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Old 26th May 2009, 22:44   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benbsb29 View Post
Did wading through water contribute to this mess? OMG! :O
Doesnt the CRV have better ground clearance than most cars?
If not that, how else does one explain the USP of the CRV?

Lets hope they decide to foot the cost, without damages to your wallet, Jaggu.
Well, if you read his posts in the last page, you'll notice that it got washed under a wall of water thanks to a truck.
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Old 26th May 2009, 22:53   #62
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Unless the water is in a huge quantity, there will not be any damage due to water. Some cars had ( read it in motortrend ) intake that is very low ( in developed markets ), and the intake does take in some water, but this will not be sufficient to damage the mill. There is some term called hydroformated or something like that, means that the water will be evaporated with absolutely no damage.

But if the water is in huge quantity, then obviously damage will be there.
Bent valves ? Connecting rod broken ? Damn, this is interference engine and if these parts are damages, the bill would run really high.

I wonder how come just some amount of water can create so much damage. We have faced these wall of water in our M800 and Baleno, but none of them have given problem.
An year ago, when dad and mom were on a trip in Gujarat, there was some sort of storm, lots of rain and for most of the trip, half of baleno's wheels were under water, and sometimes water level was quite high and we did face those walls of water, but we did not suffer any damage.
I am posting the above incident just to indicate that things might have started going into negative direction for the engine before the water issue came up. It might be that finally water came in and the problem cropped up high enough to get attention.

And the cost of labor is very high for this car. Honda service cost have gone up in last few years it seems.
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Old 26th May 2009, 22:54   #63
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Well this is certainly not the first time this has happened:

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...-together.html
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Old 26th May 2009, 23:20   #64
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Let me make it VERY CLEAR! NO WATER HAS ENTERED FROM THE INTAKE SIDE! Checked and confirmed by the dealer, only suspect is exhaust which is a very minuscule of chance.

This is the reason why i insisted on thorough check before opening up, but apparently no diagnosis of the sound also. Hence no choice but to open the engine up :(

Also car was running perfectly fine, even at idle (read as no misfire, power loss etc). Just tappet sound (sounds like one tappet) and that too audible only at idle.

Air intake is a snorkle CAI which sits just below the bonnet cover, ruling out flooding since water level was only till door level even when car conked off. No water entered the cabin when door was opened, as proof.

EDIT: Car was pushed out of water after it stopped. Driver had waited for a while and had seen all the water gush out (thanks to the incline where it was parked) then it was push started. I dont know if water was sucked in/damage done from exhaust side before restart, since a truck CAN cause a decent wave formation from behind the Crv when it decided to overtake and woosh past. Exhaust is on RT hand side and truck overtook from LT side.

These are the details i have come to understand.

On the other hand, driver had reported lack of grunt at higher revs (vtec not opening) at the last service according to him, which the dealer dismissed off to poor fuel quality or a clogged fuel filter, which they would check. I had driven the car after this though, and during the late night return from Indira Nagar i didnt face any issue when i was driving at Vtec range.

Dont think i have anymore details to add as of now.

EDIT 2: TheMag has posted a link inside the thread Vidyut has given and my only worry about water damage is mentioned below from that link Driving emergencies, driving through floods

Quote:
In some cases a stalled engine can result in water being sucked back through the exhaust into the cylinders - this can cause extensive and expensive damage. Do not change gear because this can also cause water to be sucked back through the exhaust (due to the change in engine speed and manifold depression)
Then again it should be a less severe in this case since its causing only a tappet sound.

Apparently Crv engine bay doesnt allow one to lift the head alone and check for valves/head damage and the whole engine/gear box assembly has to be brought down. Same for clutch replacement also.

Coming to think of it Swift D took to water better than Crv when the wave went over the bonnet first quarter, but the engine never stalled lol

Last edited by Jaggu : 26th May 2009 at 23:43.
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Old 28th May 2009, 12:42   #65
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Unhappy Update 2!

Yesterday evening they had downed the engine, i had asked them to first check the head and valves before opening up further.

Today the SA called me and informed that head, valves all turned out to be aok! He checked with me if they can go further, i have instructed them to go ahead based on Honda's instructions, since they know their engines best.

So water damage seems to be getting ruled out, no visible indications/scarring.

Seems like a freak part failure and am clueless so is Whitefield Honda, to whats wrong

Weekend drive can be safely ruled out and alternate arrangement made, family friends Camry will make it for the trip.
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Old 28th May 2009, 14:21   #66
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I suspect the Rings and bearings. They may look ok but have to be removed and inspected properly.
Also ECU.
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Old 28th May 2009, 14:53   #67
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ECU came out clean in the scan, still cant be ruled out. Now piston, rings, con rod and bearings are going to be checked.

But the question is how? Can a push start cause all this? and how the hell did the car stall in the first place and did not crank, if not for water? No errors, no engine check indicators glowing after starting? It had run hardly 5 kms after being parked for the whole day before this fiasco. And was still running fine, if not for the sound.
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Old 28th May 2009, 20:59   #68
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Unhappy Verdict is out, look forward to a nice hefty bill!

Head was opened, no problemo. Next step lift the cylinder and what do we have here.

Cylinder 1-3 all fine, 4th cylinder, nice mark on the sleeve! chipped on the top!

Honda CRV, Update: 80,000 kms and pathetic Honda service!-28052009070.jpg

Honda CRV, Update: 80,000 kms and pathetic Honda service!-28052009071.jpg

Lift the cylinder, piston rings broken (i guess) and con rod bent like a banana!

Honda CRV, Update: 80,000 kms and pathetic Honda service!-28052009068.jpg

Con rods need to look like this!

Honda CRV, Update: 80,000 kms and pathetic Honda service!-28052009069.jpg

Part not readily available, so once the estimate is given and okayed (tomorrow), place order and replace whatever is required.

Moral of the story: Crv is a soft roader, it cant do river wading and even if you attempt during an emergency/unavoidable situation, dont take that foot off that accelerator thingie! OR water will get sucked in and then one bad move will land you with a huge tab!

Murphy is always with us and the lesser possible scenario of exhaust sucking in water has happened in this case.

Will take a moment to Thank Honda and Whitefield Honda for their patience so far, in dealing with our situation.

Last edited by Jaggu : 28th May 2009 at 21:08.
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Old 28th May 2009, 21:19   #69
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Ouch, that looks painful. And expensive. Are they going to resleeve the motor?
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Old 28th May 2009, 21:20   #70
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I dont think sleeve is an option with Honda, chuck the block and get a new set. Even am not sure sleeve is the right thing to do, since its going to be only one cylinder. Anyways will be able to confirm by tomorrow.
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Old 28th May 2009, 23:33   #71
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What the damage, that too a Honda engine. I am not sure how can this happen. Push starting cannot cause this and if this cylinder is to be affected, then another cylinder must also show some damage, but the problem is with only one cylinder.

Can you please confirm that it was the water and/or the pushstart that caused this ?

I am confused by the amount of damage. Is the crankshaft also affected ?
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Old 28th May 2009, 23:38   #72
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Ah so the faint sound was the con rod hitting the cylinder. lol.

That looks horribly expensive and shows that the CR-V is a delicate darling.

Jaggu, that's sure shot water damage. I'm still wondering how the car stalled. Did the driver not rev it?

Are you sure it's not through the air filter?
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Old 28th May 2009, 23:47   #73
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Crank is fine, water would have entered the 4th cylinder first and caused the stalling, when suck back happened. Why 4th cylinder, by the very nature of cylinder firing/stalling sequence, design of the header (lowest) etc.

Car stalled with this. Wouldnt crank, but then the situation was such that, car had to be push started and moved out of way, and while doing that the affected con rod bent with water inside the cylinder.

Unlike Petrol, Water doesnt compress nor does it combust and becomes harder than steel and this is what happens afterwards. Rings giving away is another sign. Honda engines are built under high tolerance and such fiascos leave BIG tabs to foot. Sigh!

Edit for Vid: Con rod was not hitting, should be the broken rings. EDIT 2: Yes its the con rod hitting, since shot is from bottom of the cylinder!

My theory, when lorry passed, driver would have panicked and might have released the throttle a bit due to reflex panic action. Yes she is delicate darling, thats why i generally keep off honda's. Only bro loves em.

Last edited by Jaggu : 28th May 2009 at 23:54.
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Old 28th May 2009, 23:50   #74
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Lets assume that this is water damage. Water was in cylinder and then an attempt was made to compress water, hence the damage.
What still makes me wonder is that how the water entered into cylinder ?
Its possible that water quantity was just enough to create damage in only one cylinder.


It looks like the entire block will have to be replaced. Considering that there was no damage to valves, the Head seems to be OK and this might not be interference engine as I earlier thought.



EDIT : Got answer in above post. By the time my post was seen, the above post was there with answers to all my questions.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 28th May 2009 at 23:52.
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Old 29th May 2009, 05:22   #75
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Are oversize pistons available for the cars ? because all i have ever heard is people doing a rebore and sleeving. I think it was just a fluke the Piston ring might have broken on it's own,causing this much havoc.
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