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Old 17th March 2009, 14:53   #781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadu View Post
I refuse to believe that this pipe can bend to such an extent to cause a blockage without any manual forces and just by the vibration of the engine.

To test try bending the green gas pipe in your kitchen and experience how much of force and deviation is required to stop flow of gas.

It will not block even if you shake the pipe vigrously.
Thanks for reinforcing what I was trying to say.
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Old 17th March 2009, 15:04   #782
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Originally Posted by dadu View Post
But tanveers pipe was out of the clamp.
Tanveer mentioned that the pipe is flimsy. From what I recollect, the pipe is not flimsy.
It is also possible that TASS may have changed this pipe during one of the many visits. In such an scenario they may have fitted a longer / shorter pipe resulting in the bend.
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Old 17th March 2009, 15:04   #783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadu View Post
I refuse to believe that this pipe can bend to such an extent to cause a blockage without any manual forces and just by the vibration of the engine.

To test try bending the green gas pipe in your kitchen and experience how much of force and deviation is required to stop flow of gas.

It will not block even if you shake the pipe vigrously.

Very true, thats the only way it can bend from the neck of the connector at bottom. But tanveers pipe was out of the clamp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
Thanks for reinforcing what I was trying to say.
Try sqeezing the gas pipe in kitchen. It will not sqeeze. Its strong and hard.
Now open your bonnet and try to pinch this pipe, it pinches easily.
In my case it has bent at the exact place it goes in the clip. It was out of the clip and bent. The last time TASC touched this vehicle was around 10000kms, and this issue came at 12500. So somewhere in between due to vibrations etc., it came out, maybe touched the radiator and due to heat got bent. I don't know how it got bent or why it did, but I am sure if it had been as hard as your kitchen gas pipe, it would never have bent.
And be thankful that your kitchen gas pipe is not made by Tata.

BTW, another update, I spoke to a few people about the surging at cold start which as been there from day one. Apparently its due to faulty EGR.
EGR valve is not opening fully when its very cold, hence the erratic idle at cold start.

I wonder what all I will keep on finding as I prod further. Is anything even right with this thing?
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Old 17th March 2009, 15:05   #784
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Quote:
I refuse to believe that this pipe can bend to such an extent to cause a blockage without any manual forces and just by the vibration of the engine.
I am no expert but I think its not just the vibration but engine heat too which can bend a pipe if its of inferior quality
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Old 17th March 2009, 15:09   #785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
BTW, another update, I spoke to a few people about the surging at cold start which as been there from day one. Apparently its due to faulty EGR.
EGR valve is not opening fully when its very cold, hence the erratic idle at cold start.
Isn't this the "hiccup"ing that Dadu had mentioned on the 2.2 problems thread & TML replaced the EGR in his vehicle? I thought all you guys with similar symptoms were doing the same.
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Old 17th March 2009, 15:11   #786
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Fluid and gas dynamics my dear friends, can create amazing master piece out of rubber tubing.

Stop the denial and if you are smart enough safari owner, go get a decent rubber tube and replace it to avoid such mishap, will cost under 100-200 INR OR atleast tie the tube up properly so that it wont wander.
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Old 17th March 2009, 15:20   #787
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I did not have any hiccuping. Only on cold start(in winter type climate, not summers) it would do grr, grrr grrr with rpm needle dancing between 800-1200rpm
the expected this problem to go away with FP and injector change, but it did not, so it seems EGR needs to be changed.
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Old 17th March 2009, 15:22   #788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Try sqeezing the gas pipe in kitchen. It will not sqeeze. Its strong and hard.
Now open your bonnet and try to pinch this pipe, it pinches easily.
In my case it has bent at the exact place it goes in the clip. It was out of the clip and bent.
R u sure it was bent and not twisted ?

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Last edited by Technocrat : 17th March 2009 at 15:53. Reason: see note in post
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Old 17th March 2009, 15:23   #789
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More than anything, its sheer bad luck. I cant possibly imagine that pipe bending on its own even though its out of the clip, with a hot coolant flowing through it, not as much to stop the flow of the coolant properly for sure.
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Old 17th March 2009, 15:25   #790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
EGR needs to be changed.


What EGR, better ask those people to change the Safari itself.

How long would you be the test mule for TATA's.

Its better you find one final and last solution.

I cant help but laugh at the whole situation of yours(Not sarcastic)

This is a complete " Comedy of Errors"
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Old 17th March 2009, 15:31   #791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Only on cold start(in winter type climate, not summers) it would do grr, grrr grrr with rpm needle dancing between 800-1200rpm
I think that this, when translated on a moving car would be what is called hiccuping.
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Old 17th March 2009, 15:36   #792
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But I never march the car without idling for atleast a minute, and once you press the accelerator, the problem goes away, its only at idle

Quote:
Originally Posted by SUV View Post
R u sure it was bent and not twisted ?....
No not twisted, just a bend in the middle where it goes into clip.
I think it came off the clip, touched something hot for a while and developed a crimp there

Last edited by tsk1979 : 17th March 2009 at 15:38.
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Old 17th March 2009, 15:47   #793
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Quote:
tsk1979 : In my case it has bent at the exact place it goes in the clip. It was out of the clip and bent. ... so somewhere in between due to vibrations etc., it came out, maybe touched the radiator and due to heat got bent.
@TSK, you say the bend is exactly at the place it goes in the clip. I find the odds stacked way against that part of the pipe touching the radiator, and getting bent in that fashion.

For starters, is there enough play for the pipe to move enough for that point to toch the radiator ? If it did, is the radiator, at the point where the pipe would have touched, hot enough to de-form the pipe ?

Quote:
tsk1979 : I think it came off the clip, touched something hot for a while and developed a crimp there
Again, how much could the pipe move from it's fixed position ? Is there anything that the pipe could have touched - in the exact point of the bend - that was hot enough to cause the deformation ?

Even if the pipe did move sufficiently to touch something hot, it is more likely that some other part of the pipe could have touched a (different) part of the engine bay that is hot enough to cause the deformation. Not that part where it is currently bent.

Last edited by condor : 17th March 2009 at 15:52.
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Old 17th March 2009, 15:51   #794
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The pipe is long enough to touch the radiator. And its not hard like your gas pipe, its like the pipe with which you water your garden(the soft type)
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Old 17th March 2009, 15:52   #795
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My observations on the pipe problem from looking at the photos posted by ADC.

1. The first thing I see wrong is the positioning of the clip. It will cause the pipe to bend more than it needs to as it will cause the pipe to bend inward and squeeze itself against the metal frame over there. Second place where the pipe will get squeezed is at the coolant reservoir connecting pipe.

2. I also find the pipe to be longer than what is actually required or maybe it looks that what in the photo.
Attached Thumbnails
Safari EX 4x4 120000kms update-safari.jpg  

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