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Old 30th November 2009, 16:13   #1426
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merc, going to external mechanic would void warranty which i dont think is a great choice to be done right now.
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Old 30th November 2009, 16:17   #1427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Its an ECU controlled system. there is no knob to rotate and set RPM.
Idle rpm for safari is 832rpm, and when vehicle is warm it sticks to 832. However on cold, it fluctuates between 800-900 rpm.
As for outside mechanic, what will he check?
He will surely say its a fuel pump problem or injectors.
Why i am asking so much of question's is because my car suffered the same problem but was gone away after my fuel pump(my car was not under warranty so have to get them repaired)+injectors(replaced).

if you are getting a bad compression in one of the cylinder than try to change intake\exhaust valves and piston rings. and as your car is under warranty you can do that sort of experimentation.

Anyways get your Fuel pressure checked too.
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Old 30th November 2009, 16:29   #1428
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The injectors and the Fuel pump were replaced, but no change.
As for fuel pressure, its normal(ECU readings show that on two different ECUs and sensors).
As for the exhaust/intake valves... The entire engine head has been changed(Complete new head!)
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Old 30th November 2009, 16:40   #1429
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
The injectors and the Fuel pump were replaced, but no change.
As for fuel pressure, its normal(ECU readings show that on two different ECUs and sensors).
As for the exhaust/intake valves... The entire engine head has been changed(Complete new head!)

Then probably only one thing is left that is
"Get the piston rings of the cylinder in which you are having uneven compression changed and check the accelerator sensor(that controll's throttle response)"
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Old 30th November 2009, 16:44   #1430
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Originally Posted by mercedised View Post
Then probably only one thing is left that is
"Get the piston rings of the cylinder in which you are having uneven compression changed and check the accelerator sensor(that controll's throttle response)"
LOL the accelerator pedal has also been changed
As for piston rings, they were checked to, no issues there.
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Old 30th November 2009, 16:47   #1431
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Just throwing something in the dark, MAF sensor ?? was it changed ?? its near your Air filter.

PS: Dont goto a local mechanic.
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Old 30th November 2009, 16:49   #1432
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Originally Posted by dadu View Post
Just throwing something in the dark, MAF sensor ?? was it changed ?? its near your Air filter.

PS: Dont goto a local mechanic.
Of course, I will not go anywhere except TASS.
As for MAF sensor, well it has been changed too, no change at all. Infact all sensors were changed. Everything electronic has been changed, and then refitted back when nothing happened.
This is a problem which has stumped all TASCs. Its been more than a year, and for the first time compression angle was looked at.
My guess is that there is still some compression leak somewhere, but the question is where!
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Old 30th November 2009, 17:00   #1433
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
LOL the accelerator pedal has also been changed
As for piston rings, they were checked to, no issues there.
You have gone through every possible thing.
I must say this that "I have never seen a person as calm as you".Because if it would have happened with me i would have gone totally mad.
coming to the topic
Try to set the RPM slightly above the normal 832(as mentioned by you), keep it upto 900RPM(or some more). I know that your's is a fully electronic SAFARI. but still try if you can get the IDLE RPM a bit more. or try to set the accelerator cable that's all i can suggest because i had already surrendered whatever i knew.
A last point as you mentioned that you only changed the fuel pump for testing purpose was it before car's HEAD was changed, if that was before than try this time "new head+new pump+new injectors"(just for testing purpose if the problem goes away).
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Old 30th November 2009, 17:00   #1434
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just a shot in the dark. but a cracked cylinder might do this, happened in my sumo1997 the way out was engine change.
we opted out by selling the vehicle.
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Old 30th November 2009, 17:02   #1435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Everything electronic has been changed...for the first time compression angle was looked at
The problem would be:

(1) at source- engine firing erratic or
(2) at (sink) display- rpm needle unbalanced/loose or
(3) a combination of both.

Have the TASS been able to identify as much?
Have they replaced the RPM display unit?
If not, they should test with a digital (no needle pointer) RPM gauge to isolate the issue first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mercedised View Post
Try to set the RPM slightly above the normal 832(as mentioned by you), keep it upto 900RPM(or some more). ... if you can get the IDLE RPM a bit more
mercedised, IMO, that will NOT solve the root cause. It will just fool the display. If frequency (RPM) is increased, the amplitude (needle movement) will be reduced (laws of physics) and you won't be able to notice with naked eyes the dance of RPM needle. It is like taking metacin to "cure" kidney stone


Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.abhijeet View Post
@ bj96
certainly loose rpm needle wont cause compression loss/leak.
I was just trying diagnostics. So the Engine looks suspect? A compression loss will potentially "retard" the ignition in the cylinder causing erratic pulse reported by RPM sensor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
TASS is reading RPM using ODBII scan gauge I guess else you can not read 832
Excellent observation amitk26.

-BJ

Last edited by bj96 : 30th November 2009 at 17:17. Reason: combine posts
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Old 30th November 2009, 17:04   #1436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercedised View Post
You have gone through every possible thing.
I must say this that "I have never seen a person as calm as you".Because if it would have happened with me i would have gone totally mad.
coming to the topic
Try to set the RPM slightly above the normal 832(as mentioned by you), keep it upto 900RPM(or some more). I know that your's is a fully electronic SAFARI. but still try if you can get the IDLE RPM a bit more. or try to set the accelerator cable that's all i can suggest because i had already surrendered whatever i knew.
A last point as you mentioned that you only changed the fuel pump for testing purpose was it before car's HEAD was changed, if that was before than try this time "new head+new pump+new injectors"(just for testing purpose if the problem goes away).
I want to add one more thing:
How many cylinders are leaking.?
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Old 30th November 2009, 17:08   #1437
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@ bj96
certainly loose rpm needle wont cause compression loss/leak.
@mercedised
increasing the rpm will not fix the problem, if at all there is compression leak which is nullified when the car is heated up, these hot cold cycles will cause the orifice of leak to increase and cylinder failure.

just my 2 cents
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Old 30th November 2009, 17:09   #1438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bj96 View Post
The problem would be:

(1) at source- engine firing erratic or
(2) at (sink) display- rpm needle unbalanced/loose or
(3) a combination of both.

Have the TASS been able to identify as much?
Have they replaced the RPM display unit?
If not, they should test with a digital (no needle pointer) RPM gauge to isolate the issue first.


-BJ
TASS is reading RPM using ODBII scan gauge I guess else you can not read 832. So if fluctuation is noticed by ECU it is there.

If Compression test showed drop in compression on cold engine and then it recovers after heating up it is definitely some seal , washer , gasket or a crack which fills up after expansion.
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Old 30th November 2009, 17:21   #1439
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another one and then I am out of guesses, Engine temperature sensor ?? changed. There are 2 in Safari, one for the cluster needle and other one for the ECU to control the fuel injection.

Last edited by dadu : 30th November 2009 at 17:25.
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Old 30th November 2009, 17:35   #1440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bj96 View Post
A compression loss will potentially "retard" the ignition in the cylinder causing erratic pulse reported by RPM sensor?
just a correction. Diesel has no ignition. What I meant by "retard" is that it will slow the explosion of fuel in the cylinder and hence impart lesser rotational momentum to the shaft in that stroke.

OT: Btw, how is RPM measured in Safari? is it from alternator pulse or from shaft speed?

-BJ

Last edited by bj96 : 30th November 2009 at 17:37. Reason: typo
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