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Old 1st August 2009, 12:12   #1201
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Originally Posted by HappyWheels View Post
And I am sure, for what its worth, you might have given enough weak points for the TATA engineers to work & improve upon (hope they do that!)
As far as I know, there is no defect in the engineering, when the vehicles are developed and tested by ERC. Issues are at the assembly level and with the vendor QC. The new safari is currently doing its rounds of test at ERC now and am sure it will come up well.

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
devdath, your question has no simple answer.
You want to keep a vehicle for 7 years with minimal niggles. To be safe the only option below 10L in MUV/SUV seg,ment is innova. If your budget goes upto 20L then options also increase.
If you want a SUV below 10L, you can choose either the Safari and Scorpio, and both will give you niggles. If you are unlucky you will have troubles like me or m_upreti but if you are lucky you can have a reliable vehicle like Gowda or Anupmathur.
So in the end its your call. You have to take the plunge!
Well summed up tsk, there are good experiences and bad ones as with everything in life.

Devdath, if you want to be dead sure, go for a new TCIC, check if they still give a 4x4 option in TCIC.
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Old 2nd August 2009, 15:34   #1202
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Default The Emperors new shoes - And idling circus again!

What a saturday.
Decided to get two almost gone Bridgestones with Off road tires.
Options were continental Cross Contact AT or Yokohama Geolander ATS
MY first choice, BF Goodrich All Terrain TA KO was not available anywhere, as michelin has replaced this one with Long Trail TA which is a mostly on road tire with some offroad capability. Yokohama was only 255 width available, so I gave a pass. and after experience of Rahul, I was vary of this tire. Moreover, online Continental had good rep in offroad review circles.

At the shop I was offered a good price for my JKs also, so decided to replace all 4.
First was the shock after the Elanzos came off. They are brand new, but internally they had small cracks

And I had been singing praises for this tire.
Checking with JK dealer gave the standard answer, you must have run it underinflated. No Guarantee if there is a crack.
The cracks were not in the sidewall, but under the main tread on the inside.
So the 3000rs/Tire became 2000rs/tire
Thankfully the almost gone Bridgestones, and the bridgestone which did duty as spare wheel did not have crack issue.

So all in all with weights, balancing, 3D alignmet I had 4 new Continental Cross Contact AT for around 17500.
Hopefully these will last, and see the car into 100,000kms.
The white elephant has been very unkind to tires, hopefully enough "Balidan" has been given and tire thirst has been cured.

Anyways, without further ado, here are the pics taken with a mobile cam
Safari EX 4x4 120000kms update-image002.jpg

Safari EX 4x4 120000kms update-image003.jpg

Safari EX 4x4 120000kms update-image004.jpg

Safari EX 4x4 120000kms update-image005.jpg

Now for the other update.
500kms after ECU change, the idle started surging again
800-900rpm surge range, and it happens after a high rpm run does not matter whether engine is hot or cold. On cold its a trifle more. If AC is switched off, idle surging is less.

So probably monday/Tuesday its time to visit the doc again!

Last edited by tsk1979 : 2nd August 2009 at 15:39.
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Old 2nd August 2009, 16:11   #1203
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oh lord the dreaded 'surge' comes again!
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Old 2nd August 2009, 16:51   #1204
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RWL tyres look nice
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Old 2nd August 2009, 20:19   #1205
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Tanveer - dumb thought. Did you check the alternator? Remember you guided me to single out the RPM surge on my Indigo?...
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Old 2nd August 2009, 20:23   #1206
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yawn, just another day with the elephant. Let us know when tata decides to change the engine. every other part has been replaced already.
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Old 2nd August 2009, 20:39   #1207
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i guess the injectors ( delphi ones i presume) might have some problems.
if the injector solenoid valves have a delay in closing of the valves( due to low sensitivity to current changes!), due to high rail pressure. more diesel gets injected resulting in slight engine rpm surge

this might be a reason. do not ask me how i know this stuff

another possible cause might be the ECU getting false load inputs( these can include malfunctioning sensors A - Z). leading to more diesel getting injected and hence again rpm surge.

hope this helps.
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Old 3rd August 2009, 00:05   #1208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Tanveer - dumb thought. Did you check the alternator? Remember you guided me to single out the RPM surge on my Indigo?...
Yes alternator was replaced and changed, but no result

Quote:
Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
yawn, just another day with the elephant. Let us know when tata decides to change the engine. every other part has been replaced already.
I wish!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post
i guess the injectors ( delphi ones i presume) might have some problems.
if the injector solenoid valves have a delay in closing of the valves( due to low sensitivity to current changes!), due to high rail pressure. more diesel gets injected resulting in slight engine rpm surge

this might be a reason. do not ask me how i know this stuff

another possible cause might be the ECU getting false load inputs( these can include malfunctioning sensors A - Z). leading to more diesel getting injected and hence again rpm surge.

hope this helps.
Injectors have been replaced, but did not help. They even put in a new common rail but that did not help either. After changing the ECU problem went away for 500kms and then again its back.
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Old 3rd August 2009, 01:25   #1209
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so then the problem is occurring probably after the ECU has adjusted to the driving patterns! but 500kms learning time is bit too much.

try checking the glow plug, AC related sensors, is the rail pressure sensor checked.?


the problem seems to be false load input from one sensor or more than one!!

check A-Z sensors.

check the ACC - Ped sensor. it might be possible that at ZERO ACC pedal position, some voltage is getting generated and hence ECU reads this.

but then for 500kms if it was not there after ECU change means probably ACC ped sensor is ok.

since when did this surge problem start and during ECU change was any other component changed or calibrated.?
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Old 3rd August 2009, 09:34   #1210
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Acc pedal has also been changed Even if you change the injector washer, problem goes away for a few hundred kms and comes back
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Old 3rd August 2009, 10:12   #1211
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Tanveer,

See if you can get TASS/TML to reflash your ECU to the latest and greatest Firmware. TML is doing some retrofits, for which the details are available in
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post1410197

Thanks
Rahul
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Old 3rd August 2009, 10:19   #1212
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wow is anything not changed in your safari. yikes!

since you mentioned the washer, i think its got to do with the vibrations?

does the safari have timing chain! or timing belt. if its the belt . then the timing gears might have some problems. if its the chain . check the chain with a new one and see whether the links are strong as the new one. do check the timing gears just in case.

can you attach the pic of the injection washer if possible. before and after the surge starts. is there any noticable difference. if yes. then just mentioning that also can help me suggest you solutions.

try the lame method mentioned below.
decouple the injector plugs and check the wiring harness i.e the pins at the injectors and the pins in the plugs for rust! probably the pre tdc injections are getting miscalculated due to this.

i hope the crank position and cam position sensor is already checked. dont know much about indian crdi engines. if it was an euro engine or korean engine i would have had a better idea. in all probability the indian engines make do without much sensors to keep costs low. hence the diagnosis is a headache.

frankly did it ever cross you? that you might have been given a lemon?!
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Old 3rd August 2009, 10:43   #1213
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Lemon? I hope not, I feel that Tata has been unable to diagnose this problem and tried hit and trial.
As for timing belt, I do not think its a mechanical issue but a sort of electronic one. So rust could be the cause.
Injectors have been changed multiple times so that could be the cause.
Other than that the common rail was also changed for trial, but issue did not go away.
I checked the odo again, its actually 200-300kms the problem starts coming. After 500kms its full blown again.
Earlier this problem used to happen only on cold start when ambient temp was below 15 degree C. However starting this summer, this problem is there at all times, whether engine hot or cold.
They even changed EGR and tried to see if it remains, and no change at all.
Probably tomorrow I will again take it to a different ASC and lets see what diagnosis they give
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Old 3rd August 2009, 11:01   #1214
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anyways good luck with your bull

do keep us posted lets see what the actual cause is
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Old 3rd August 2009, 21:24   #1215
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When they change the common rail, do they change the (high) pressure regulating valve?
What about the fuel high pressure pump? Changed already or not?
These are two distinct items.
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