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Old 13th January 2009, 10:53   #421
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
The updates will now happen around 10th feb when I am back. I hope it goes away with injector replacement.
Good luck!! You seem to be lucky that both dealer and the automaker seem to be supportive. Let them work together and turn around your horse.

Hope to see you in Ladakh soon
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Old 13th January 2009, 12:03   #422
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Thanks Steeroid for pointing me towards the Yahoo group.

My only reason for posting on this thread was to make a point against the Safari bashing that goes on. Against 1 troubled owner there would be many satisfied owners. Lack of a 100 % focus on QC on the part of the Company can land up an unsuspecting buyer with a lemon, be it a Safari, Scorpio, or any other car.

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Our sympathies are with you too, but tsk's issues seem to be more serious on the whole(excepting your gear slippage). You might want to try your luck with the Mahindra Scorpio Yahoogroups where similar and much more serious issues and their solutions are discussed. If I'm not mistaken, the issue of the vehicle slipping out of gears while in motion has been discussed there before.

You can be assured that you will not find the Safari fraternity parked in your thread, stirring up things without contributing to the resolution of your issues.
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Old 13th January 2009, 12:25   #423
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I spoke to the works manager. Suspension bush is in but the Injectors and the HP lines are yet to come from Lucas Chennai.
So its will be in the second week of feb I get all stuff changed. Plan to do one long trip in early march(~ 2000kms), lets see how it all goes
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Old 13th January 2009, 12:43   #424
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
I spoke to the works manager. Suspension bush is in but the Injectors and the HP lines are yet to come from Lucas Chennai.

So its will be in the second week of feb I get all stuff changed. Plan to do one long trip in early march(~ 2000kms), lets see how it all goes
Is it possible to coax the service manager to change the fuel filter, I have read experiences with fuel filters also creating low pressure problems across a wide range of vehicles around the world.

Only thing to remember is that the Fuel filter should have the Part no : 253409110117, just incase they have an initial stock.

Or you can get it done(as a first part change) once they have all the spares, but suggest a single part change approach, otherwise noone will ever be able to figure out the exact cause of this problem.

Last edited by dadu : 13th January 2009 at 12:44.
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Old 13th January 2009, 13:11   #425
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
So if you have May 2008 manufactured vehicle, do this.
Take her to 2100rpm in 5th gear, and then leave acc. and let her coast till rpm drops to 1200 or so, see if service light comes up

I can reproduce this 4 out of 5 times, on my Sept'07 2.2 Dicor. In the 3rd, 4th gears, accelerate hard to reach 3k rpm, leave the accelerator, clutch and let it coast back to below 1500rpm, the service light comes on for a second and goes away. Should I be worried ?

No other symptoms of the engine misbehaving though.

If you decelerate, the normal tendency is to use the clutch to control the engine speed and vehicle speed as well. This happens if you dont use the clutch.

Is this something to do with specific engine speeds / rev limiter function in a particular gear ?

Will try to take a picture if possible.

cheers!
Srini
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Old 13th January 2009, 14:08   #426
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Your experience is truly sad. There are a few things i would like to share which was advised to me by TML engineers. This is not completely out of context to the issues you face, which certainly seem to be the outcome of bad QC and manufacturing defects.

I was advised more than once the following which i follow religiously:
1. Do not use premium fuel. Use only normal diesel under all circumstances. Failure to do so will eventually/may lead to injector trouble.
2. Do not engage 4H(on the fly) at speeds above 40kph.
3. Max speed on 4H is 60kph and any speeds above this may cause damage to the 4x4 components/aggregates.

I can term my 4wd use as moderate, though most of it is 4L. Other than smelling a burning clutch at times i fortunately have not faced any problems yet.

I have few questions though:
How do the TASS people test the 4wd after repairs or parts replacements? COnsidering that most TASS are located in cities where 4wd terrain is very difficult to find. Or do they test it on a ramp, in which case, how effective is such a test ?

The only way I know that 4wd is working is when i see/feel that the front wheels are also being driven and the 4H/4L display on the screen. Is there any other way to know that 4wd is not working?

I too hear a whine when 4wd is engaged. Is that a problem?
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Old 13th January 2009, 14:25   #427
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Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
The only way I know that 4wd is working is when i see/feel that the front wheels are also being driven and the 4H/4L display on the screen. Is there any other way to know that 4wd is not working?
Rather primitive but - Engage 4H, shut off the engine, jack up the front end of the vehicle, put it in gear & try spinning the front wheel manually. If it spins freely, you have a problem.

PS: The whine is natural unless you find it getting shriller with passage of time
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Old 13th January 2009, 14:40   #428
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Jay, those are helpful tips you have posted.
However, I must express concern at the advice reagrding engaging 4H on-the-fly.
The system has been designed to accomplish this, not as an emergency manoeuvre but as a routine. Various forums have discussed this issue and there seems no reason to believe that the practice is fraught with risk. I would agree that there would be speed limits within which these functions should be performed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
The only way I know that 4wd is working is when i see/feel that the front wheels are also being driven and the 4H/4L display on the screen. Is there any other way to know that 4wd is not working?
Here, you have raised a very interesting issue!
Beyond knowing whether 4WD is working, I have often wondered whether there is any method/indication whatsoever by which it can be deduced that LSD has been called into play.
How do these metro based service centres test these systems?

As for the 'whine' in 4X4 mode, I too have always heard it in my Scorpio, where I have engaged 4H on-the-fly oh so many times, BUT always at speeds well below 25 kmph.
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Old 13th January 2009, 15:10   #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadu View Post
Is it possible to coax the service manager to change the fuel filter, I have read experiences with fuel filters also creating low pressure problems across a wide range of vehicles around the world.

Only thing to remember is that the Fuel filter should have the Part no : 253409110117, just incase they have an initial stock.

Or you can get it done(as a first part change) once they have all the spares, but suggest a single part change approach, otherwise noone will ever be able to figure out the exact cause of this problem.
Fuel filter will also be changed as part of the warranty replacement. I forgot to mention this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smsrini View Post
I can reproduce this 4 out of 5 times, on my Sept'07 2.2 Dicor. In the 3rd, 4th gears, accelerate hard to reach 3k rpm, leave the accelerator, clutch and let it coast back to below 1500rpm, the service light comes on for a second and goes away. Should I be worried ?

No other symptoms of the engine misbehaving though.

If you decelerate, the normal tendency is to use the clutch to control the engine speed and vehicle speed as well. This happens if you dont use the clutch.

Is this something to do with specific engine speeds / rev limiter function in a particular gear ?

Will try to take a picture if possible.

cheers!
Srini
You have the same issue as me. There was another 2.2 in the workshop with same issue. Same solution. Injectors and high pressure lines along with diesel filter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
Your experience is truly sad. There are a few things i would like to share which was advised to me by TML engineers. This is not completely out of context to the issues you face, which certainly seem to be the outcome of bad QC and manufacturing defects.

I was advised more than once the following which i follow religiously:
1. Do not use premium fuel. Use only normal diesel under all circumstances. Failure to do so will eventually/may lead to injector trouble.
2. Do not engage 4H(on the fly) at speeds above 40kph.
3. Max speed on 4H is 60kph and any speeds above this may cause damage to the 4x4 components/aggregates.

I can term my 4wd use as moderate, though most of it is 4L. Other than smelling a burning clutch at times i fortunately have not faced any problems yet.

I have few questions though:
How do the TASS people test the 4wd after repairs or parts replacements? COnsidering that most TASS are located in cities where 4wd terrain is very difficult to find. Or do they test it on a ramp, in which case, how effective is such a test ?

The only way I know that 4wd is working is when i see/feel that the front wheels are also being driven and the 4H/4L display on the screen. Is there any other way to know that 4wd is not working?

I too hear a whine when 4wd is engaged. Is that a problem?
1. I never fill premium fuel. The service center has made it clear that its not bad fuel or something. Delphi engineers have confirmed injector fault..
2. Whine? Get it checked man. You could also have a bent pin.
3, Its easy to check 4x4. Go to a dirt road or ground. Turn steering wheel and drive in a circle. In 2H when you leave accelerator, the safari will coast to a stop. in 4H it will stop jerkily due to difference in rotational speeds of front and rear tracks. In my case they first check my ramping up the vehicle, and next step is trying to climb a mound of sand on a construction site. The people around the workshop must be wondering who wrecks their construction sites


Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
Rather primitive but - Engage 4H, shut off the engine, jack up the front end of the vehicle, put it in gear & try spinning the front wheel manually. If it spins freely, you have a problem.

PS: The whine is natural unless you find it getting shriller with passage of time
Whine is not normal! I got whine and it was an issue. Now there is no whine and no funny sounds.


Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Jay, those are helpful tips you have posted.
However, I must express concern at the advice reagrding engaging 4H on-the-fly.
The system has been designed to accomplish this, not as an emergency manoeuvre but as a routine. Various forums have discussed this issue and there seems no reason to believe that the practice is fraught with risk. I would agree that there would be speed limits within which these functions should be performed.



Here, you have raised a very interesting issue!
Beyond knowing whether 4WD is working, I have often wondered whether there is any method/indication whatsoever by which it can be deduced that LSD has been called into play.
How do these metro based service centres test these systems?

As for the 'whine' in 4X4 mode, I too have always heard it in my Scorpio, where I have engaged 4H on-the-fly oh so many times, BUT always at speeds well below 25 kmph.
Its not difficult to test LSD. In case of problem it makes funny sounds, like suman's was making. Moreover on ramp when you rotate one wheel of LSD, other also movies, albeit more slowly.
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Old 13th January 2009, 15:17   #430
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Whine is not normal! I got whine and it was an issue. Now there is no whine and no funny sounds.
There is a definite whine at low speeds which is normal, I've faced it in other 4x4 vehicles that I've been a passenger on.........

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Its not difficult to test LSD. In case of problem it makes funny sounds, like suman's was making. Moreover on ramp when you rotate one wheel of LSD, other also movies, albeit more slowly.
Correct, the "funny" sound comes when you are making a turn, not when you are in a straight line.
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Old 13th January 2009, 15:24   #431
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suman, while travelling straight the LSD does not come into play at all.
As for whine, Atul clearly told me that there should be no whine or sounds from 4x4 system at any speed. If I hear anything, I am to come straight to him.

Not all whines lead to breakdown, some are due to bearings due for change, and such bearing can run for thousands of kms before totally failing.
Sometimes its due to inadequate greasing or lubrication, which means a part which should do 50K kms will do only 30K.
So its always good to check for all whines.
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Old 13th January 2009, 15:24   #432
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Its not difficult to test LSD. In case of problem it makes funny sounds, like suman's was making. Moreover on ramp when you rotate one wheel of LSD, other also movies, albeit more slowly.
Hey, that sounds different!
IIRC, when one wheel is rotated, the other begins to rotate in the opposite sense, in cars with open diffs.?
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Old 13th January 2009, 15:27   #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
There is a definite whine at low speeds which is normal, I've faced it in other 4x4 vehicles that I've been a passenger on.........


Correct, the "funny" sound comes when you are making a turn, not when you are in a straight line.
Mine is a 3L DICOR, During acceleration i hear a small whine.

I've learnt that its a Turbo Intercooler sound and its normal. or am i wrong?
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Old 13th January 2009, 15:27   #434
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suman, while travelling straight the LSD does not come into play at all.
It does - picture this, one wheel off the edge of the road hanging in air, other three wheels on the ground & car still pointing straight. Your LSD would come into play, you don't need to be taking a turn necessarily.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
Mine is a 3L DICOR, During acceleration i hear a small whine.

I've learnt that its a Turbo Intercooler sound and its normal. or am i wrong?
That's fine Pavan, this is a different kind of a whine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Not all whines lead to breakdown, some are due to bearings due for change, and such bearing can run for thousands of kms before totally failing.
The next time we meet, I'll show you what I'm referring to - I call it a "whine", you may say its something else . But its a trademark of all selectable 4x4 vehicles that I've been in. And yes, its more pronounced in 4L. And it has nothing to do with worn or "dry" bearings.

Last edited by suman : 13th January 2009 at 15:32.
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Old 13th January 2009, 15:31   #435
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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Hey, that sounds different!
IIRC, when one wheel is rotated, the other begins to rotate in the opposite sense, in cars with open diffs.?
In a car with open diff, you can hold the other wheel, for example rotate one wheel on jack with other on the ground. In a LSD vehicle you will feel resistance if the other wheel is locked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
Mine is a 3L DICOR, During acceleration i hear a small whine.

I've learnt that its a Turbo Intercooler sound and its normal. or am i wrong?
Thats turbo whistle. We are talking about bearing/mechanical noise
Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
It does - picture this, one wheel off the edge of the road hanging in air, other three wheels on the ground & car still pointing straight. Your LSD would come into play, you don't need to be taking a turn necessarily.

That's fine Pavan, this is a different kind of a whine.
I was talking about on a normal road , not off roading scenario.
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