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Old 19th July 2010, 22:28   #856
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Duplicate Post........
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Old 19th July 2010, 22:35   #857
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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
@manim: I always had a view that a battery is on borrowed time after 2 years. Maybe now I should modify it to warranty + 1 year. With the AT now I have about a two years to get Jumper Cables!
Agreed....my experience says that too. My 20 month old Altis' Exide OEM battery became weak and began to self discharge at an alarming rate though it could crank the engine. Of course I had it tested thoroughly by the dealer who was hesitant to recommend a new battery but eventually agreed with my observations after testing it for a few days. Experiences detailed in the Exide battery woes thread.

Not wanting to take a chance with what I saw was a battery on death row I replaced it with an Exide Matrix with a 60 month pro rata warranty. Strangely for some reason Toyota recommends and fits only Exide.

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could be that all the ECUs and stuff up there in Civic demands a lot from the battery.

Common parts here are mostly less electronics.
Modern cars take a lot from the battery and charging circuit...especially those with EPS. Other than the electrically operated driver seat, The Altis EPS is heavy on the charging circuit. It has a 60A fuse so its nominal current draw should be in the range of about 30-40A (my estimate) may be more....a really heavy load especially at low engine RPM and road speeds when you are backing up or turning. Hence the Altis comes with an upgraded alt and battery (100A and 45AH respectively) compared with the old Corolla's 70A and 35AH set up. I also recall GTO saying the German luxury cars go thru a battery every 2.5-3 years.

Trend is more the electronics and accessories, lower the battery life.

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Old 19th July 2010, 22:40   #858
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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Trend is more the electronics and accessories, lower the battery life.
In agreement here since it has a explainable logic than generalisation .



The AH of the battery is also high in such cars to cater to the intake requirements. The question is still, with the adequate Power capacity batteries also provided to match the intake requirements why should we think we strain them?

So in principle it just cannot be generalised that way as sgiitk put it. Probably the combination of many parameters like how much of start stops in a period, how much of your ICE usage, etc..etc.. leads to the life than a generalisation of 2 years.

As an example I conked of my inverter batteries in less than 2 years and got it replaced under warranty. Here I have an explainable logic due to the erratic power supply of Bangalore. After a deep discharge it never gets to fully charge before the next load due to the horrendeous power cut schedules. So in principle i starined the battery to the extend that it died. But again, the same set of batteries at my home town still runs, and it is over 4 + years!!.



If it was on a loan life term after 2 years why should warranty of replacement be blanketly given at 3 years? Agreed all suppliers give only prorated discounts after 3 years till 5years, which fairly leads to the situation that it can touch 5 years too.

Key here is usage profile, and agree with a normal usage profile of the SF that came in Civic, it just does not seem good that it dies like this.

With an EPS also, my swift ZXi seems to be fairly running to 4years on its stock batteries.

Last edited by laluks : 19th July 2010 at 22:59.
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Old 19th July 2010, 23:00   #859
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I think the comment was warranty + 1 year whcih means after market battery would last around 3.5 Years for sure and then it all depends...... and the OEM had only 1 years warranty and in most of the cases it is lasting more than 24 months time, this means OEM batteries are permorming as per mentioned ratings but it seems this is not enough as In my case around 65%+ drive is on noida to chd highway and normally I dont take more than 1 stop but 90% time I am doing this in night........

One Q. if car is running in night then does it drains current from battery or alternater is doing the job fully?
Becasue 33K km in total and major part on highway does not involve much start and stop......
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Old 19th July 2010, 23:04   #860
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once every 20K or 12 months
Are you sure? Because I think air filter is replaced every 10K and oil filter is replaced every 20K......
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Old 19th July 2010, 23:19   #861
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Originally Posted by laluks View Post
In agreement here since it has a explainable logic than generalisation .

The AH of the battery is also high in such cars to cater to the intake requirements. The question is still, with the adequate Power capacity batteries also provided to match the intake requirements why should we think we strain them?

So in principle it just cannot be generalised that way as sgiitk put it. Probably the combination of many parameters like how much of start stops in a period, how much of your ICE usage, etc..etc.. leads to the life than a generalisation of 2 years.

With an EPS also, my swift ZXi seems to be fairly running to 4years on its stock batteries.
I think I know where sgiitk is coming from. I have experienced these issues too. In the end battery life is determined by load, number of charge and discharge cycles, and ambient temperature. Hot tropical countries like India reduce battery life.Some car mfrs even insulate the battery from the heat in the engine compartment with a 'jacket' or heat shield. And our rough roads and stop/go traffic add to the problem.

Ever wonder why Indian battery mfrs offer a max of 30 months (2.5 years) replacement warranty and only pro rated after that period?

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Originally Posted by lalitk25 View Post
One Q. if car is running in night then does it drains current from battery or alternater is doing the job fully?
Becasue 33K km in total and major part on highway does not involve much start and stop......
Contrary to what most people think, it is the alt that supplies the power required to run any electrical system and charge the battery once the engine is running. Any excess demand over and above what the alt is producing at a given engine speed, is drawn from the battery.
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Old 19th July 2010, 23:33   #862
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Contrary to what most people think, it is the alt that supplies the power required to run any electrical system and charge the battery once the engine is running. Any excess demand over and above what the alt is producing at a given engine speed, is drawn from the battery.
So this means at any point of time (After engine starts) alt is supplying enough power to run all electricals and charging the battery if required, in case of suddent requirement of extra current, battery would be used (I am not sure what are those Instances may be high power amps or high power head lights) .....
So we can remove battery once car is started (In Normal Scenario)?
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Old 20th July 2010, 00:19   #863
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The easiest way to see if the engine mount is the actual problem:

1) Starting rattle. Cold starts will cause the car to shake and you'll hear a definite rattle that sounds like a metal plate banging against another metal plate for the first half a second or so.

2) You'll hear the same rattle if you hit potholes while turning right. This is very distinct and easily reproduce-able. Find a favorite roundabout and hit a pothole while turning right and going at around 20-30KMPH. If your mount is on it's way out, it'll rattle without fail every single time.

Unless you've been using dirty fuel, there is no reason for the injectors to be clogged. Double and triple check with experts before you go messing with the fuel system.

The engine mount will look perfect. There will be no fluid leak or cracked rubber that show the mount is faulty like with the normal mounts. The words my SA used was "it is loose. We've tightened it up, but it'll be out again in a couple of days. This is a known issue, your part has been ordered and it'll arrive in a week." They replaced mount without making any fuss.
Facing the above mentioned problem, There is also a judder from the engine while picking up from a halt in first gear. I guess the Engine mounts are gone, Will be sending the car over to the workshop tomorrow, No warranty means another 10K service bill, Who said Hondas are cheap to maintain
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Old 20th July 2010, 07:19   #864
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In the end battery life is determined by load, number of charge and discharge cycles, and ambient temperature. Hot tropical countries like India reduce battery life.
In agreement here. That's what I have mentioned too.

Do you have references to the studies done for the second point - temperature part?

The question still remains, is it just 2.5 years life or Usage pattern?

Last edited by laluks : 20th July 2010 at 07:20.
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Old 20th July 2010, 07:59   #865
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Are you sure? Because I think air filter is replaced every 10K and oil filter is replaced every 20K......
Here's the copy of the manual, which states air filter 20K and oil filter 10K, as a minimum.

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Old 20th July 2010, 08:11   #866
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thanks for the correction.....
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Old 20th July 2010, 09:08   #867
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Originally Posted by laluks View Post
In agreement here. That's what I have mentioned too.

Do you have references to the studies done for the second point - temperature part?

The question still remains, is it just 2.5 years life or Usage pattern?
You can check out www.batteryfaq.org for pretty comprehensive information on all kinds of lead acid batteries.

I think the 2.5 year life is a rule of the thumb. Many batteries go well beyond that to 4+ years. Best to keep an eye on the battery after it cross 24-30 months. Usage pattern i.e. charge discharge cycles will certainly impact life. Car batteries are not designed for deep discharges i.e >20% of their rated AH capacity with exception of special batteries like Optima Yellow tops etc. Deep discharges quickly reduce life.

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Originally Posted by lalitk25 View Post
So this means at any point of time (After engine starts) alt is supplying enough power to run all electricals and charging the battery if required, in case of suddent requirement of extra current, battery would be used (I am not sure what are those Instances may be high power amps or high power head lights) .....
So we can remove battery once car is started (In Normal Scenario)?
Yes, a sudden increase in demand over and above what is being generated by the alt will be met by the battery. This is against any load be it amplifiers, ICE, EPS, lighting systems etc. And NEVER disconnect the battery when the engine is running. You will fry nearly every single electrical/electronic item in your car. The batt acts like a buffer.
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Old 20th July 2010, 09:55   #868
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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
You can check out www.batteryfaq.org for pretty comprehensive information on all kinds of lead acid batteries.

I think the 2.5 year life is a rule of the thumb. Many batteries go well beyond that to 4+ years. ....Deep discharges quickly reduce life.
Thanks for the link. Loads of useful information
In agreement to the second point.


Now with that premise, coming back to the topic of Civic's OEM SF's mostly reported dying around 2.5 years to 3 years, can it be some of the following topics??

1) All similar rated batteries on Civic live only 2.5 to 3 years on normal stock cars in Indian environment and normal usage?
2) Is the vehicle loading the battery and is in strain all the while, resulting in premature death?
3) Will a higher AH rated battery live long in this scenario?
4) and other similar thoughts.
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Old 20th July 2010, 09:57   #869
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@R2D2: I broadly agree with you. The situation is that if the Alternator is churning our enough juice the load is handled by the alternator, otherwise the battery comes in. After the engine starts it is a 'buffer'.

The warranty + 1 is a generalisation, based on my 40+ years of driving experience. It includes and is the nett effect pf all the parameters you mention. What is most dangerous is deep discharge which dramatically affects the life of a battery if it happens repeatedly. This is why car batteries are not suited for Inverters.

I may add that one time Varta (in the UK) were selling a battery warranted for life of the car, later after about 4 years they cried off offering to replace the batteries and foresaking the life long stuff.
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Old 20th July 2010, 12:12   #870
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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
You can check out www.batteryfaq.org for pretty comprehensive information on all kinds of lead acid batteries.

And NEVER disconnect the battery when the engine is running. You will fry nearly every single electrical/electronic item in your car. The batt acts like a buffer.
Hmmm I said this (removing battery stuff) becasue in old times it was a normal practice in mahindra jeeps, running jeeps without battery (I myself have done this) may be in modern cars too much complex electricals are involved and a sudden increase in alt power can definitely blow anything.....
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