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Old 19th March 2009, 18:30   #871
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
The radiator's job is to cool the liquid, it has to be big enough to radiate the heat through the fins. Credit card size won't do it.
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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
That means if they make a 50 or 100 bar pressurized cooling system, the size of the radiator could be made about the size of a credit card?!
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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Precisely, Samurai!
I do not believe, as DocSS has said above, that the pressurized cooling system helps reduce the size of the radiator. Pressure merely elevates the boiling point of the cooling medium.
I said a THINNER radiator, not a SMALLER radiator. Mathur-saab, what bar are you talking about? No, no, no, please don't set off with another explanation...
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Old 19th March 2009, 18:36   #872
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Quote:
Pressure merely elevates the boiling point of the cooling medium.
PVT Pressure Volume and Temperature are inter dependent. PV=rT

Coolant volume is reduced by a) leakage b) evoporation as a result of inefficient heat exchange pressure is built up due to water boiling.

In efficient heat exchange can be caused primarily by a) failure / malfunctioning of cooling fan b) Blockage in finned circulating tube of the radiator.

malfunctioning of Coolingfan could be due to a)poor electric contact at connector b) bad thermostat.

Check at Engine temperature Thermostat,
check at Radiator fan electric connector bad contact,
Check at Radiator , tubing, cap for bLeakage

my 2 cents

Quote:
That means if they make a 50 or 100 bar pressurized cooling system, the size of the radiator could be made about the size of a credit card?!
Mathurji,

It is impossible as heat exchange type cooling is largely depending on the area of the radiator for faster heat dissipation. Additional Radiator fan help achieving by forced flow of air to remove heat from the fins.

The crush /damage / oxidation in the cooling aluminium fins are also a cause for poor heat dissipation from the radiator circulating tube.

High pressure coolant circulation / pumping without apporpriate heat dissipating area will not help engine to peform.

Last edited by Rehaan : 20th March 2009 at 09:49. Reason: Post merged. Please avoid consecutive posts, also -- see how to use the QUOTE button in our FAQs. Thanks.
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Old 19th March 2009, 18:49   #873
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Originally Posted by harimakesh View Post
Mathurji,

It is impossible as heat exchange type cooling is largely depending on the area of the radiator for faster heat dissipation.
Well understood, Hari!
Kindly see the shock in my post!
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That means if they make a 50 or 100 bar pressurized cooling system, the size of the radiator could be made about the size of a credit card?!
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Old 19th March 2009, 21:45   #874
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
In my case it does not seem so simple.
They have found a leakage from the radiator itself, from somewhere near the battery.
So they are going to open the radiator, check for faults, and in case of any faults, change the radiator itself.
After that other issues like erratic idle on cold start, engine oil leakage, suspension noise will be looked into.
ahaa.. suspected the same, the radiator assembly is one of the 'touchy' parts as I am told, and even if a slight touch with a steep bumper or stones can bring about problem. I did not want my prediction to be true, it is one more twist to a neverending nightmare it seems...

bit out of topic, one of my friends Fiesta had hit a dog at 90kph. The dog went running away as he/she landed into a bush, and car incurred a 90K cost since the radiator was badly damaged!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Well understood, Hari!
Kindly see the shock in my post!
Are we not moving away towards thermal engineering? you guys are reminding me of my heat transfer classes in college (I had to attend that one, as the subject was taught by my Head of the department).. going OT again..

But I am surprised at what all is working fine in that vehicle? Each day a new fault!!!!! May be one can hook a laptop each day while starting the engine... what about this deal... laptop free with Safari along with a mobile net connection?

No offense meant to whoever owns/loves safari BTW. Please do not pounce on me.

Note from the Team-BHP Support Team: Please use the "edit" button if posting within 15 minutes of the first post, instead of creating another back-to-back post

Also use "Multi Quote" option for quoting Multiple posts.

Last edited by Jaggu : 19th March 2009 at 22:27. Reason: Multi quote
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Old 19th March 2009, 23:39   #875
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What I dont understand is this : If this is pressurized and not the earlier President sort of system, then why did the coolant from the reservoir did not move into the radiator ? Due to pipe that was malfunctioning or came lose ? If that got lose why the coolant from reservoir did not leak as obviously the coolant will try to go into radiator ?
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Old 20th March 2009, 03:40   #876
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Two extremely bad days at work and i missed all these actions Though by now we can surely come out with a handbook of Safari plights and their solutions with special thanks (or a foreward?) from Tanveer.

Should I confess I happen to work for TATA in Quality Assurance??? Should I jot down my will immediately?
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Old 20th March 2009, 08:23   #877
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OT Point#1 Pressure Volume and Temperature equation means that if you have higher pressure system then you can elevate the temperatures. And with elevated temperature the temp. differential increases (air temp and coolant temp) so area can be reduced. Theory is fine but then other consideration of design come in......

OT Point#2 Coolant will only flow back in if there is vacuum in the radiator. This can only be achieved if there is no air (gas vs liquid fluid expansion behavior/principles). If your radiator and cap are functioning and you have topped up before closing the expansion of liquid due to heating up results in coolant overflow and coolant is sucked in when cooling / contraction takes place. Provided there is no air in radiator.

@tsk1979:
The leak in radiator also needs to be understood. Was it due to some stray pebble or something? Or was it due to repeated impact of some car part - like battery corner? I have had radiator leak in a Zen due to horn coming loose and hanging agaist the fins. A small leak (less than 1mm) but sufficient to kill the cooling system.
An internal cause would get repated unless rectified. And the first really can not be TATA issue.
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Old 20th March 2009, 08:27   #878
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The leak is at some joint where some hose goes into radiator. Its near the top of the radiator. Nothing there which can hit radiator. So either its due to damage by tools when injectors/fuel pump was replaced, or its due to it being Tata, the hallmark of lousy quality, and I am willing to bet on the latter.
In my entire life I have never heard of a faulty accelerator pedal, this is the worst time. No wonder QA guys life in Denmark, so users can't go and throttle them
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Old 20th March 2009, 08:33   #879
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Well fly by wire throttle are new concepts and instead of replacing wire (admittedly now of much much better life and quality) you now replace the pedal assembly 8-)
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Old 20th March 2009, 08:48   #880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
1. Accelerator Pedal has been changed
What???? Why?? A pedal changed for?

Really dont understand why you are still holding on to this vehicle and not initiate the sell process when still it can find some value. And you are planning on a long weekend ride or even Leh and Ladakh!!

Or like you are thinking to have the vehicle go through a complete overhaul and then dump the list with TM and ask for replacement - even if the remote possibility work out like a replacement, big time doubts and extreme uneasiness will still remain.

What is the thought process like now? - surely a court case you would have done if it was feasible - you do have real time lawyer advice easily available.

Last edited by adc : 20th March 2009 at 08:49.
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Old 20th March 2009, 08:53   #881
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Tie rod end has to be changed. This was cause of the "Khat", which did not go away even after tightnight the idler arm
4. Some other bush in the jumping rod is also giving problems that is also going to be changed.
They had changed the tie-rod on my vehicle also. This was when they changed the alternator(it was a recall)

Last edited by kingshukt : 20th March 2009 at 09:03.
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Old 20th March 2009, 09:07   #882
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Looking at the pictures adc posted and Jaggu marked, I can assure you guys that both the hoses used are of the correct type.

My doubt is that the thin hose - which looks like a straight hose bent into shape to give it direction could be the culprit. Due to the bend on the way the path of the coolant would be blocked.

guess if Tata got a pre-formed hose according to the routing or they change the routing, it might work.

I am saying all this looking only the pictures (could be way off too)
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Old 20th March 2009, 09:44   #883
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Really dont understand why you are still holding on to this vehicle and not initiate the sell process when still it can find some value. And you are planning on a long weekend ride or even Leh and Ladakh!!
Interesting though. With election fever in full swing there is demand for Safari's in second hand market since many buyers are looking for good vehicles but not willing to pay full cheque, if you what I mean.
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Old 20th March 2009, 10:17   #884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sudev View Post
Interesting though. With election fever in full swing there is demand for Safari's in second hand market since many buyers are looking for good vehicles but not willing to pay full cheque, if you what I mean.
OT: Yeah yeah sell it off to one of those corrupt politician!! so that his/her campaign gets screwed
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Old 20th March 2009, 10:42   #885
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OT
@TSK:there is news in todays newspaper,in which consumer court has asked TATA Motors to pay 5 Lakhs for selling defective indica,something similar to your case.
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