I chose Delo over Mobil because of availability. While scouting around for a Mobil dealer did not lead me to one conveniently located, an email to the Chevron guys ensured that the local distributor delivered Delo400 at my doorstep. So it was the Delo for me. Mobil was used only when the MASS used it.
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Old 8th May 2009, 14:48   #673
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So, can the car manufacturer prove that, an oil from one company is safe for their engines, while oil of the same rating from another manufacturer will damage the same engine ?
My contention is lil different, Oil with lower rating (CH) from X manufacturer being recommended by the Car dealer/Manufacturer, where as Oil with better rating (CI) from Y was being used all this while?Price has also increased with decrease of rating, lets blame it on inflation and ignore the last bit So what is the advantage we get as consumers? easy availability if i crack my sump on a highway? It just doesnt make sense to me!

On a side note, with oils they always say that one should upgrade and try not to downgrade as much as possible (dont bring in old overused engine into this, its a different matter altogether). Which is what is happening while moving from CI to CH, maybe the difference might be little, make it microscopic that problem might occur in 1 out of 1,000 or 10,000 cars.

As an owner my request is that, this decision maybe left to me, even if its cost factor they can pick up the phone and check. I expect and Trust the BEST AVAILABLE service, spares and consumables when i pay a premium service charge by approaching an Authorized dealer. Otherwise am quite happy with my local shop who will do the job equally well, maybe some amount of supervision and pestering might be required.

Nobody at an indian dealership would even have thought or are competent to decide about oil specs when they sign up a new contract or order, they just go for "* x manufacturer recommended" and just sign up with the one offering best margin. I think thats the ground reality.

Maybe a nut case like me noticed the above, what about 1000's of other customers who are paying a premium and taken for a ride, by trusting what an authorized dealership offers?

I had 100 bucks as nitrogen filling in my bill, its ridiculous of them to top up my tires with nitrogen (without my consent) and charge me 100 bucks! 50 cars a day = 5000 bucks! Such are the ways of Indian dealership. i didnt bother even to point it out that day with the oil thing in my head lol.

@condor: call the authorized oil dealer number i posted, when you want the oil they will do home delivery

@eddy: i similarly emailed Mobil, rather posted as a querie in their site and was responded back in 48 hours. Unfortunately i had picked up the stuff before that.

Last edited by Jaggu : 8th May 2009 at 14:54.
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Old 8th May 2009, 15:14   #674
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Originally Posted by Technocrat View Post
Oye which model is this
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
arre i thought it was a common thing in Pio's? its a 7000 series from 2003 i guess. I dont remember the exact number, will check and let you know.
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Originally Posted by s0uljah View Post
I think your taking about the SLA feature?
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
aah yes SLA it is, source or sound level a???
Well SLA(Source Level Adjustment) needs to be set manually & its basically done to equalize difference in sound out of different sources mainly radio & CD.

Also even if its SLA I am not aware of any PIO model which does it automatically so would be interesting to know.

Jaggu does the HU also have Bluetooth?
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Old 8th May 2009, 15:21   #675
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Well SLA(Source Level Adjustment) needs to be set manually & its basically done to equalize difference in sound out of different sources mainly radio & CD.

Also even if its SLA I am not aware of any PIO model which does it automatically so would be interesting to know.

Jaggu does the HU also have Bluetooth?
oops sorry then its not SLA, dont have the manual with me. This one increases the volume when the road environment noise etc increases in the car. It has 3 levels, low-med-high IIRC. I have set it at low since high will jack up the volume even with a small thud from the road!

Nope mine is a cassette player era pio KEH P705x, should have posted the detail in the first swift update thread. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/414012-post74.html
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