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Old 21st May 2009, 12:14   #1096
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
A lot of people wonder why I call her the white elephant. IS it because the words like beast, bear bull, cow, monkey.. etc., are already taken?
Well partly yes, but more so due to the cost to me.
Cost includes mental cost(stress, fear factor etc.,) and the financial cost.
Yes financial cost. This is no slouch to maintain. Even in warranty. For example wheel bearing change has me 909rs poor.
Why?
Because while the bearings are covered under warranty, the seals and grease are not. And for the 4x4, the seals cost a whopping 357+taxes. Thats a lot of money for something which does not even last 17000kms.

I am attaching the history sheet of my white elephant, enjoy!
The Tyre purchases although is a cost to you but cannot be termed as a routine maintenance cost as they were damaged (not deliberating on why) .

Usually a tyre replacement and that too 2nos is not required at 14k odd Kms of run and this should be treated as a one-off incidental cost of Rs7500.
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Old 21st May 2009, 12:15   #1097
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Originally Posted by dadu View Post
The Tyre purchases although is a cost to you but cannot be termed as a routine maintenance cost as they were damaged (not deliberating on why) .

Usually a tyre replacement and that too 2nos is not required at 14k odd Kms of run and this should be treated as a one-off incidental cost of Rs7500.
2 more coming soon . Half the tread is almost gone due to alignment fiasco. I will get them just before the Leh trip
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Old 21st May 2009, 12:24   #1098
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Hi,

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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
for the 2Ltr TCIC it was every 5000 kms.
My November 99 safari had a service every 4000kms and an oil change at every 8000kms.

This one was with me between November 99 and July 2005 and ran 76000kms. from 01/04/2001 to when it was sold, I spent Rs 93338.00 as expenses including tyre, battery as well as Rs 6200 for painting prior to selling it. This is from my Tally accounts. I don't have more details of this period as well as the time before 01/04/2001.

Tyres and suspension were the issues of the older Safaris. No work on clutch or engine.

Mine was a August 98 Safari bought new and registered in November 99.
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Old 21st May 2009, 12:26   #1099
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Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
What matters here is not the costs. I feel that its the lack of 'peace of mind'.
This holds true for customers who bought the Safari for high miling.

As such one is left with a bitter experience. Im 200% sure that if tsk is in the market for another vehicle, he will not opt for anything Tata, no matter how good the product lienup may seem and how much vfm it may offer, for only one reason, " peace of mind".

Now i cannot even imagine the plight of Skoda owners, who have been abandoned by the company, post purchase.
ss

Hey Jaysmokesleaves

Am one Safari user at 150,000 kms who has been through his fare share of troubles and would love to buy the next safari once again. My family also thinks that I should do it. Though it has been stranded on the road a few times (timing belt failure once) and Fan Propeller failure once. Possibly caused in both cases by erratice maintenance.

The Safari also once got me through 2.5 feet of water to my home with parents alone at home, just before flood water entered home as well. This happned the year after 26th July in Mumbai (where the entire Safari was submerged under water at kalina the epicentre at my office). It happened at Thane on 27th July the next year and 28th July the year after. Water entered my bungalow both years and on the first one, the safari miraculusly got me home just before the worst happened with parents who were clueless at home. The next day Hella fog lights mounted almost at the bonnet level in from of the smiling grill were half filled with water. (Indicating the level to which water had risen when I drove it home. The safari still started of with one start right in the morning. The Ceilo was sunk irreparably.

By the way on the other comment of that you had on the skoda- am still living with Laura as well and she too has had her fare share of problems early on am at 60K with it, and few Lauras have gone so far till now. But am keep a watch on the Skoda problems on the forum and the resolution before I write off the company.

Have seen your thread on the Valve replace ment issue that had the 2.2 safari unavailable for more than a month, and felt the you were quite cool in your approach. Well I too have been quite cool to these issues though i have not faced these situations with the Safari the sheer flexibility and outdoor capability that it provides makes one feel safe in it.

My experience is that issue once respoved do not repeat them selve even in the long run.
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Old 21st May 2009, 14:15   #1100
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
But removing error codes does not fix any problem. Error codes are diagnostic error messages.
Tanveer, its is not the error codes that are reset.....I was asking if they reset any parameters after the error code popped up & do you know what it is that they reset. I guess not.

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Rs 1/km is good, but only later in the life. In the beginning stages when no brake pads etc., are up for replacement, its actually quite a high cost. Hopefully, she will spring no more surprises!
I'm not sure why the comparison between Safari & Indica maintenance costs are coming up. When you spent close to 10 lacs on this vehicle, were you under the impression that the cost of maintenance would be anywhere near that of an Indica? Surely its no rocket science that the Safari would cost more to maintain?

Comparisons can perhaps be made (if you have access to data) with maintenance costs of an Endeavour or a Scorpio. Even when doing that, please leave out the tyres etc which have nothing to do with regular maintenance costs IMHO.
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Old 21st May 2009, 15:13   #1101
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I'm not sure why the comparison between Safari & Indica maintenance costs are coming up.
May be he is trying to tell us of the high cost of maintenance for the Indica
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Old 21st May 2009, 15:47   #1102
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LOL techno. Actually I should have compared it to other Safari owners. Compared to others my safari experience is turning out to be more expensive(if we ignore the tires, since thats just my bad luck).

Moreover I am worried about the fact that every 2000-3000kms my safari needs to spend couple of days in the workshop. First it was brakes, then it was service light, then it was radiator, tie road, and I have had 2 breakdowns in less than a year, after that it was the bearings.
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Old 21st May 2009, 16:40   #1103
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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
One would know the true maintenance cost for the safari only when it has 1L kms on the meter. 4 yrs warranty for 100,000 kms is actually a good deal on the safari. I think every service for the new 2.2 Dicor is 15,000 kms. for the 2Ltr TCIC it was every 5000 kms.
For the 2.2 VTT Dicor as per service book in 15k and I am doing it at 5K. The warranty is for 150,000/4 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rrsteer View Post
Also if I was not aware of the peace of mind costs that you have incurred (which have been huge), even the maintainance costs would seem pretty ok. If I exclude the tyre costs, your repair bill stands at 8760/-. The total service costs of my M800 after the service done at 20k kms was slightly more than Rs 4000/-
Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
I'm not sure why the comparison between Safari & Indica or even a Maruti maintenance costs are coming up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Compared to others my safari experience is turning out to be more expensive(if we ignore the tires, since thats just my bad luck).
Thats an interesting km per cost you have out there and of course the repair cost/km is not purely objective and quite a few variable factors are there:

1. Of course the tyres dont count, I have banged up front tyres on the divider in UP and the alignment went out and on that travelled 800 km to Cal and one side tread went out of both front tyres, also now a sidewall tear after the mountain run in N Sikkim. So, will be changing the tyres before Ladakh but that if strictly calculating that cannot can be classified as my Safari vehcile repair cost.

2. Also you have put the oil change into the repair - which as seen is done 2 times, per 7.5k voluntarily. This again cannot come under strict vehicle repair cost as any vehicle onnwer will be paying for lube and filter cost def initely. Also a maruti diesel car owner will fill up around 3.5l whereas a Safari owner is at 7.5L.

I change oil at even earlier intervals - at 5-5.5K km. So in that way there I incur more cost. If reasoning, then may be I do not need to change at every 5K for the 2.2 with GTX diesel, but then for just peace of mind...

Also used Bardahl engine flush & tune-up twice, which again is in the repair/service cost - which should not be, and was voluntarily done.

3. Plus AFAIR, may be on this forum, only my Safari VTT has undergone full body antirust treatment which came at a cost of who has done full body rust protection Rs 3560 - which again I cannot put in the repair cost.

4. During the Sunabeda forest run, the Safari was abused like anything - was driving on 1-4 feet deep craters with 6 people on board plus the NH6 was in bad condition and was driving quite fast as had to join office/start work in the morning, as a result the rear rubber bush and some link rod had to be changed. Now again I cannot put that as repair cost.

5. Like read somwhere, someone changed diesel filters at 15k and will change again at 30k - again a voluntary cost, which both of us did not do.

6. Paid wheel alignments I have done twice, on my own, because of the way I used/abused - in absolute cost surely but not in strict repair cost

7. I voluntarily changed the air filter, with a final bill of Rs 725 with VAT, before the HP tour, which also could have been avoided.

8. And another point - I mostly used premium [70% of the kms] - as such my diesel/L is quite higher than you and also the diesel/L cost is much cheaper in around Delhi/Punjab side.

9. Also accessories - like seat cover, music system, sun film [window and windscreen], AC adaptor - is again higher than yours.

But still if I follow your methodology and take all those into account, ie the voluntary oil change at 5k, the 3M antirust treatment, the rear bush damanged again due to the way it was abused, and etc, it comes to like this


FUEL LITRES 2423 L
FUEL TOTAL COST Rs 87712 - not the cheapest diesel/L out here plus 70% is premium diesel fuel.
SERVICE/REPAIR TOTAL
[INCLUDING VOLUNTARY REPAIR/SERVICE] 19894.76 [WITH VAT, SERVICE TAX AND CESS]

ACCESSORIES Rs 22000
GRAND TOTAL Rs 129,606
DISTANCE DONE TILL LAST FUEL 28107 KM

COST/KM Rs 4.61

If I take out my voluntary service/repair whether done before service interval or at the interval, changing filters, and oil change that I do at every 5k km, the repair cost is very, very less!


Hey in fact you have a quite a perfect vehicle right now, most of the problems has been put behind! Good luck!!

Last edited by adc : 21st May 2009 at 16:58.
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Old 21st May 2009, 17:17   #1104
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Originally Posted by adc View Post

Hey in fact you have a quite a perfect vehicle right now, most of the problems has been put behind! Good luck!!
Do I? Every 3000kms or so I go to workshop because something goes bust. First it was brake problem, then it was service light, then it was 4x4, then it was tie rod, then radiator and the latest, bearings!
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Old 21st May 2009, 17:28   #1105
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Do I? Every 3000kms or so I go to workshop because something goes bust. First it was brake problem, then it was service light, then it was 4x4, then it was tie rod, then radiator and the latest, bearings!
I didnt imply that, did I? Of course you had gone through all those, and no one will tell that you had a good ownership TILL NOW. What I am implying and said is good luck from NOW ON [right now] and lets hope everything quietens from this last fiasco that you had. In fact, in my ownership reports I still go on with the words "no issues TILL NOW"

Hey do empathize and as such lets hold on to the hope that everything comes out okay now.

Last edited by adc : 21st May 2009 at 17:36.
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Old 21st May 2009, 18:38   #1106
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Hey do empathize and as such lets hold on to the hope that everything comes out okay now.
That, is exactly what I meant when I said 'peace of mind'.
Surely, tsk too 'hopes' that all that all the problems are laid to rest and he does not have to visit a Tass over the next 3000 kms. But that does not do anything to give him peace of mind, while he continues to hope.

Hope never dies, but we die hoping.

@ADC > your cost/km is mainly due to the extra expenses you have incurred of your own will. The cost/km calculation IMHO should be based on the manufacturers service requirements. If I do 3 services every 15k kms, that does not reflect the vehicles ownership cost as per manufacturer estimates.

Lastly, even if the cost of ownership is 0.50paise/km and you have to spend time in apprehension and hope, that IMO is more expensive than 4rs/km, because the tension is not worth it.

You are lucky adc, its not been so for tsk.
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Old 21st May 2009, 19:00   #1107
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Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
The cost/km calculation IMHO should be based on the manufacturers service requirements./
JKDas could have his cost/km up, he is covering serious kms, AFAIK doing mostly regular home-office-home runs, but most probably he will be using the full 150000 km up in his 4 years.

Quote:
Hope never dies, but we die hoping.

You are lucky adc, its not been so for tsk.
And you never know when luck runs out or luck returns back, so good luck to all...

Last edited by adc : 21st May 2009 at 19:19.
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Old 21st May 2009, 22:02   #1108
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... Off roading would only spoil your suspension not the bearings unless you throw caution to the wind.
I fail to understand the technical basis on which you have made this comment! Off-roading places no additional burden on the bearings? Is that what you are saying?

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
A If they have opened up the entire suspension, I think alignment will also be needed!
Yes, wheel alignment will very much be absolutely necessary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
I think the reason why TASCs don't have the alloy wheel type is because of the investment involved vis a vis the fact that most vehicles coming in are on normal steel wheels.
So what about the variants with OEM alloy wheels? Surely this is at best a very lame excuse!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajneeesh View Post
I have faced far fewer problems with my car although it is more than 5 yrs old with 86 K on the clock.
Such is Tata magic, LOL!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
What matters here is not the costs. I feel that its the lack of 'peace of mind'. ...
..., for only one reason, " peace of mind".
.
Couldn't agree more with you on this crucial aspect, Jay!

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Originally Posted by dadu View Post
The Tyre purchases although is a cost to you but cannot be termed as a routine maintenance cost as they were damaged (not deliberating on why) .
Wonder how you can say that, Dadu. This has been a given with Tata vehicles for the last 15 years, LOL! They all chew up tyres!

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
2 more coming soon . Half the tread is almost gone due to alignment fiasco. I will get them just before the Leh trip
Dadu, please take note.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
Am one Safari user at 150,000 kms who has been through his fare share of troubles and would love to buy the next safari once again. My family also thinks that I should do it. Though it has been stranded on the road a few times (timing belt failure once) and Fan Propeller failure once.
More power to your abilities at being a stoic! Do try another brand of car to see what a troublefree ownership experience can mean.

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Originally Posted by suman View Post
Comparisons can perhaps be made (if you have access to data) with maintenance costs of an Endeavour or a Scorpio. Even when doing that, please leave out the tyres etc which have nothing to do with regular maintenance costs IMHO.
Suman, I can provide a detailed total cost of ownership for my Scorpio over the 33 months that I have owned it. It has travelled to almost all the coveted places in the Himalayas and has done a few 'jeep tracks' which jar the bejesus out of a vehicle! You have probably already read it, LOL!

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Originally Posted by adc View Post
Hey in fact you have a quite a perfect vehicle right now, most of the problems has been put behind! Good luck!!
Certainly did not expect this from you, ADC!
Is it sooooo difficult to put yourself in Tanveer's shoes and imagine what he is going through?
JaySmokesLeaves has hit the button dead centre! Peace of mind has to have some 'VALUE' associated with it?!!

Last edited by anupmathur : 21st May 2009 at 22:04.
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Old 21st May 2009, 23:16   #1109
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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Such is Tata magic, LOL!


Wonder how you can say that, Dadu. This has been a given with Tata vehicles for the last 15 years, LOL! They all chew up tyres!


Do try another brand of car to see what a troublefree ownership experience can mean.

Ah! Mr Mathur, somehow had a gut feeling you would be latching up to those words, take words out of context, generalise --somehow there's an attempt like to convert this to a Tata/Safari vs Mahindra/Scorpio "magic" thread.

Just like the Sumo's had 15 years back and then rectified and you then bring that point out and paint it like that the tyre thread lost in TSK was due to Safari vehicle construction defect - you recall any other Safari VTT members having such "inherent" problems??? You surely have gone through the thread and understood why the tyre threads was lost?


Quote:
Certainly did not expect this from you, ADC!
Is it sooooo difficult to put yourself in Tanveer's shoes and imagine what he is going through?!
Again you have taken my words out of context and/or jumped in giving out a reply.

One thing sure that same post I posted "Like you arent a bhpian enough if you dont have problems with a Safari" and "MMOs" is still relevant

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-...ml#post1195211

and "empathization" was enough in that second half of that post.


Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
Hey in fact you have a quite a perfect vehicle right now, most of the problems has been put behind! Good luck!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
I didnt imply that, did I? Of course you had gone through all those, and no one will tell that you had a good ownership TILL NOW. What I am implying and said is good luck from NOW ON [right now]

The perfect part - For the first time TSK has a zero list of complaint pending, as far as I see now, particularly the brake problem[rear skid] and the other pending things that he had. For those jumping around, empathizing, as I said - right now its perfect with all the complaints taken care of - the good luck part to him was that he comes out of the 3000 km loop of problems.



Quote:
Suman, I can provide a detailed total cost of ownership for my Scorpio over the 33 months that I have owned it.
Yeah I have mine up in LTOR to compare with your provided one - we do consider "issueless" wrt to vehicles right?, buttt then how it helps TSK - it just becomes another Safari-Scorpio thread!! Was searching for your LTOR thread....


Geez, all this "good luck" and "hoping that the white elephant remains perfect" seems to bring out my lack of empathization - I am out of this thread for my own "peace of mind"

Let me leave by saying - the good luck and good hope to TSK stands...

Last edited by adc : 21st May 2009 at 23:35.
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Old 21st May 2009, 23:41   #1110
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ok for the record tata vehicles do not eat tires.
I have had that misfortune, because after tie rod replacement alignment was not done. If such a thing happens with any vehicle, it will eat tires.
As for the other 2 tires, one had a blowout on the highway(I honestly don't blame tata for that), and another one got a bulge(due to a stone probably). So as of now, none of the 2 tires I replaced are Tatas fault. however, the 2 tires which have half the tread gone could have been saved if the workshop had informed me that they do not have alignment machine and I should get it done from outside.

The reason I put so much faith in the workshop, because there is a chappie from Tata motors customer care who frequents that workshop, and he keeps on insisting that TASCs have the best alignment machines, and I should get alignment done from the service station and not tire shop, as their quality control is very strict and they frequently check the alignment machines at service centers. At that moment, all I shuddered at the thought of QC by Tata motors. They can't get QC done for their safari!

And adc, looks like my troubles are not over. The "Follow me home" lights have stopped working. When I switch off at night, there is no follow me home. But I will look at the bright side. No more watchmen etc., running after me and telling me "light on hai"!
But I am not going to the service center to get that fixed. I think it may start working again on its own.
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