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Old 27th February 2013, 09:24   #286
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Default re: Hyundai Tucson - 138,000 kms done and front left axle replaced

Very useful post indeed. I am glad to note that we a place for repairing turbos in PUNE.

Could you also share the drive experience after the remap ?

Who did the remap ? Tune O tronics ?
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Old 1st March 2013, 09:50   #287
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Default re: Hyundai Tucson - 138,000 kms done and front left axle replaced

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Originally Posted by sagarpadaki View Post

Tell us more about the remap. About the process and how much you gained from it and also the damage to the wallet

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Originally Posted by F150 View Post
Very useful post indeed. I am glad to note that we a place for repairing turbos in PUNE.

Could you also share the drive experience after the remap ?

Who did the remap ? Tune O tronics ?

Guys,

Sorry for the delay in posting the feedback on remap - because of turbo repairs, I want it to settle down a bit. Also, we thoroughly cleaned the plumbing, intercooler and EGR valve. Cleaning the intercooler is a challenge as per Trident guys (though my SA says it's quite simple) and in my case, almost a liter of oil was found inside due to the previously leaking turbo. And they use caustic soda + water + some thinner, so I am not sure if all of that is purged out yet. So I am running the car in.

But to give you heads up on how it feels after remap - I have to steal Anoop's famous words: "What the xxxx was I driving for last 4 years!!!"

And regarding the logistics:
Anoop ("Digital Vampire" on this forum) did the remap. As he owns a Tucson himself and had remapped it (as well as Kash's Tucson) more than a year ago so I felt extra comfortable to go ahead with this. He works with an Austrian tuner. For costs, I think he will prefer to be contacted directly via PM as it may be different for different cars depending upon the engine, ECU vintage, effort and iterations required, etc.

I will follow up with details on how the remap was done, it was a fantastic experience for me.


Cheers!

Last edited by anandpadhye : 1st March 2013 at 09:51.
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Old 1st March 2013, 15:27   #288
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Default Re: Turbo refurbished - finally!

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Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
I got an additional feature as a compliment - I now hear a loud turbo whistle between 900 to 2200 RPM. It's like a police siren!!! You can listen to the attached wave file (recorded using a Nokia E63 placed in the bottle holder between the front seats) to get a feel :-)
I will follow up with pictures of the turbo repairs and some facts that I learnt along the way.
Cheers!
What was the Service Centre reaction to the Turbo whistle (Police siren).

The reason I ask is that the first time by Laura Turbo Failed it too has started Whistling (just like a Police Siren was my observation then as well) and then it failed quite soon after than.

There was a whistling sound when one of the turbo pipes has cracked 10,000 kms later and again when one of the turbo pipes had come loose from the clip.

So to me whistling sound seems to indicate Air being lost at some place. Pls do have it checked out again.

On another occation when I blew the Laura Turbo the second time it just would not climb the flyovers but there was also a faint whistle (not like a siren this time.)

In the Safari when the Turbo blew it too lost power completely.

In my case the compressor blades were completely bent. Had to replace the Turbo and Intercooler both in the Laura.

So am just suggesting a small recheck just in case.

Last edited by ACM : 1st March 2013 at 15:29.
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Old 1st March 2013, 15:41   #289
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Default Re: Turbo refurbished - finally!

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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
What was the Service Centre reaction to the Turbo whistle (Police siren).

The reason I ask is that the first time by Laura Turbo Failed it too has started Whistling (just like a Police Siren was my observation then as well) and then it failed quite soon after than.

There was a whistling sound when one of the turbo pipes has cracked 10,000 kms later and again when one of the turbo pipes had come loose from the clip.

Yes, I asked them - they say this is normal with refurbished turbos - though I have a doubt on that turbo -intercooler pipe that we have welded. It may be leaking, so I am going to ask them to order it and we will replace - just to be safe.

In my case it starts @900RPM and stops @2200 RPM. One interesting observation is - there is no whistle at idle (@800 RPM), but if engine becomes hot and radiator fan switches on, the whistle starts. I am guessing when the engine RPM may be bumped by ~100 RPM to account for the additional load of the fan and that gets the turbo going(?)...

BTW, in your case, did the whistle persist across the rev range? Why did you have to change the intercooler?

Last edited by anandpadhye : 1st March 2013 at 15:58.
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Old 1st March 2013, 18:37   #290
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Default re: Hyundai Tucson - 138,000 kms done and front left axle replaced

I had to take my Indigo to my trusted old mechanic and I played your "Turbo Song" for him to hear and comment. Here is what he said.
  • Bad rebuild (most likely)
  • Leaky waste gate or plumbing

He mentioned that he sends at least one turbo for rebuild each week and he has never faced any unreasonable whining on rebuilt turbos. He also mentioned that rebuilt turbos don't last long (30-40K max) due to tolerance issues.

This mechanic is a veteran and I trust his judgement from my past experiences that he was able to quickly diagnose many corner case issues which the ASC folks failed to detect for months together.

I think its time you revisit your Turbo Rebuild Shop and get the job done right. But before that please get the plumbing checked up.
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Old 1st March 2013, 18:54   #291
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Default re: Hyundai Tucson - 138,000 kms done and front left axle replaced

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Originally Posted by Digital Vampire View Post
  • Bad rebuild (most likely)
  • Leaky waste gate or plumbing
I will get the pipe and the hose changed first.


BTW, a colleague bought a new Rapid - I just came back from a short TD. It was decently quick off the block when you shift out of neutral into 1st, but that only lasts for a moment, then it's all dead in the first and second. Either it has a bad turbo lag or I am spoiled by the remap.

Cheers!
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Old 1st March 2013, 22:45   #292
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Default re: Hyundai Tucson - 138,000 kms done and front left axle replaced

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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
In my case the compressor blades were completely bent. Had to replace the Turbo and Intercooler both in the Laura.
Would like to know why the compressor blades got completely bent. Was the rotor touching the casing due to failed bearings? Also, after how many KMs did your two turbo failures on the Laura take place. Was any of the two failures covered under warranty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
BTW, a colleague bought a new Rapid - I just came back from a short TD. It was decently quick off the block when you shift out of neutral into 1st, but that only lasts for a moment, then it's all dead in the first and second. Either it has a bad turbo lag or I am spoiled by the remap.
Have you driven a XUV? If yes, how did you find the engine as compared to yours? Did you find any turbo lag?
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Old 1st March 2013, 22:59   #293
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Default re: Hyundai Tucson - 138,000 kms done and front left axle replaced

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Have you driven a XUV? If yes, how did you find the engine as compared to yours? Did you find any turbo lag?
I had taken a short TD when it was launched. I remember it was quite peppy, did not feel any noticeable turbo lag. At that time, I was driving the stock Tucson, it will be interesting to drive the XUV now.

BTW, how is the gear shift and the clutch on your XUV?
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Old 2nd March 2013, 00:05   #294
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Default re: Hyundai Tucson - 138,000 kms done and front left axle replaced

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
I had taken a short TD when it was launched. I remember it was quite peppy, did not feel any noticeable turbo lag. At that time, I was driving the stock Tucson, it will be interesting to drive the XUV now.

BTW, how is the gear shift and the clutch on your XUV?
Both gear shift and clutch are very smooth and trouble free in my XUV which I have driven about 10,000 KM. Initially, I faced some problem with engaging 2nd gear, especially while downshifting. Then a combination of two things sorted out this problem -- the first thing was the replacement (free under warranty) of gear shifter cables and the second was extensive use of 2nd gear during my drives to Kasauli, Nainital, Nathu La and North Sikkim (Lachung and Yumthang). As of now, I have no hesitation in calling my transmission 'butter smooth'. It is the best transmission I ever experienced (my ownership experience is limited to M-800, 118NE, Esteem and Swift).

As far as my clutch is concerned, I never faced any problems and it has exceeded my expectations so far.

I wanted to know about your XUV experience especially in comparison with your remapped Tucson experience.
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Old 2nd March 2013, 01:08   #295
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Default Re: Turbo refurbished - finally!

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Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
though I have a doubt on that turbo -intercooler pipe that we have welded. It may be leaking, so I am going to ask them to order it and we will replace - just to be safe.

In my case it starts @900RPM and stops @2200 RPM. One interesting observation is - there is no whistle at idle (@800 RPM), but if engine becomes hot and radiator fan switches on, the whistle starts. I am guessing when the engine RPM may be bumped by ~100 RPM to account for the additional load of the fan and that gets the turbo going(?)...

BTW, in your case, did the whistle persist across the rev range? Why did you have to change the intercooler?
I my case the whistle started at about 1200 or may be higher rpm and kept increasing till 3000 or so RPM. Beyond that I think it reduced but there was higher engine noise so not sure.

The guys could not figure out the exact cause of Turbo failure and hence the intercooler which is just 20% of the cost was also replaced to be safe.

DEDUBA
I was once within warranty and once out of warranty. The bearing were fine I think it was a clogged Intercooler or something. Don't remember but the guys were not really sure why it happend and they have multiple possible causes to give me.
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Old 2nd March 2013, 07:16   #296
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Default re: Hyundai Tucson - 138,000 kms done and front left axle replaced

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Originally Posted by debuda View Post

I wanted to know about your XUV experience especially in comparison with your remapped Tucson experience.
Yes, will look for an opportunity to drive an XUV now that I am used to the remap. But I am guessing the XUV engine is a very good one, it will match up and in fact may still beat the Tuc in top speed with it's 6'th gear. I am really interested to checkout the top end of the Tuc, waiting for the right opportunity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
I my case the whistle started at about 1200 or may be higher rpm and kept increasing till 3000 or so RPM. Beyond that I think it reduced but there was higher engine noise so not sure.

The guys could not figure out the exact cause of Turbo failure and hence the intercooler which is just 20% of the cost was also replaced to be safe.
In my case, the whistle stops at 2200 and the car still pulls strongly all the way to 4000+. But I am going to change the pipes anyways as a first step.

Did they change your intercooler everytime they changed the turbo? I am appalled at the "disinterested" attitude of Indian service centers, they just don't want to debug any issue. They just replace things.

In my case, I understand that a refurbished turbo may not perform as good as a new one and may not last long (my SA says, it will, but he doesn't have any data on cars that are driven hard, he is asking me to take it easy and I have been telling him that's not possible and that's the reason we repaired it in the firs place, any other user who is happy driving around at family speeds would not have found any fault with the slowly leaking turbo anyway as the leak was pronounced only at sustained high speed driving for hours!!!).

I sincerely feel it's worth a try. At least I now know some stuff around the turbo because of all this endeavor. And as my SA says: "Sir, aap ko paise udaane hi hain, to aap kabhi bhi uda sakte ho. Let's try this first" . ("If you want to blow your money, you can do it anytime, what's the rush?")

Sometimes I feel he is more reasonable than me :-)

Last edited by anandpadhye : 2nd March 2013 at 07:19.
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Old 2nd March 2013, 09:24   #297
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Default re: Hyundai Tucson - 138,000 kms done and front left axle replaced

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
Did they change your intercooler everytime they changed the turbo? I am appalled at the "disinterested" attitude of Indian service centers, they just don't want to debug any issue. They just replace things.

In my case, I understand that a refurbished turbo may not perform as good as a new one and may not last long (my SA says, it will, but he doesn't have any data on cars that are driven hard, he is asking me to take it easy and I have been telling him that's not possible and that's the reason we repaired it in the firs place, any other user who is happy driving around at family speeds would not have found any fault with the slowly leaking turbo anyway as the leak was pronounced only at sustained high speed driving for hours!!!).

Sometimes I feel he is more reasonable than me :-)
1st time in Laura changed Turbo and Intercooler.
2nd time in Laura changed Turbo (outside local garage + did not change the Intercooler - got it cleaned) - The Amber light in the dash took 2 days to go as the system was getting flushed in usage as well after a clean up at the garage- Don't remember exactly how it was done.

1st time in Safari TCIC - Turbo kit was used to repair the turbo at 120,000 kms
2nd time in Safari TCIC - Turbo kit was used to repair the turbo at 140,000 kms
3rd time in Safari TCIC - Turbo was replaced (not intercooler) was told that Tubro is now beyond repair.

By the way for Safari the same was true for the Power Steering (repaired twice and replaced the third time with a refurbished unit.)

Always of course Not at the ASS.
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Old 2nd March 2013, 09:44   #298
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Default re: Hyundai Tucson - 138,000 kms done and front left axle replaced

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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
2nd time in Laura changed Turbo (outside local garage + did not change the Intercooler - got it cleaned) - The Amber light in the dash took 2 days to go as the system was getting flushed in usage as well after a clean up at the garage- Don't remember exactly how it was done.
That's interesting. Which amber light was it? Check Engine light? Were you getting some smoke from exhaust during those two days and then it cleared up by itself?
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Old 2nd March 2013, 12:46   #299
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Default re: Hyundai Tucson - 138,000 kms done and front left axle replaced

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That's interesting. Which amber light was it? Check Engine light? Were you getting some smoke from exhaust during those two days and then it cleared up by itself?
Yep: Check Engine Light.

Yes there was Oil smoke from the exhaust in those 2 days and this oil burnt off an cleared by itself with the light going off.
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Old 4th March 2013, 13:35   #300
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Default re: Hyundai Tucson - 138,000 kms done and front left axle replaced

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Originally Posted by debuda View Post
I wanted to know about your XUV experience especially in comparison with your remapped Tucson experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
Yes, will look for an opportunity to drive an XUV now that I am used to the remap. But I am guessing the XUV engine is a very good one, it will match up and in fact may still beat the Tuc in top speed with it's 6'th gear. I am really interested to checkout the top end of the Tuc, waiting for the right opportunity.
Short Comparo: Stock XUV (W8) vs Remapped Tucson

Took a short spin in my friend's XUV last Saturday and I find it relatively lethargic in the 0-30 department post which it picks up momentum. XUV's engine is quite refined (in comparison to my car with a good amount of injector clatter) but the XUV motor lacks the low end grunt in spite of sporting a VGT - Even a stock Tucson with FGT gets off the block faster. Mahindra seems to be running a very very conservative map on the XUV and surprisingly it needed lots of A-Pedal inputs to make it move faster.

The gearbox in the XUV is a dampener and takes time to shift through gears or may be I need some getting used to. In the example I drove (some 12K odd kms on odo), I found the clutch to be really smooth but oddly sticky at times.

The true top speed of XUV (6 Speed) is reported to be 185 kmph which is more or less the same as the true GPS speed measured so far on my remapped Tucson (184 kmph to be precise). Both vehicles shows varying degrees of speedometer inaccuracies with the XUV's meter showing much higher speedometer error in comparison to the Tucson where the highest error measured was 8 kmph w.r.t True Speed (running 235/60/R16 tyres). I expect a Tucson running 215/65/R16 rubber (stock) to display slightly more speedometer error.

XUVs high speed dynamics are still nowhere a match to the well planted Tucson which more or less drives like a sedan. I have not driven the XUV at speeds but have sat shotgun in one at 170+ . One word - SCARY! and that's possibly the reason why XUV is hardly a competition in high speed highway runs (have come across only a handful of them driven really fast) even though the vehicle is capable of high speeds.

During my short TD of the XUV, I unwittingly got the tail kicked out two times trying to power through corners whereas Tucson's TCS and on-demand 4WD comes as a boon in such scenarios. With the amount of wheel spins I saw in XUV, it desperately needs TCS (Does it have one? XUV shows a switchable ESP) and if it already sports TCS, I'm sure it's running some slow granny algorithm which takes too much time to correct for wheel spins. I know it's unfair to compare a 2WD vehicle (XUV) with another vehicle with on-demand 4WD with TCS and an ideal comparison here would have been an AWD XUV, but I'm yet to even see one.

Barring an AWD XUV comparison, in short, Mahindra has a lot of catching up to do even with a 10+ year old design.

Last edited by Digital Vampire : 4th March 2013 at 14:01.
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