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Old 11th November 2009, 09:47   #1366
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BJ,

I disagree. My fervent belief is that all greasemonkeys are incompetent including MSIL or Hyundai. No one would want to get a part changed (disturbing factory settings) unless the part is giving substandard performance!

TML quality is subpar - no two ways about it.
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Old 11th November 2009, 09:48   #1367
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Originally Posted by bj96 View Post
SX4/Verna will not forgive bad (off) roads, while, a safari/scorp will be more forgiving on such a terrain. Sx4/Verna would probably not cause as much headache while other two SUVs will be gentle on your posterior. You need to take a call, which one is better- headache or an aching ar** . Not to forget, you could fill 6/7 persons easily in a Safari/Scorp, if needed.

Take test rides on varying terrains with 4/5 adults and then decide. In my pursuit, Safari won over Corolla... well, I am partial to heart when I have to decide for big things in life

-BJ
Thanks "BJ". You are right. It is better to have a pain *** rather than having headache a hole in the pocket.But if we go by the threads then the reliability of Scorpio are amazing. As you said i need to take a test drive.

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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
@shishir_bn:

As long as there is traction with two wheels and additional ground clearance is not required cars can do this but car suspensions are generally meant for use on tarred roads and won't take repeated off-road abuse without costly repairs to the suspension and steering components. Not to mention low ground clearance when a protruding rock can break your steering linkages or puncture the oil sump.

I suspect this maybe the reason why military and UN vehicles etc are 4x4 vehicles with high ground clearance and not SX4s and Verna's.
You are right "4x4". We should have a good GC for any vechile which goes on roads having lots of rocks etc. like a trip to Mangalore from banaglore through shiradi ghat will show how sturdy your vehicle is.


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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
+1 to 4x4. Figure out what you want to do before buying an SUV for cosmetic reasons.

@Suman/Shishir - Anup ji's choice of words was off. The appropriate word wasn't happy owners but more like fill it-shut it-forget it ownership. Most safari ownership threads have enough talk of parts replacement and multiple TASS visits so the peace of mind can NEVER be compared with the ultra reliable SX4/Verna.

And must I point out - there's got to be a reason the hill drivers (himachal interiors, uttarakhand, UP terai and sikkim) I've seen just LOVE Mahindra. For sure they don't read team-bhp but they vote with where they deploy their limited resources!!

PS: As for myself, the Swift's asked for zilch except the regular wheel alignment and services. I am personally happy that I didn't go the SUV way though the car's seen as much hills as most SUV owners will!
Good to know that your swift has reached many places. Thanks for this input.
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Old 11th November 2009, 11:10   #1368
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Originally Posted by shishir_bn View Post
Thanks "BJ". You are right. It is better to have a pain *** rather than having headache a hole in the pocket.But if we go by the threads then the reliability of Scorpio are amazing. As you said i need to take a test drive.

It is my firm belif now that all these so called Indian SUVs are bullet proof as long as they're not taken to intended task and are driven as softroaders or posers else you should be prepared for occasional lemons.

Be careful and actually check how those reliable vehicles of XYZ brand are used. Read HumbLeh'd travelogue of Lalu K and check out the troubles developed in Scorps that went to Leh percentage wise it was high 2 out of 8. Also Milecrunchers Bolero is giving headaches in breaking department and caused enough dent in pocket.

So moral of story do not expect SX4 kind of ownership experience with M&M and Tata in case you travel to unchartered territories .

I am Safari owner and you should discount my views here as I may have a bias because mine is largely trouble free but then my vehicle is a tarmac 4X2 animal and does not accumulate that many KM so experience of any Safari or Scorp owner with my kind of driving can not be same as those of other hard drivers who take them to difficult terrines.
PS: I believe usage pattern of most of the reliable Scorpios are city dwelling , Auto terrorizing , Signal to Signal racers and not offroaders.
Similarly most Safaris are comfirt oriented potholed state highway cruisers and substitute of low GC car and not any offroading in real sense.

The reliable Mahindras mentioned in hilly areas often in threads are mostly old school jeeps and should not be mistaken for modern leviathans at least in hills of South India.

Last edited by amitk26 : 11th November 2009 at 11:13.
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Old 11th November 2009, 11:18   #1369
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Originally Posted by shishir_bn View Post
Frankly speaking i like SUV's(Safari/Scorpio) for highway riding and long drives and many other related benefits which it has. But sometimes i feel SX4/verna is also enough for the above said things. But the road presence is an important thing which will not be there in SX4/Verna. So i am fully confused on these and more so with all the post on SUV's.
Do not get carried away by the on paper GC and tyres of SX4, honestly it can not do more than 10% of what an SUV can do.

Its a perfect sedan for city and long drives which can handle bad roads occasionally, but its not a master of bad roads.
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Old 11th November 2009, 11:27   #1370
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I agree what "bharat" and "amit" are telling. SUV's are master of bad roads and compared to other sedans atleast the SX4 can handle quite bad roads. If i have to buy a Scorp/Safari then even my travel will be on tarmac and a monthly trip to my native(almost 400kms-one way) and that on tarmac with state highway potholes
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Old 11th November 2009, 12:13   #1371
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Guess this dicussion is getting a bit OT

Anyways if you plan to travel to coast often(Mangalore,Udupi) then go for a SUV/UV.



Quote:
Originally Posted by shishir_bn View Post
I agree what "bharat" and "amit" are telling. SUV's are master of bad roads and compared to other sedans atleast the SX4 can handle quite bad roads. If i have to buy a Scorp/Safari then even my travel will be on tarmac and a monthly trip to my native(almost 400kms-one way) and that on tarmac with state highway potholes
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Old 11th November 2009, 12:30   #1372
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oye! Stop hijacking my thread. And, you do not need SUV for bad roads. I did quite a few of himachal bad roads(chansal, Jalori etc.,) in the indica without any suspension damage. Of course could not do snow, slush or sand offroading in her.
Careful driving in a sedan with decent GC(170mm+) is enough to handle potholed roads.
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Old 11th November 2009, 16:35   #1373
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hahahaha sorry "tsk1979". I never thought of highkacking the thread. Was just letting the confusion thread inside the forum
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Old 23rd November 2009, 23:32   #1374
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Tsk1979 - just went through the entire thread. Of particular interest to me since you own one of the very few EX 4x4's on TBHP, mine being one. Not a very pleasant user experience I must say - being an owner of a 10 day old EX 4x4, keeping my fingers crossed

Will stay tuned...
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Old 24th November 2009, 12:12   #1375
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Tomorrow(Wednesday) I give her in for this issue again.
At cold start, the idle needle fluctuates madly, with engine note also clearly surging. More so with AC on.
Lets see what they change now, and whether it works!
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Old 24th November 2009, 12:26   #1376
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Ask them to give you a new engine!

Come'on how long has it been and the whole network and engineers cant figure out the problem yet?! I think its time they just swapped the whole engine with a new one instead of piece by piece business.

Another good reason for me NOT to recommend Tata's, thanks to their inconsistencies.
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Old 26th November 2009, 10:57   #1377
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Default Its a compression issue

For the benefit of those who have not following this thread, I will post a quick rehash.
She had been experiencing idle surging on cold starts from about 7000kms on the odo(which is at 31000 now).
Everything electronic was replaced, eg injectors, ECU, sensors etc., etc., but nothing worked.
The problem would come back.
As multiple workshops could not solve this issue, customer care involved the local Tata Engineer. Every zone has engineers which are part of the customer care technical support team, and they are called when a problem cannot be solved.
Under his guidance, the HLAs were changed, but the problem came back again.
Finally they started work on the problem again, after ruling out all electronic problems, decided to do a compression test.
And here's what they found. One of the cylinders had a leak, leading to a minor compression loss, which was more with engine cold.

The leak is from the valves.
So the fix for this leak is to replace the entire head. Today the engine will be opened, and the piston and cylinder bore will be inspected thoroughly.
They do not want to leave anything to chance, and if any anomaly is found, the entire engine will be replaced.

The engineer is confident that there is no engine damage because the leak is minor and normally when there is a problem, it manifests itself as frequent overheating etc.,
However if there is any issue, the white elephant gets a complete new engine block(head and bottom).

So fingers crossed. Looks like this may take a weeks time in case the engine warrants a replacement.
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Old 26th November 2009, 11:02   #1378
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Tanveer,cant you push them for engine replacement.?
Compression Loss at 30K kms is something one would never expect.
Give guys at tata a lot of
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Old 26th November 2009, 11:06   #1379
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Finally they started work on the problem again, after ruling out all electronic problems, decided to do a compression test.
And here's what they found. One of the cylinders had a leak, leading to a minor compression loss, which was more with engine cold.

The leak is from the valves.
.
Tanveer - congrats to TASC to finally trace the problem. The good side to this whole thing is the possibility of getting a new engine block.
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Old 26th November 2009, 11:32   #1380
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A valve leak leading to compression loss only on a cold engine?? How does that happen? Shouldn't you be facing surging & loss of power on a continuous basis if there is a valve leak?
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