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Old 8th January 2009, 14:09   #331
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The manual recommends a minimum of three meters though.
Strangely, the Scorpio Manual recommends only a meter!
IF peculiar sounds are heard after having done this and moving ahead, they recommend doing another 2 or 3 meters in reverse, before going ahead!
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Old 8th January 2009, 16:44   #332
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You need three rotations of the wheel, thats all. Above that is extra
As for shift on the fly, Atul as well as the floor mechanic told me to stop and engage 4H, its always better to do so.

BTW, she is at Autolinks now, dropped at lunchtime. Parts have come, and Delphi guys will come tomorrow.

Today 4x4 work will be done, tomorrow Delphi and suspension work will be done, and she will be ready by saturday morning.
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Old 9th January 2009, 00:51   #333
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That seems to be fairly quick action on Tata's part! How much of it was regular "customer care" and how much was "extra effort" on your part?

Anyway, I hope your horse is galloping on all fours soon.

Incidentally, Tata tackles it's quality issues at Service Stations instead of the factory. They seem to replace parts without asking too many questions if and when trouble crops up, instead of maintaining high QC at the factory itself. Have seen it happen with my friend's Indico Dicor (Starter motor etc), Suman's blown turbocharger and now your truck.
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Old 9th January 2009, 09:09   #334
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Nice to note the progress Tanveer. I am sure your ride would be back and will have all its niggles out forever!
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Old 9th January 2009, 10:26   #335
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Incidentally, Tata tackles it's quality issues at Service Stations instead of the factory. They seem to replace parts without asking too many questions if and when trouble crops up, instead of maintaining high QC at the factory itself. Have seen it happen with my friend's Indico Dicor (Starter motor etc), Suman's blown turbocharger and now your truck.
Yes and thats where I get really sceptical since you never know that the person doing the replacement knows what he's doing or is he learning on the job.
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Old 9th January 2009, 10:59   #336
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Tanveer,

What's the max. recommended speed in 4H and 4L modes prescribed by Tata for Safari 4x4 2.2VTT?

And how does 4WD mode operate? Via center differencial (like GV/Pajero) or clutch-based coupling (like Tucson, etc.)?
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Old 9th January 2009, 12:30   #337
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Originally Posted by architect View Post
Incidentally, Tata tackles it's quality issues at Service Stations instead of the factory. They seem to replace parts without asking too many questions if and when trouble crops up, instead of maintaining high QC at the factory itself. Have seen it happen with my friend's Indico Dicor (Starter motor etc), Suman's blown turbocharger and now your truck.
Absolutely! I think the real issue is at the purchase point if you ask me. This is a pet peeve of mine - when multiple manufacturers (TATA, Mahindra, Ashok Leyland etc) are using the same companies for supplying components, why would TATA have a higher rate of niggles or failures? Is it that they compromise more on the +or- acceptable limits?

I would certainly think so......how else would you explain it?
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Old 9th January 2009, 12:36   #338
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Originally Posted by architect View Post
That seems to be fairly quick action on Tata's part! How much of it was regular "customer care" and how much was "extra effort" on your part?

Anyway, I hope your horse is galloping on all fours soon.

Incidentally, Tata tackles it's quality issues at Service Stations instead of the factory. They seem to replace parts without asking too many questions if and when trouble crops up, instead of maintaining high QC at the factory itself. Have seen it happen with my friend's Indico Dicor (Starter motor etc), Suman's blown turbocharger and now your truck.
I think due to recession they laid off the QC staff. After all what are customers for

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Nice to note the progress Tanveer. I am sure your ride would be back and will have all its niggles out forever!
Thanks surya
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Yes and thats where I get really sceptical since you never know that the person doing the replacement knows what he's doing or is he learning on the job.
Thankfully in this case the mechanics know what they are doing. And where they don't they don't touch, for example service light, they have called Delphi instead of trying to trace the root cause themselves

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Tanveer,

What's the max. recommended speed in 4H and 4L modes prescribed by Tata for Safari 4x4 2.2VTT?

And how does 4WD mode operate? Via center differencial (like GV/Pajero) or clutch-based coupling (like Tucson, etc.)?
Don't have much idea, all I know its a borg warner transfer case, and auto locking hubs
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Absolutely! I think the real issue is at the purchase point if you ask me. This is a pet peeve of mine - when multiple manufacturers (TATA, Mahindra, Ashok Leyland etc) are using the same companies for supplying components, why would TATA have a higher rate of niggles or failures? Is it that they compromise more on the +or- acceptable limits?

I would certainly think so......how else would you explain it?
Its the message management sends out to the floor. Try to build the car as quickly(fewer man hours) and as cheaply(use the lowest cost vendors), quality is secondry. Infact some time back at a supplier talk a Tata high up clearly told vendors "cut cost" quality is secondry. All that is important is rear seat space, FE and cost, things like performance, quality can be tackled later.

And thats the reason that the same Lucas TVS starter motor which does 100,000 in a maruti does 10,000 in Tata and dies.
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Old 9th January 2009, 12:49   #339
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Its the message management sends out to the floor. Try to build the car as quickly(fewer man hours) and as cheaply(use the lowest cost vendors), quality is secondry. Infact some time back at a supplier talk a Tata high up clearly told vendors "cut cost" quality is secondry. All that is important is rear seat space, FE and cost, things like performance, quality can be tackled later.
I wouldn't agree with the highlighted part at all. In fact, you seem to be contradicting what you've mentioned above with what you've said (highlighted) below -
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And thats the reason that the same Lucas TVS starter motor which does 100,000 in a maruti does 10,000 in Tata and dies.
This is exactly the point I'm making. Are you saying that TATA is getting it cheaper from Lucas TVS than what Maruti is getting it at? No way. But what is probably happening is - some of the stuff that may probably be rejected by others (due to lesser corruption & stricter acceptance levels at the Purchase point) are accepted at TATA due to their tolerance limits (as in the +or- band that I mentioned) being more "flexible"

I cannot accept that OEM suppliers have separate component assembly lines for TATA.....Mahindra.....Maruti & supply the inferior ones to TATA at a lower price.

But lets not hijack your thread
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Old 9th January 2009, 13:16   #340
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They don't have a different component line. Its just that doing QC means man hours. Man hours mean money. Tata is not spending enough man hours validating stuff. Thats the problem. When suppliers know that, they know they can also ship to Tata without enough QC. Thus after the assembly line they can also have lesser QC.
This problem is not new. Right from 1998 indica(we incidently bought a 1999 indica then), quality has been an issue.

Many times Tata has had to redesign as by usage it was found that the part was defective by design.
For example earlier indigo's had this problem of fuel pipe connector leaking. It was defective by design. Many owners(2 of my friends) go this problem, and had to suffer a lot as the part supply was not there anymore as Tata changed the part type itself after discovering the problem.

On Saturday I will know to get the details of what all got changed after all. I am hoping they will change the suspension components rather than the re-greasing.
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Old 9th January 2009, 13:23   #341
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It is possible Suman, if you ask the component supplier to supply you a component for 5-7-10% less than what they are charging the other maker for, logic dictates that the supplier is not going to pay for the cut from his pocket. He is going to scrimp on the final product, be it in reliability or quality.
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Old 9th January 2009, 14:01   #342
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Friends,

Regarding the OEM suppliers, I want to quote an example. Take the case of any Toy Manufacturer: the same Toy you buy in India has a inferior quality than the US(or any other country with strict regulations) counterpart. I had this experience with Hot Wheels(which is a famous brand!) which I purchased for my son.
Both the contraptions are made in CHINA!!! But the one bought from US had long lasting colours, parts held for longer to the kids attacks Vs the Indian one!!

It is for sure at the reciever point the mandated Quality Regulations need to be checked irrespective of the same supplier has same lines or different lines for different customers!!
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Old 9th January 2009, 14:02   #343
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Tata is not spending enough man hours validating stuff. Thats the problem. When suppliers know that, they know they can also ship to Tata without enough QC.
Isn't that exactly what I'm saying below - its not about getting at cheaper rates, its just about inferior material getting past the purchase point due to lax (and possibly corrupt) controls -
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what is probably happening is - some of the stuff that may probably be rejected by others (due to lesser corruption & stricter acceptance levels at the Purchase point) are accepted at TATA due to their tolerance limits (as in the +or- band that I mentioned) being more "flexible"
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Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
It is possible Suman, if you ask the component supplier to supply you a component for 5-7-10% less than what they are charging the other maker for, logic dictates that the supplier is not going to pay for the cut from his pocket. He is going to scrimp on the final product, be it in reliability or quality.
Ishan, lets forget about the small components for a minute & talk about the bigger ones - Dana Spicer Diffs, Borg & Warner Transfer Cases,Turboenergy Turbochargers; do you seriously think they are selling 7 to 10% cheaper to TML than they are selling to say, Mahindra? I doubt it. Its all about laxity & corruption at the entry point. Say, if the tolerance levels are -3% & you take in (knowingly) something that is -7%, somewhere down the line, it fails & the end customer is banging his head trying to figure out what went wrong.
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It is for sure at the reciever point the mandated Quality Regulations need to be checked irrespective of the same supplier has same lines or different lines for different customers!!
Exactly!

Last edited by suman : 9th January 2009 at 14:04.
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Old 9th January 2009, 14:27   #344
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Don't have much idea, all I know its a borg warner transfer case, and auto locking hubs
IIRC, I read in one of your posts that you were gunning at 80kmph in 4WD (not sure whether that was in 4H or 4L).

The 4H is Safari is a "locked" mode or an "unlocked" one?
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Old 9th January 2009, 14:30   #345
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I did not engage 4x4 at 80kmph. I was driving at 80kmph on a salt flat with loose sand and the mode was 4H. I was in 4th gear
Safari does not have diff locks, and there is no center diff. So you cannot engage 4x4 on hard ground.
However the rear has LSD in case of the Safari
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