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Old 19th March 2009, 13:34   #856
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I will ask them to change the radiator itself. No flute no bamboo.
Tanveer it goes like this " No Bamboo-No Flute"

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The pipe is also faulty. If it was not the coolant from the coolant reservoir would have vanished, and I would have filled in water and drove on.
Thank god its a small problem. So when is your Safari coming back home.
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Old 19th March 2009, 13:52   #857
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Thank god its a small problem. So when is your Safari coming back home.
No idea.
After radiator problem gets fixed, engine oil leak problem will be analyzed.
After that the erratic idle problem is the next task.
Then finally the suspension Khat(which did not go away even after idler arm tightning) will be diagnosed, its supposedly coming from the Jumping rod, which already has been worked upon for a faulty bush replacement.
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Old 19th March 2009, 13:53   #858
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The pipe is also faulty. If it was not the coolant from the coolant reservoir would have vanished, and I would have filled in water and drove on.
And the leak wouldn't have caused you any problems?
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Old 19th March 2009, 14:03   #859
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Well I drove from Kalpa to N.Delhi without car overheating even once after filling in water
Apparently the water is gradually evaporating not sudden, as the leak is not at bottom, but somwhere around the battery.

Once I have the safari in my hands(next week I think? or maybe saturday) I can pen down the gory details.
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Old 19th March 2009, 14:28   #860
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@Adc, you summed it up well in your previous post but I would suggest, that you dont plug the pipe into the clamp, as Vikram mentioned it is clearly squeezing the pipe and hence the flow would also reduce.

Best way is to goto anearby showroom and check yourself if it actually comes fitted in the clamp or loose from factory, some of the clamps in the engine bay are not used et-all for eg just above the radiator one.

You never know, if someone proactively clamped the pipe into a wrong clamp for tanveer, it being free.
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Originally Posted by condor View Post
How much squeeze is a squeeze ?

Every non-rigid tube will have a little squeeze where it is secured / mounted. This will not affect the functioning of the tube : if there is a squeeze in one axis, there is a corresponding stretch in the perpendicular axis. Net flow internally will be the same.
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Rephrasing and again seeing, the "squeezing" or "pinching" does seem a bit more on the images due to the thumb print on the pipe. May be the clip position is wrong, but it is not like really squeezing it, it is holding it tight with moderate pinch not severe.

Let all 2.2 owners check and lets see what the take is, will surely see what the new 2.2 vehicles has like once i am able to.

surely that too will check out, but just for engine start or stop it should not come out. will keep an eye on that pipe - sure that pipe is a "celebrity" by now.
Just my 2 cents though belated (was getting fried at work yesterday)
I checked up this overflow pipe on 17.03.09 evening after I went back home and I found that the pipe was fixed the way it was supposed to be and had not come out of the clip (even after some 12000 Kms). However the clip does press the pipe a little (afterall it is a soft rubber pipe - but not flimsy) in order to hold it.
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Old 19th March 2009, 14:31   #861
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And to think of the number of pages debated about the clip & the pipe
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
The pipe is also faulty. If it was not the coolant from the coolant reservoir would have vanished, and I would have filled in water and drove on.
@suman: i hope you got the answer, well the tube is an issue if it got crimped and was not allowing the coolant circulation from the tank! How does one rule out if that pipe itself was the cause of radiator leak? These days radiator parts do comprise plastic which can crack under undue pressure??

Most often its those silly clips and tubes that create big time bombs.

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Well I drove from Kalpa to N.Delhi without car overheating even once after filling in water
Apparently the water is gradually evaporating not sudden, as the leak is not at bottom, but somwhere around the battery.

Once I have the safari in my hands(next week I think? or maybe saturday) I can pen down the gory details.
Most probably its a small crack and hence slow coolant loss and not dripping out.

Two good things from this episode about Tata, the sensors and ecu did its job and restricted the engine from further damage.

Customer support and service support are the ones saving this company at the end of the day. hopefully they will put some more thought into their QA/QC department soon.
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Old 19th March 2009, 14:38   #862
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On an unrelated note... I am sure all these replacements and labour costs more to Tata Motors and they could have easily avoided it by using better quality components and better QC at their end. That ways they dont loose the confidence of their customers as well.

Last edited by extreme_torque : 19th March 2009 at 14:45.
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Old 19th March 2009, 15:27   #863
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Ok. I had the experience of old ambys and jeep where the radiator caps were lost most of the times and we used to top up with water every 2-3 weeks. The water did not evaporate that fast even though the caps were not there.
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The rate of evaporation depends on a lot of things.
Old Ambys and Jeeps had a non-pressurised cooling system, whereas new cars have a pressurised cooling system - the amount of coolant/water is lesser as a result now, making the system (and the radiator) more compact. But the "water pump" (nowadays the "coolant pump") in a modern car is far more powerful than what was there in an Amby. So, with the engine running, the Amby/Jeep water pump kept the liquid circulating. But the new-generation car's coolant pump will make the coolant overflow out of an open filler hole, and almost all the coolant will be thrown out in a little while.

Want a quick test? Remove the radiator cap, let the engine fully warm up, and hold revs at 2000 rpm for a few minutes.

Fill up with fresh coolant.
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Old 19th March 2009, 16:16   #864
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Old Ambys and Jeeps had a non-pressurised cooling system, whereas new cars have a pressurised cooling system - the amount of coolant/water is lesser as a result now, making the system (and the radiator) more compact.
The pressurised cooling system has nothing to do with the amount of coolant, amount of coolant is determined based on the volume required for circulation around the engine block and head along with the cabin heater system.

Pressurized cooling system was devised to raise the boiling point of coolant by apprx 25 deg C vs non-pressurized, this is achieved by using the valve based pressure radiator cap.

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But the "water pump" (nowadays the "coolant pump") in a modern car is far more powerful than what was there in an Amby. So, with the engine running, the Amby/Jeep water pump kept the liquid circulating. But the new-generation car's coolant pump will make the coolant overflow out of an open filler hole, and almost all the coolant will be thrown out in a little while.
Again the water pump helps circulate the coolant but has no role to play in the overflow. The cooled coolant from the radiator is pumped around the engine block and head and then into the radiator, this is how it flows.

The overflow is caused by another reason. When the pressure in the radiator builds up due to heating of the coolant the radiator cap acts as a vent and opens up(valve mechanism) to let the coolant flow into the coolant bottle and similary when it cools down, it sucks back the coolant.

Now when it heats up beyond a limit(overheating) it will throw up more coolant than the bottle can handle and in turn will overflow from the bottle also.

Hope this clarifies.
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Old 19th March 2009, 17:33   #865
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Default More part changes

1. Accelerator Pedal has been changed
2. Radiator is going to be changed. There was a defect in the radiator leading to coolant evaporation. Leak somewhere towards the battery side. It will be gotten from regional office, so will be fit in tomorrow
3. Tie rod end has to be changed. This was cause of the "Khat", which did not go away even after tightnight the idler arm
4. Some other bush in the jumping rod is also giving problems that is also going to be changed.
5. Oil leak is still being diagnosed
6. After new radiator is fitted, tomorrow other things will be checked. Looks like the vehicle will stay in workshop till Saturday atleast

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Old 19th March 2009, 17:35   #866
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Tanveer this reminds me of "AK Roy's" Sumo...hope you get back the truck in healthy shape.

Last edited by lohithrao : 19th March 2009 at 17:39.
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Old 19th March 2009, 17:41   #867
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The pressurised cooling system has nothing to do with the amount of coolant, (TRUE) amount of coolant is determined based on the volume required for circulation around the engine block and head along with the cabin heater system. (and the size of the radiator, therefore total volume of coolant reduces, to allow designers to use a thinner radiator and make a smaller engine bay)

Pressurized cooling system was devised to raise the boiling point of coolant by apprx 25 deg C vs non-pressurized, this is achieved by using the valve based pressure radiator cap. (again, true)

Again the water pump helps circulate the coolant but has no role to play in the overflow. The cooled coolant from the radiator is pumped around the engine block and head and then into the radiator, this is how it flows (true, but a higher flow rate allows the coolant to overflow from an open filler hole if the radiator cap is not in place - as I said, try this with a cold engine and rev up while the cap is removed. This loss of coolant has nothing to do with evaporation either).

The overflow is caused by another reason. When the pressure in the radiator builds up due to heating of the coolant the radiator cap acts as a vent and opens up(valve mechanism) to let the coolant flow into the coolant bottle and similary when it cools down, it sucks back the coolant. (true again)

Now when it heats up beyond a limit(overheating) it will throw up more coolant than the bottle can handle and in turn will overflow from the bottle also. (true again - overheating resulting in overflow from the bottle is because the boiling temp. of the coolant has been reached when it is in its unpressurized state, and the liquid boils out of the bottle itself - and the bottle is also overfilled - and green stains are seen around the bottle. But my comment is related to the questions as to why Tanveer's coolant disappeared so quickly due to evaporation. No boiling happened, so no green marks around seen overflow bottle. NO EVAPORATION TOOK PLACE EITHER.)

Hope this clarifies.
with your points dadu, and I do understand how the modern cooling system works; I probably didn't clarify in my previous post adequately that it was not evaporation that made Tanveer lose his coolant (and his cool ). My replies are posted in bold within brackets above.

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 19th March 2009 at 17:45.
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Old 19th March 2009, 18:09   #868
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Originally Posted by dadu
The pressurised cooling system has nothing to do with the amount of coolant, (TRUE) amount of coolant is determined based on the volume required for circulation around the engine block and head along with the cabin heater system. (and the size of the radiator, therefore total volume of coolant reduces, to allow designers to use a thinner radiator and make a smaller engine bay)
That means if they make a 50 or 100 bar pressurized cooling system, the size of the radiator could be made about the size of a credit card?!
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Old 19th March 2009, 18:17   #869
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That means if they make a 50 or 100 bar pressurized cooling system, the size of the radiator could be made about the size of a credit card?!
Only if the designers are idiots. The radiator's job is to cool the liquid, it has to be big enough to radiate the heat through the fins. Credit card size won't do it.
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Old 19th March 2009, 18:22   #870
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Only if the designers are idiots. The radiator's job is to cool the liquid, it has to be big enough to radiate the heat through the fins. Credit card size won't do it.
Precisely, Samurai!
I do not believe, as DocSS has said above, that the pressurized cooling system helps reduce the size of the radiator. Pressure merely elevates the boiling point of the cooling medium.
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