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View Poll Results: How's your Dicor 2.2VTT ownership been (see 1st post for explanation)
No Issues 25 26.32%
Minor Niggles 50 52.63%
Major Issues 10 10.53%
What a pain 10 10.53%
Voters: 95. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 17th March 2009, 15:25   #76
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Voted for no issues.

My truck is very new, only ~1month and ~1100 kms old. So far have done one long drive w/ family ~550 kms (to and fro), 20-30kms of absolutely no road in western ghats. Rest a mix of state and national highways.

No service light, hiccups so far. I had a few PDI issues like missing 4x4 decals, missing door stopper rubber etc. Some of these were attended by TML/Dealer immediately rest is being addressed in 1st service.

-BJ
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Old 17th March 2009, 20:43   #77
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Originally Posted by hkborah View Post
I am a newbie at T-BHP. I have bought 2 cars in my lifetime. Both have been Tata Safaris. I am about to replace my 2nd Safari (2004, 80000 Kms, 4X2 EX) for a 2.2 VTT, but after reading this thread I am actually contemplating whether I should.
I am not voting here, but wish to help you in making your decision. As someone rightly put it, buying this car is part head and mostly heart. You decide what is the weightage you wish to give to each. If you go with 100% head, I would recommend you not to buy this vehicle, or for that matter ant Tata product. The only part of head which agrees to a Safari purchase is 140 bhp, 320 Nm torque at 7.5 lakh rupees (Ex showroom) across all segments - Indian, Imported, Sedan, Petrol, Diesel. Add to it the comfort, the AC, the "cool" factor. None of my cars has had any problems with the engine. It is everywhere else that you have a problem with. 2.2 shares most of the everything with the old Tcic. Now how much these irritate you, you only are to decide.
You have decided on a used car. IMHO, if you wish to "rough-use" her, go for a used TcIc. If you are a someone with a major wanderlust, go for the Tcic. It is less sensitive to bad fuel, does not need overly qualified mechanics, shares parts with Sumo Turbo, Winger etc - anyone in a rural area will be able to fix it, atleast to the point of reaching the next big city. You should get a wonderful deal for under 3 lakhs, maybe 2 lakhs if you are lucky. Spend the rest of the money on fuel and doing her up. Do the extra 5-10 seconds to reach 100 kmph matter to you? Does the 10 kmph extra top speed matter enough? or the additional 2 - 3 kmpl. 2.2 VTT is HIGH RISK HIGH RETURN. If you are lucky, it possibly will not give you any trouble. But if it does, you are likely to be in a soup. Repairs are going to be more expensive. Much more expensive. TCiC, long as you avoid the TASS, you will not have major expenses. (I was asked to change my turbo when the pipe connecting the Engine and the Turbo was clogged. Got the pipe cleaned and saved atleast 39,000 rupees (40000 - 1000).
In short, decide what works for you, what is the basket of fruits you are looking for, and go for it.
Getting the 2.2 VTT brand new with a 2+2 year warranty is another thing.

~Hope I have managed to help
Now that is a really smart opinion. You have put it exactly like I wanted to say.
But I wish to add>
I too did contemplate buying a used 4x4 tcic for cheap, and even saw a few and drove a few. But nothing - nothing in that tcic engine can compare to a 2.2. It may share body design and others from the parts bin.
but the 4x4 ability of the 2.2 is unmatched by the tcic. The 3rd gear driveability and the power too are unmatched. Its not about reaching few seconds late/early.
The 2.2 is a new animal and it shows when you put it to the test. Whether you have the heart for it is a different matter. No offence- but most Safari users spend more than approx 95% of thier life on road and not off it.
The 2.2 needs to be taken off it if you really want to know what good suspension and comfort is all about.
Sure people do drive Altos too into the mountains and into the wilderness offroad, but prolonged use will not only bend the vehicle chassis but the human chassis.
I have always felt that the Safari was never designed as a street poser for the city. Its beauty is to be appreciated in the long haul and off the road.
It is also true that TML has miles to work on quality issues.
But like you have said, a Safari is a decision of the heart. Else, nothing beats the Innova and the Alto.
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Old 17th March 2009, 22:53   #78
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Hi HKBORAH,

sO WELL PUT ! AND its nice to hear non partisan perspectives from some body who has been using one ( rather 2 of the trucks ) . I myself was always impressed with the safari looks and prefered the stance and styling to other veihicles of similar size and rate.
Not too long back was impatient to buy a so called suv. Common sense prevailed and want to continue with INDIGO & ACCENT for maybe a year more.
Having driven both scorpio Mhawk , and Safari VTT recently has changed my outlook towards wanting to own a suv . In my opinion now , both cars are essentially eqaully flawed in terms of design and no amount of tweaking would cure the basic architectural flaw.
Both vehicles appear tough but i suspect are not really built that well. the cost cutting in safari does extend way beyond just the cheap plastics that everybody cribs about . Instead of constantly making superficial changes and now for once a better powerplant, TATA needs to start from scratch. What were the tata engineers were thinking when they fixed the turning radius. And the awkardly placed pedals. I feel a bowlegged gent designed the pedal positions to suit himself
The supension is not bad though and the seats are great if anything.
Another irritant is the jump sits cant sit 2 adults who are even remotely tall. Very tight space there and you ll continue to knock your head against the rear beam.
Take no offense fellow tata users cause i am one too.
But to flog a lame horse for almost a decade with only one significant upgrade ( the vtt powerplant ) and selling it for the same price as Innova.
I dont like the looks of innova but its a nearly perfect machine otherwise and every bit worth it. Very tight.
Scorpio on the other hand needs to be credited for upgrading powerpants which were already very good. But its lack of space, almost bench like seats and overassisted steering. And the roll.....
It felt much better built though and the short turning radius and good pickup means its much easier to drive than the safari.
It seems to be better as far as reliabilty is concerned and cost of spares is reasonable than the tata juggernaut.
Tata cars report such ridiculous problems during early ownership which have no business being there. Have owned an diesle indica and a petrol indigo
another hilarious thing i heard from my friend about being one of the things that helped him decide on safari over other vehicles of similar proportions is that innovas , taveras and scorpios and qualis are being used by taxi and fleet operators and dont offer the image / status or whatever safari offers.
The very reason is why these vehicles are being used as people movers is because they offer more reliability and enduring performance , better fuel effeciency and surely more seating capacity . In short better value..
One reason i might ever get tempted to buy a safari is for its drop dead looks. Sadly its only looks. What great vehicle it would been if the rest was half as good as its lines. the 2.2 should 've been what they should have started out with. I hope they end the safari story with the 2.2 vtt and come out with a all new worthy SUV having both looks and the substance...
Once again all this is my observation and my opinion. Dont wish no offense to nobody with opinion otherwise.
And buddy like your idea of buying a well kept TCIC for around 3 or below.
Cuts down your losses in case of a dissapointment. Makes one prepared for the problems or the joys associated with owning a big truck. Leaves you more than enough money upfront to negate any losses owing to lower FE. Practically the same machine minus the new powerplant. So seating comfort , suspension is same if i am not mistaken. If you fALL in love with it , you can always upgrade or continue with it.
If you fall out then disposing it would not mean you get hit big time.
That is the beauty of the forum. It gives you different perspectives and help you take the right decisions during and before ownership of a vehicle.
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Old 18th March 2009, 10:24   #79
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This is how i got hooked onto the Safari and my experience so far:-

I do not have a history of owning TATA vehicles in the past. Till date i have owned the Maruti 800, the Zen, the Accent and the Ikon all of which have been very predictable and reliable machines. I had owned Sedans all this while but needed a different vehicle this time as i had the need for extra and comfortable seating with a growing family and frequent out station guests visiting us.
I could very well have settled for the Innova but somehow whenever i imagined myself driving that vehicle the one thing that managed to creep in to the picture i imagined was the chauffer's hat on my head. I did not evaluate or consider the Endeavor or other vehicles in the bracket as they were way outside my budget.

Moral of the story though all in theory felt right somehow the heart didn't concur. One small flashback here is that some 5 yrs back when i was looking out for a vehicle my heart was hooked to the Optra. But looking at the money aspect and various other factors (like a very juicy discount being offered on the Ikon and also that i did not want to buy the Accent yet again as it was the only other option i had), i settled on the Ikon. Though i think the ikon is a very very good car and has never once given any issues over the years, somehow i could not stop myself from drooling every time i saw an Optra pass by.

I asked myself if i want to go the next 5 yrs brooding over a decision that was not backed by the heart or for once to listen to the voice within me asking me to take the plunge. Weighing the 2 options i took the plunge and told myself that the worst that can happen is that i stand to lose money over a bad decision. I was fine losing money rather than the vision of me ogling at other people's vehicles and cursing myself for the near future.

Looking back at my 1.3 yrs of ownership and the roads and terrain i have subjected the vehicle to all i can say is that there has been no remote iota of remorse whatsoever. Infact everyday i am pleased with myself for buying this vehicle. Though there have been minor quality related issues and one major breakdown which was due to bad QC at the service centre, i am not irritated because for more than 99.99% of my time with this vehicle i have been happy and also i know i paid half of what other SUV's with similar capability cost. Hence i think it has been more than a fair trade so far.

Moreover having owned Maruti, Hyundai, Ford in the past, one thing i can say is that the After sales service of this vehicle is unparalleled not in terms of quality but the utter lack of fuss in rectifying/changing things under warranty, in proactively attending to issues and listening patiently to my most minute of quirks and fixing those to my satisfaction. None of the other 3 manufacturers come anywhere close to TATA in my experience on this front (atleast from a Safari owner's perspective; don't know how the Indica/Indigo owners feel about this).

So to sum it up, i too feel like most others that there is more to the desired from TATA on the Quality front, but on the whole it has been a pleasent expereince so far and hope it remains on the same track for the time to come.
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Old 20th March 2009, 20:48   #80
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Originally Posted by zenx View Post
@KVS : Noticed your love for the Safari. But I think you have an Indica, unless I missed something.

Zenx - I voted for minor niggles. I own a Safari 2.2 (VX 4X4) and Indica also. My feedback is here. Hope this helps you in your decision
  • It is is been 4 months since I got my Safari, I drove close to 4.5K. I am in love with it.
  • I had to pay visits the dealer to get the minor niggles fixed, till my satisfaction. It was completely a heart decision and I was prepared for the niggles and to get them fixed. It took close to two months to solve all the minor niggles.
  • Minor issues are related to electrical components, wiring.
  • No issues with the services received till now. All my visits are well attended and kept me informing the progress on the issues.
  • For the last two months absolutely no problems. It is fun to drive.
  • I get a mileage between 11.5 to 13. Depending on the traffic conditions and highway drive.
  • My family (Parent, kids and wife) thoroughly enjoy the long drives we had. Especially parents, they did not get tired at all. They use to get very tired in my indica.
As every one mentioned it is heart decision, vehicle wise, it is a sturdy and safe vehicle (with ABS and airbags) to drive.

If you have any queries, please PM me to discuss..

Cheers

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Old 23rd March 2009, 13:15   #81
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Hi Friends,

Hemant again. This is more like an addition/clarification/disclaimer etc to my previous post.

My advise on purchase of a used Tcic to zenx was considering the situation he was in. I would not have recommended it to someone else in a different situation. He already has an OHC (fast car). The combined utility of an OHC and a Tcic safari is what I felt was higher than that of a 2.2 VTT.

I personally do not wish to do 120+ (on a Safari). It's not the smartest thing with that kind of body roll. If I want to go much faster, there is a Honda City ZX and a Petrol Marina waiting to be whipped. I think zenx too is in a similar situation. I want to do 100 in a safari but irrespective of the kind of roads, and in ample confort, with decent economy. Safari VTT is about having a great racer-cruiser combo in a single package.

Look at it from a cost perspective. Zenx sells his OHC (residual 2 lac).And buys a new Safari VTT (LX) for 8. Damages to his wallet are at least 5 lakhs. Actually it will be more as he will have to spend on ICE, seats, cosmetics etc. But he gets those same benefits at about 2.5 - 3 lakh rupees less, best of both worlds. Effectively, more bang for the buck. From a high flying banker to a struggling entrepreneur, I "now" know the value of money in the bank account.

Look at it from a risk perspective. (God Forbid)
1.One car at the garage for servicing.
2. One car gets stolen (My first Safari that I bought 3 hours before my first salary got stolen).
3. One car meeting in an accident.
4. Heartbreak at the first scratch in a new car.
5. Anything else we can colelctively think of.

I do not dispute the superiorirty of a 2.2 VTT (engine) over a Tcic. A new generation common rail diesel cannot be compared to an indirect injection with a tiny turbocharger of early 90's vintage. I would be stupid to even attempt to do so. But then. the same solution cannot be offered to everyone, right?

PS: I will be requiring the services of a driver very soon. How ever am I going to give the keys of a brand new 2.2 VTT to one of the maniac breed? I will still suffer heartburn giving him the keys to my Tcic, albeith lesser.
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Old 23rd March 2009, 14:25   #82
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I voted as Minor problems / Niggles.

My decision to buy the Safari was more heart than head. I've drooled over the TCIC, the 3.0Dicor for more than 7yrs before I bought my 2.2.

I bought it with the expectation that I will be visiting the service center often, but the experience has been otherwise.

I've driven my 2.2 Dicor for more than 25000 kms till date in 1.5yrs. We've gone on 1000kms drives, without any hassles. Continuous 12 hr drives also dont pose any problems.

Issues faced:

- Minor squeaks and rattles which I was expecting, so nothing new.
- Damper Pulley replacement as part of recall - No direct impact to my daily driving, was done proactively.
- AC fuse blew at around 18000kms. replaced with spare and doing fine.
- Injectors replaced at 25690 kms due to the 80kms-service light test showing up! Again, no impact to daily drives or highway cruising. Identified and fixed proactively.

Positives:
- Excellent attitude of the Service Center and the Customer Service dept. of TML. Have been very proactive in listening to and fixing any complaints.
- VFM at the price point.
- Good Dealer network across the southern states.

Wish List:
- Better quality of fit and finish.
- Better interiors - plastics, gaps.
- Re-designed center console.
- A pop-up screen ontop of the dash for Video/ReverseCam/GPS


cheers!
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Old 23rd March 2009, 14:28   #83
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Hemant, thats a pretty good argument you've made! Yeah, if the City is around the Safari will be strictly a highway vehicle (though a little underpowered and at 9kmpl tops, not too efficient). The part about peacefully handing it over to a driver if its a TCIC is also valid.

Only, its pretty tough getting an old TCIC which is in decent shape, reliable and will not keep going to TASS. A lot many have been used for lakhs of kms, and have seen a fair bit of abuse.
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Old 23rd March 2009, 14:47   #84
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My safari 2.2 = no issues

its exactly 1 yr old now and completed 15k kms. Apart from two 20A fuses that i have replaced, the 2.2 has no issues till date.
I get 11.5 kms consistantly in city with AC on.
Absolutely love the ride quality - 2.2 has great suspension and that gives it a super smooth ride quality which can be expected in vehicles twice its price.
The engine is very powerful and that makes the drive so effortless. On the highways it makes the distance seem nothing.

Last edited by chaxy : 23rd March 2009 at 14:54.
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Old 23rd March 2009, 23:02   #85
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I voted for no issues.

During the past year / 15000 Kms, I had one blown fuse, - AC . Middle row and Jump seats rattling, Tail gate misaligned causing scratch mark on rear bumper.

One headlight assembly replaced due to fogging, Wind shield wiper wash bottle replaced both under warranty.

Steering idler arm had to be adjusted, but now seems to be ok, gives no sound whatsoever, but I grease it every now and then (I have a grease gun at home)

My safari is yet to give me a serious trouble, but I would say that she needs a lot of attention unlike my other cars, which go to the service centers only for their periodic services.

All these havenít blunted my love for the safari.
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Old 24th March 2009, 07:46   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenx View Post
...Yeah, if the City is around the Safari will be strictly a highway vehicle (though a little underpowered and at 9kmpl tops, not too efficient)...
Zenx,

City drinks Petrol.
Safari drinks Diesel.

I am sure that the 9kmpl on the Safari + the comfort it offers on the long drive will certainly offset the others by a long mile.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaxy View Post
...its exactly 1 yr old now and completed 15k kms...
Time sure flies, Chaxy! Recollect reading you buying experience.

And go and update your profile; still have Bolero. (Hard to part with your old love, eh? )
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Old 24th March 2009, 09:28   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenx View Post
if the City is around the Safari will be strictly a highway vehicle (though a little underpowered and at 9kmpl tops, not too efficient). The part about peacefully handing it over to a driver if its a TCIC is also valid.
Zenx our vehicle gives 11kms in City & 13kms in Highway
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Old 24th March 2009, 09:30   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gowda79 View Post
Zenx our vehicle gives 11kms in City & 13kms in Highway
Yep - thats one of the reasons I've been looking for the 2.2, and not the earlier avatars!
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Old 24th March 2009, 10:05   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sun View Post
I voted for no issues.

During the past year / 15000 Kms, I had one blown fuse, - AC . Middle row and Jump seats rattling, Tail gate misaligned causing scratch mark on rear bumper.

One headlight assembly replaced due to fogging, Wind shield wiper wash bottle replaced both under warranty.

Steering idler arm had to be adjusted, but now seems to be ok, ...
Sun, are you redefining the term "no issues"?
You've listed half a dozen little niggles but opted to call them no issues!

LOL, you can STILL love your car even though it has minor issues.

Last edited by anupmathur : 24th March 2009 at 10:07.
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Old 24th March 2009, 11:40   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Sun, are you redefining the term "no issues"?
You've listed half a dozen little niggles but opted to call them no issues!

LOL, you can STILL love your car even though it has minor issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun
All these havenít blunted my love for the safari.
Anupji that's Love for the Safari. there is nothing to laugh on this we love our vehicle and i hope even you love yours with small or big niggles.
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