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Old 17th December 2009, 20:35   #406
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Originally Posted by rr_zen View Post
I drive an Esteem which has HPS. Is this the same(as in the same technology) as the hydraulic power assisted steering found on the Civic ? Someone having driven both cars should be able to tell if there is a noticeable difference between the two.

And yes. I experience the same symptom as narrated by civic-sense in my Esteem too, at low speeds. Maybe it is common to all HPS vehicles ?
I have experienced in both the cars.
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Old 17th December 2009, 21:33   #407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rr_zen View Post
I drive an Esteem which has HPS. Is this the same(as in the same technology) as the hydraulic power assisted steering found on the Civic ? Someone having driven both cars should be able to tell if there is a noticeable difference between the two.

And yes. I experience the same symptom as narrated by civic-sense in my Esteem too, at low speeds. Maybe it is common to all HPS vehicles ?

Again, any pointers on why the City and Jazz have EPS (correct me if am wrong) while the Civic has HP-Assist.
EPS is cheaper and mechanically simpler. The Civic has EPS in the US too. Thank goodness we get the good JDM stuff.
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Old 17th December 2009, 21:41   #408
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EPS is cheaper and mechanically simpler. The Civic has EPS in the US too. Thank goodness we get the good JDM stuff.
EPS is the in thing these days as it helps more FE. Hydraulics is dying a natural death.
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Old 17th December 2009, 22:00   #409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
EPS is cheaper and mechanically simpler. The Civic has EPS in the US too. Thank goodness we get the good JDM stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by laluks View Post
EPS is the in thing these days as it helps more FE. Hydraulics is dying a natural death.
Thanks for the clarification. The point I am trying to understand is when Honda could offer EPS on the City and the Jazz what stopped them from providing the same to their bigger and better brother Civic?

If EPS could contribute towards better FE then all the more it makes sense to have it on the Civic which does not match the FE figures of the City.
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Old 17th December 2009, 22:06   #410
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Originally Posted by laluks View Post
EPS is the in thing these days as it helps more FE. Hydraulics is dying a natural death.
Hi Laluks
EPS is ok mainly for sedate and city driving, my City GXI 2004 has it. However when speeds rise the City becomes a handful, it does not insipre the same confidence as the hydraulic steering would, at least probably not the types we are getting in the City. The car feels loose and dangerous past 130-140 kmph.
With the Civic the feeling of confidence at high speeds is partly due the steering weighting up nicely and the car does not feel loose - it feels planted and secure.
Regards

+1 to ImmortalZ too!

Last edited by Cyborg : 17th December 2009 at 22:09. Reason: Added a comment.
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Old 17th December 2009, 22:06   #411
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Driving pleasure. EPS feels disconnected.
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Old 17th December 2009, 22:13   #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyborg View Post
Hi Laluks
EPS is ok mainly for sedate and city driving, my City GXI 2004 has it. However when speeds rise the City becomes a handful, it does not insipre the same confidence as the hydraulic steering would, at least probably not the types we are getting in the City. The car feels loose and dangerous past 130-140 kmph.
With the Civic the feeling of confidence at high speeds is partly due the steering weighting up nicely and the car does not feel loose - it feels planted and secure.
Regards

+1 to ImmortalZ too!
while I agree to disagree, the need for today is being clean. While my work is very close to these legislations I can only say enthusiasts are different and needs of the world different. Do I sound more like hopenhagen


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Driving pleasure. EPS feels disconnected.
Agree 100%

the legislations world over wants to be cleaner and greener. We'll lose hydraulics for ever soon.
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Old 17th December 2009, 22:20   #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyborg View Post
Hi Laluks
EPS is ok mainly for sedate and city driving, my City GXI 2004 has it. However when speeds rise the City becomes a handful, it does not insipre the same confidence as the hydraulic steering would, at least probably not the types we are getting in the City. The car feels loose and dangerous past 130-140 kmph.
Correct me if am wrong but I have read/heard that EPS cuts off beyond a certain speed. If this is the case, then the EPS would not be active at speeds you have mentioned above.
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Old 17th December 2009, 22:22   #414
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Originally Posted by laluks View Post
the legislations world over wants to be cleaner and greener. We'll lose hydraulics for ever soon.
Lets just put it this way - whatever happens in the future, let enjoy the present and the great feedback which the Civic offers with its hydraulic steering
Cheers
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Old 17th December 2009, 22:27   #415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rr_zen View Post
Correct me if am wrong but I have read/heard that EPS cuts off beyond a certain speed. If this is the case, then the EPS would not be active at speeds you have mentioned above.
IMO the power via EPS remain always on. Its only when the ignition is shut off - there is no power, which explain why the steering becomes a stone when you try to turn it with the ignition off.
The City with its EPS is dead as far as feedback is concerned and the car feels really skittish around the 130 mark, I have experienced it several time on the Mumbai Pune expressway.
Driving in the city with traffic makes it easier - however once you get used to the Civic its OK as well, so we get the best of both worlds
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Old 18th December 2009, 09:23   #416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
EPS is cheaper and mechanically simpler. The Civic has EPS in the US too. Thank goodness we get the good JDM stuff.
I have owned 3 hydraulics in the past and driven 1 EPS. I prefer hydraulic any day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by laluks View Post
EPS is the in thing these days as it helps more FE. Hydraulics is dying a natural death.
Not really. EPS is increasingly being used only on low cost cars. Until they improve feedback in EPS systems, I think, hydraulics are here to stay. I had been reading recently that manufacturers have recently started looking at something called electromechanical power steering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rr_zen View Post
Thanks for the clarification. The point I am trying to understand is when Honda could offer EPS on the City and the Jazz what stopped them from providing the same to their bigger and better brother Civic?

If EPS could contribute towards better FE then all the more it makes sense to have it on the Civic which does not match the FE figures of the City.
City and Jazz are city cars, and feedback is not an essential requirement. EPS steering is light and would do the job well for city runabouts. I don't think that somebody who would spend 10L plus on a car would think too much about FE. As ImmotalZ said above, thank god we didn't get EPS in the Civics in India.
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Old 18th December 2009, 09:43   #417
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It also depends on spacing of teeth on the rack. This essentially determines the steering ratio. If its sparse, steering takes more rotations. It also determines handling characteristics(cornering) at high-speeds. I believe, high-caster angle on the fronts in Civic, reduces the force on the rack and its so by design.

Imagine you floor the pedal while cornering and if the force exerted on the rack is minimized, you are essentially reducing understeer. So sparse teeth = handling, dense teeth = comfort.
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Old 7th January 2010, 16:14   #418
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Folks, my car is due for 2nd service and planning to go to Magnum Honda. Is there a known person in Magnum whom I can contact for slightly better service experience. Thanx.
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Old 9th January 2010, 11:36   #419
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been on a drive yesterday Blr-chennai-blr.
Onward Blr - Chennai - 03hours 15minutes (early morning drive roads were fairly empty, started at 03:00, reached by 06:15).
Return Chennai - Blr - 03hours 45 minutes (started at 16:00 reached back by 19:45)


Love the brakes even at 40K.
Stock tyres looks good for another 10K.

Good roads, Good Car

Last edited by laluks : 9th January 2010 at 11:38.
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Old 9th January 2010, 12:25   #420
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After a recent service, I was very pleasantly surprised. I perceived at least 10-15% increase in power / response and even slightly faster shifting on my AT. I asked the SA what was responsible and whether they had done any software upgrade. He said they had 'cleaned' the ecu. This apparently removed any 'corruption' and reset all sensors. So I said: you can't 'clean' an ecu, you have to re-program it or upgrade the software. He said there is no upgrade, but it was 'cleaned' / reset. So I asked him why not do this every service? He said that it is done only as per schedule.

I do suspect another software upgrade.

Last edited by sandeep108 : 9th January 2010 at 12:27.
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