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Old 11th January 2009, 19:43   #391
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I have been regularly viewing the posts of tsk on this thread and it horrifies me to shudders that no sooner a problem is resolved every time than a new problem seems to surface (more severe than the previous?)!

In the general interest of all safari owners on TBHP faced with problems can this entire thread be posted to TATA motors and response to it is updated? Although TBHP has wide membership but I think this should reach even wider audience / prospective safari buyers. That should be a good solid wake up call for the relevant people at TML.

Also, I have found this website Indian Consumer Complaints Forum where consumer complaints can be logged. Am not sure what kind of actions are taken on logged complaints (if at all) but might be worth logging? I have done it once in the past and the matter was resolved. Not sure if logging my complaint on the website was instrumental in the resolution of my problem.

Hope order finally prevails, quickly & some lost smiles are brought back
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Old 11th January 2009, 20:27   #392
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Originally Posted by architect View Post
Incidentally, Tata tackles it's quality issues at Service Stations instead of the factory. They seem to replace parts without asking too many questions if and when trouble crops up, instead of maintaining high QC at the factory itself. Have seen it happen with my friend's Indico Dicor (Starter motor etc), Suman's blown turbocharger and now your truck.
So, you expect TATA to ship your car from Delhi back to the factory in Maharashtra (assuming) and rectify the problem?

Sure, as long as you are willing to pay for the shipping cost.

If not, keep in mind, that the "primary" Dealers do send feedback to the company and they do maintain database of all kinds of issues.
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Old 11th January 2009, 20:31   #393
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Congrats on beautifull buy but Very sad about frustrating niggles, But I hardly heard any Safari going strong once it clocks 35000km or 4 years. There are few Safari going strong, I am too Safari fan

But irritating niggles postponed me buying the Safari from 2003 when i started buying cars. I have already baught and owned 5+ cars but still I dream about Safari, I am sure one or other day I would be owner but my plan is to own Safari once I get retired so I could have time to address if any issues and travelling would be less hence less issues and I would like to have backup car and buy Safari.

All the best TSK about your safari, I wish very soon things will work out. I suggest you write a letter to TATA main office, place you have purchased, place you are servicing, give them 1 week time and ask them to sort out every niggles and make you happy.

Regards,

Ravi.
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Old 11th January 2009, 20:31   #394
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[quote
I got to a lot of remote places, and suddenly, esp after overheating issue, my confidence is gone.
[/quote]

Tanveer Paaji, this is a vehicle specific issue & lousy job jone at Autolinks.

Believe me, you can trust safari to do remotest of places. I've seen a few 4x4 Safaris at non existent roads/ kaccha tracks in Himachal Pradesh. In one case, the vehicle was airlifted on a 5 km long ropeway & put on the under construction road ( almost non - existent) for rough use(4x4 low used all the time).I don't have vehicle's pics, but will share condition of tracks soon along with the video of a Bolero being airlifted.

And, you have threads by TBhpians having done remote places without any issues.

IMO, put your efforts & get after TATA. Dada motors de picche pe jao te gaddi change kara lo! They have given you a faulty vehicle. Collect some documentary evidence (your complaints & their replies) before moving to the consumer court.
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Old 11th January 2009, 21:51   #395
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Originally Posted by HappyWheels View Post
Ouch! If there is anyone from TATA reading this, they understand that they are the one's killing their own product by their incompetancy!
I'm sorry - one tsk does not a manufacturer make. Or break.

I've had issues myself, most of them recently and most that have happened when I was away. I did have a majorly incompetent dealer who complicated the problem by misdiagnosing it, but the company's response was terrific.

My dealer also gave me free injectors for the common rail - not because they were required, but because he thought that would make the 'problem' go away. I also got 3 free EGRs because he went by what his computer told him and not by common sense that Zak, Ashvin and I tried telling him at various points. He also replaced various parts of the suspension while missing out a very badly bent upper-arm that had obviously taken a severe impact.

tsk's case is definitely an exception, but lets not for a minute start pretending that all is screwed up on this side of the coin and hunky dory on the other. It isnt.

I own a Safari and I've had my share of issues, but I know that any issues that came up when I was around were definitely minor. The one major issue I had I still am not sure what caused it because I wasnt around when the problem cropped up. Still, the abuse that vehicle has been through is not minor. It has been taken through some chassis-breaking terrain in 4x4 and has always come out with flying colors.

Similarly for the one lemon that TSK seems to own, there are plenty of people who have owned this vehicle for significantly long periods of time with no major issues.

I have passed over some information to Tanveer and hopefully it will be of some use to him in getting his issues resolved - definitely more useful than changing titles every week.

Last edited by Steeroid : 11th January 2009 at 21:53.
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Old 11th January 2009, 23:10   #396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by breezydrive View Post
Tanveer Paaji, this is a vehicle specific issue & lousy job jone at Autolinks.
I won't blame autolinks. In this whole circus, they have been most helpful and proactive in changing every part.
If something which they had done had gone bad, it would have been their fault. But new new things are failing. First it was that brake circus, then it was the anti roll bar bush, then it was injectors, then it was the thermostat, and last but not the least, the hubs themselves!

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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
I'm sorry - one tsk does not a manufacturer make. Or break.

I've had issues myself, most of them recently and most that have happened when I was away. I did have a majorly incompetent dealer who complicated the problem by misdiagnosing it, but the company's response was terrific.
How ironic. In my case its an excellent dealer replacing all parts that go defective. The problem is rare parts are failing in this vehicle, parts which no dealership or Tata warehouse stocks

Quote:

My dealer also gave me free injectors for the common rail - not because they were required, but because he thought that would make the 'problem' go away. I also got 3 free EGRs because he went by what his computer told him and not by common sense that Zak, Ashvin and I tried telling him at various points. He also replaced various parts of the suspension while missing out a very badly bent upper-arm that had obviously taken a severe impact.
thankfully this dealer here called Delphi when he figured out something is wrong. the shop floor mechanic told me when they see some error code, they clean and refit sensor. If error code does not go away, they call Delphi.

Quote:
tsk's case is definitely an exception, but lets not for a minute start pretending that all is screwed up on this side of the coin and hunky dory on the other. It isnt.

I own a Safari and I've had my share of issues, but I know that any issues that came up when I was around were definitely minor. The one major issue I had I still am not sure what caused it because I wasnt around when the problem cropped up. Still, the abuse that vehicle has been through is not minor. It has been taken through some chassis-breaking terrain in 4x4 and has always come out with flying colors.

Similarly for the one lemon that TSK seems to own, there are plenty of people who have owned this vehicle for significantly long periods of time with no major issues.

I have passed over some information to Tanveer and hopefully it will be of some use to him in getting his issues resolved - definitely more useful than changing titles every week.
Your case was not bad because you did not have issues which were "stranding type". Moreover my safari is not abused at all. We idle it for atleast a minute(if not more) before switching on or off. The rpm needle goes above 2500rpm only on occasions when I do "cat con cleaning" as recommended in the vehicle.
Even in offroading, If I feel 4H will require half clutch, I shift to 4L. Where there are rocks I don't venture at all. She is handles with kid gloves. Heck, I crawl through potholed roads when wagon Rs and santros go bouncing by at speed.
To put things in perspective, my indica's clutch lasted 100000+ kms, and her first breakdown came after 60K. And she has seen much tougher terrains than the safari.
My confidence is shaken, and once I am back in first week feb, I will have the opportunity to test all the issues
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Old 11th January 2009, 23:53   #397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
I won't blame autolinks. In this whole circus, they have been most helpful and proactive in changing every part.
If something which they had done had gone bad, it would have been their fault.
I don't think Autolinks can be blamed here. They have done less R & D with your vehicle than many other Tata (or Tata-Fiat) ASC would do. And I find their initiative of calling up Delphi early on quite proactive.

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
My confidence is shaken
That's the most painful part. Even when the vehicle has been thoroughly inspected and pronouned fit after all the repairs, one wonders whether it is any better than the PDI which also declared the vehicle as fit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohit View Post
So, you expect TATA to ship your car from Delhi back to the factory in Maharashtra (assuming) and rectify the problem?

Sure, as long as you are willing to pay for the shipping cost.
Dear Aerohit, if you read my post fully and carefully, you wouldn't have asked this question. It is about maintaining a high QC standard at the factory instead of waiting for parts to fail! Where does shipping the vehicle come into the picture? Please re-read my post below and note the part in bold letters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by architect View Post
Incidentally, Tata tackles it's quality issues at Service Stations instead of the factory. They seem to replace parts without asking too many questions if and when trouble crops up, instead of maintaining high QC at the factory itself. Have seen it happen with my friend's Indico Dicor (Starter motor etc), Suman's blown turbocharger and now your truck.
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Old 12th January 2009, 00:23   #398
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with decades of experience under their belt tata motors still lags behind... the problems mentioned here are horrible even 2nd to 3rd cars dont give so much problems..
Tata has recently bought the RR and Jaguar Group ... how'd they get the money? by ripping off innocent customers in india.Well im pretty sure the company's cars run in other country's but im pretty sure that they go through vigorous testing because if the same would to happen there People will sue tata by the masses.
well its not only in the matters of automobiles but most of the stuff in the market.. Indians get 3rd grade stuff always..I remember my friend from Assam who has a tea estate.. they export the high quality A grade stuff to the US and UK and other major nations well Indians over here enjoy B to C grade.
Well on the other hand i Respect mahindra auto i feel that they have done a pretty decent job on their vehicles.
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Old 12th January 2009, 00:31   #399
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This thread is now more become a "Beat the Safari to Death" thread.

With due respects to Tanveer and his liberal views, i would like to add, its aferall a problem faced by you and typically you.

There are huge number of Safari owners here on the Forum who've not faced such a serious problem. Have patience. even a meticulously designed space ship at times fail due to unknown error.

Agree everyone has faced a small niggle here and there, thats common to all damn cars rolling out of any assembly line.

I would also say the trouble would not be entirely on the machine, its afterall a machine and its always the Man behind the Machine.

I respect the brand for the reliability its given me, i stand by it and these are my views. Yours may differ, have a cool head over your shoulder.

14000 kms you were all praise to the Safari, one issue and you abandon your ride. The beast is going to come out stronger afer all the sad things that's happened to it along with you. I wish you and the Beast a happy recovery and a homecoming. Dont lose heart.

Last edited by PAVAN KADAM : 12th January 2009 at 00:38.
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Old 12th January 2009, 00:53   #400
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Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
14000 kms you were all praise to the Safari, one issue and you abandon your ride.
It's actually more like 5 major issues and not small niggles.
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Old 12th January 2009, 01:08   #401
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Pavan its not "one issue" as you say but one after the other thats cropping up so very frequently. Tanveer's frustration is understandable.

Although I have a niggling doubt somewhere in my mind. What are the chances that the incompetent mechs are not screwing up things inadvertently when they open up major components and assemblies thus causing another failure to some other part?

In my case I had a problem with the Indica AC which could not start while idling but worked fine when the vehicle was running. This cropped up after it came back after a FIP job. The guys at TASC said the potentiometer is gone and there is no guarantee on it. So they wanted me to shell out almost 3500 bucks, all inclusive. Thankfully I remained skeptical and finally took it to a much smaller TASP. They checked everything and finally replaced the coil for 300 odd bucks which solved the problem. The important thing was that they showed me how someone earlier had hit the coil with a screwdriver which caused it to fail. Obviously while taking the FIP out or while putting it back in the mech at the TASC had caused the damage to the coil which sits flush with the FIP.

Much earlier while topping the battery a mech at TASC had dropped acid on the painted body shell under the hood and caused the paint to corrode.

The point is that the mechs are inherently callous and often cause more damage when working on your vehicle. I am wondering whether Tanveer is experiencing something similar!

Last edited by Zappo : 12th January 2009 at 01:10.
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Old 12th January 2009, 01:55   #402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
This thread is now more become a "Beat the Safari to Death" thread.

With due respects to Tanveer and his liberal views, i would like to add, its aferall a problem faced by you and typically you.

There are huge number of Safari owners here on the Forum who've not faced such a serious problem. Have patience. even a meticulously designed space ship at times fail due to unknown error.

Agree everyone has faced a small niggle here and there, thats common to all damn cars rolling out of any assembly line.

I would also say the trouble would not be entirely on the machine, its afterall a machine and its always the Man behind the Machine.

I respect the brand for the reliability its given me, i stand by it and these are my views. Yours may differ, have a cool head over your shoulder.

14000 kms you were all praise to the Safari, one issue and you abandon your ride. The beast is going to come out stronger afer all the sad things that's happened to it along with you. I wish you and the Beast a happy recovery and a homecoming. Dont lose heart.
14000kms? My safari got these issues before she completed 10K. As vid says below, its not one issue, but failure after failure.
First I almost crash on the expressway because medium braking effort spins the tail, and I am 90 degrees to the traffic. It takes 2 visits and TML and Dana engineers themselves to rectify the problem. The brake pads have uneven wear to prove my case.
After this its the suspension noise which does not go even after greasing. Finally they are going to replace the bush, which they have inspected and FOUND faulty, its just not in stock.
After that lets come to 4x4 the real reason I got the safari. Autolinks guys clearly told me its a manufacturing defect, this part is not what breaks even with misuse, other components give away if 4x4 is used wrongly.
Next comes the service light, and it is discovered that the injectors themselves are faulty along with HP lines.
After all this circus, she overheats and I am stranded for 1.5 hours as help arives. The thermostat has gone kaput.
So all I can ask is what next.
I don't really care how many happy customers are there, I am not happy. I am worried. I plan to go to Ladakh this year. What if thermostat or cam sensor or turbo packs up there?


Quote:
Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
It's actually more like 5 major issues and not small niggles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
Pavan its not "one issue" as you say but one after the other thats cropping up so very frequently. Tanveer's frustration is understandable.

Although I have a niggling doubt somewhere in my mind. What are the chances that the incompetent mechs are not screwing up things inadvertently when they open up major components and assemblies thus causing another failure to some other part?
Thermostat is a sealed part inside radiator lines. So they cannot mess that up. Apart from that they never touched the engine, all they did is hook up the computer, and then remove and refit sensor. when service light again came, they did not touch anything, called Delphi.
As far as 4x4 is concerned, the guy did the opening in front of me, and there was no hit and trial, he knew what he was doing, and showed me exactly what part inside the hub was gone.
As for brake issue, they adjusted the LPSV, the master cylinder etc., were not opened by autolinks, but under supervision of Tata and Dana engineers. After this the problem almost went away, and recent slight adjustment has seen this problem completely go away. Now I can leave the steering and hit brakes, she goes straight, no issues.
As for suspension, its the first time they opened up the anti roll bars, and the bush indeed is faulty. As usual no stock as this is a rare part to replace, and other cars do not have this problem. I am hearing this sound right from 1000kms, every service greasing made it go away for a week and it used to come back.


Quote:
The point is that the mechs are inherently callous and often cause more damage when working on your vehicle. I am wondering whether Tanveer is experiencing something similar!
Not in this case, I am usually with the vehicle when stuff is being done. This workshop is a good one, much better than the normal ones.
The best thing is they don't shoo you away. You can stand by your vehicle all the time.
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Old 12th January 2009, 10:25   #403
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Hi tsk1979, sad to read your experience with the vehicle. Hope all issues get sorted out soon to your satisfaction.
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Take her to 2100rpm in 5th gear, and then leave acc. and let her coast till rpm drops to 1200 or so, see if service light comes up
Am unable to comprehend on the effect of the 5th gear alone, on this situation. Any chance for the service lamp to come up in neutral (or any other gear), after accelerating beyond 2100rpm and then letting the engine to idle?
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Old 12th January 2009, 10:29   #404
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Pavan,

With due respects, I think the Man(Tanveer) behind the machine is pretty much aware and does take care of the car like everybody else do!!(or probably better!!)

It is not beating a safari to death or anything like that!. We all love our cars and would want them to do a splendid ride. But sharing the cars' issues and all kinds of related problems is what this FORUM is meant for!! At the end of it, each potential buyer still will use his or her own judgement and liking before closing on thier choice.
Like Anup said, do we want our hard earned(most of the cases i think!)monies to be taken for a ride by flimsy QC controls of manufacturers?? the answer is NO.
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Old 12th January 2009, 10:34   #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Dadu, with due respect, I would like to point out something which might be axiomatic but not readily obvious.
To each of us, the ONLY piece that matters is the one we own; the one we paid hard earned money for.
It is of no relevance, nor is it a consolation, what the experience has been for another owner of a similar car.
I agree, but even a top brand could have problems and the owner cursing it because it failed for him, although for others it might be running without problems. It general human nature.

That is also the reason why i said it could be pure bad luck.

I can understand the frustation and inconfidence but you nee to work it out with TATA by hook or crook.

Tanveer, I remember reading someone reporting TATA giving a replacement Safari after almost an year of diagnosing, I cant remember who and what was the problem.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
Although I have a niggling doubt somewhere in my mind. What are the chances that the incompetent mechs are not screwing up things inadvertently when they open up major components and assemblies thus causing another failure to some other part?
I agree with Zappo here, if they dont know the exact problem, they cant diagnose it and then changing mere parts means nothing, cause they might be changing the working parts inturn screwing up something else. The problem has to be pinpointed and then tackled otherwise its like changing the whole engine parts for a suspension issue.

Last edited by dadu : 12th January 2009 at 10:51.
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