Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Team-BHP Reviews > Long-Term Ownership Reviews


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 14th March 2009, 16:36   #16
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NH209
Posts: 1,607
Thanked: 701 Times
Default the bolero @20k kms

The bolero is essentially a modded Marshal, with IFS.

On paper the length is 4m exact, but managing it is on the same level as a scorpio or a sumo. I find the sumo still better to drive(personal opinion).

Anything above 50 kmph, and cornering is scary. Ride is not in the territory of comfy. Rear suspension works only when a dead weight of 70 kg is added. Tyres need to be upgraded to 235 width.

The engine is a milestone of the evolution of diesel technology. The 'shakes' at the early RPMs, the vibrations fed to the chassis at mid-rpm, and finally the turbo-areas where it is acceptable to both the driver and the passengers. The car is in critical siesmic zone when the engine is switched off. Even my fiat 137D is better.

Ok, the road manners are moderate. Let me try off-road, at my farm road. Even here, it shakes and quakes more than what is necessary. The 137D is better here too.

The speedometer arises suspicion. I dont think i am travelling the speed indicated in the needle. Also, it is very funny to watch the ORVM, RVM and the front bullbar oscillate out of phase with each other.

The only reason to smile when owning a bolero is the service bill and the spares price. Also, one need not flirt with the so called "authorised" service centres, you can visit any garage where a jeep is serviced.

The bolero is not a SUV. It is a proper jeep. Beware of obfuscating marketing tactics and words of mouth.

(PS: Maybe i am spoilt by Palio and ikon's manners. But i find the sumo better planted on road)
Attached Thumbnails
My Used Cars Saga-100_0566.jpg  

ramzsys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2009, 11:17   #17
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: goa
Posts: 981
Thanked: 43 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramzsys View Post
The engine is a milestone of the evolution of diesel technology. The 'shakes' at the early RPMs, the vibrations fed to the chassis at mid-rpm, and finally the turbo-areas where it is acceptable to both the driver and the passengers. The car is in critical siesmic zone when the engine is switched off.
..... Also, it is very funny to watch the ORVM, RVM and the front bullbar oscillate out of phase with each other.
You sir, are a gifted comic. I am still quietly shaking with laughter at your descriptions and metaphors. Give me more!
filcord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2009, 18:52   #18
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NH209
Posts: 1,607
Thanked: 701 Times
Default

update:

I am getting a FE of 16.66 kmpl, 80-100kmph speeds, average load, non-a/c conditions. Now, that is what i call frugality(rather than what autocar boasts about the AN/NHCs.

The safety of all the passengers is assured, for the ride is a bit bouncy that every passenger rushes for their seat belts.

After seeing M&M charging labour=spares, i changed to my Honourable Local garage.

A bit of sporty driving is equally scary to the driver and the motor men on road!

A bit sceptical here:

On 2 laned roads, these modern cars try to make a quick overtake, assuming that "anyone" coming in the opposite lane will yield to his power/handling tactics. Co-incidentally, my bolero has the bull-bar set at a height at the same of the ORVMs of these low-slung cars, and it is me everytime doing sudden manoeuvres to avoid a hit.

This UV enjoys the best depreciation in the used car market -a la marutis.
ramzsys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2009, 19:02   #19
Senior - BHPian
 
n_aditya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Namma Bengaluru
Posts: 5,206
Thanked: 2,747 Times
Default

Ram, that was a wonderful narration. Nice to see your enthusiasm. Have fun with your ride and drive safe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pradkumar View Post
If oil is sprayed out when the engine is running after taking out the dipstick, for diesel Indicas (at least), it means that the piston rings have gone weak. It is a 40k+ job at an authorized service centre (TASS). Can be done for 25k odd at a smaller workshop.

The other standard test for resale cars is running it 3-4 times in circles clockwise and then anticlockwise.
Does this dipstick test apply only to diesel car's? How would one do a self check similarly in a petrol car?

Also, could you please explain why it is required to run the car in circles?
n_aditya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2009, 19:15   #20
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NH209
Posts: 1,607
Thanked: 701 Times
Default

On Front wheel drive cars, the driveshafts(pair) wear out after some time. So, to check this you drive with the steering at full lock(both sides) and release the clutch suddenly-any abnormal noise indicates worn out Driveshafts.

This is also the reason why buying a used car from dealers is not advisable, as you may not know how many times had this test been done(abuse) on a trial.
ramzsys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2009, 19:56   #21
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NH209
Posts: 1,607
Thanked: 701 Times
Default

Update 2:

The ford ikon 1.8D.

The odo crossed 1.5Lakh, in a recent jaunt to tirupathi. Time and again, the ride handling and road manners of the shell are marveling. At 140 speeds, the car felt like being glued to the road-there was no flying-low feel at all.

Even after 1.5L km, the engine revved to the top speed, and the idling sound just like new(unlike the palio 1.9D which makes a racket).

The FE was 15.xx, speeds 120 and occasional 140s. I never mind paying for the ford Service.
ramzsys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2009, 10:41   #22
Senior - BHPian
 
pramodkumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Gods own country
Posts: 1,993
Thanked: 857 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by n_aditya View Post
Does this dipstick test apply only to diesel car's? How would one do a self check similarly in a petrol car?

Basically by dipstick test you can check engines backward compression, its not necessary that a bad engine will spit oil through the dipstick hole. just place ur palm over the hole when the engine is running(idleing) and if u feel air is coming out of the hole, it means the piston rings need attention. This is not a major problem in engines, as these can be replaced in 3000-4000 Rs region however, its adviseble to stay away from cars of this nature as you never know what else is in store, yes this test works for both petrol and diesel cars.
pramodkumar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27th July 2009, 19:26   #23
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NH209
Posts: 1,607
Thanked: 701 Times
Default

The (really) long term car maintenance thread:

Engine:

1) Carbon-deposit:
A thorough decarbonization will leave you with an almost new engine-both looks and performance, but within another 5k kms, half of them will come back.

Best done when there is a major engine work or when there is a significant drop of power in a 2L km run engine.

This is labour-intensive activity and time-consuming.

2) Piston rings:
Worn piston rings increases engine oil consumption by way of oil getting into combustion chamber, and hence a smoky exhaust. In some cases the oil is sprayed from the dip-stick hole, by way of backpressure.

3) timing belt:
Rubber components wear with time and due to engine heat. Though there is a specific mileage between changes, an inspection-job will help avoid a fortuity. This involves changing bearing, adjusters/pre-tensioners etc. One can expect a bill of 10k-15k for this, including labour. Any incompetent work will snap the belt within a few hundred kms. If timing belt snaps when engine is running, besides panic stop there are engine internal accidents by way of piston hitting the valves. The authorized service stations will virtually strip you when this happens; hence proper attention is warranted periodically for this part.

Inspection is difficult, for now all cars have covers, and hence servicemen will usually dodge on this.

4) oil-seals etc..:

These micro-issues are usually done when the engine is opened up, hence if you have a leaking engine, there is no other way other than keeping a litre of oil in the car. This work is also-labour intensive.

The pulley conditions are also to be inspected, or else it will eat the belt soon.

The only unexpected work from the engine is the gasket. This is identified from the radiator water(coolant) reflecting light a bit more than at normal times(oil mixing).
A workshop fellow told me that it is ok to drive(albeit to the workshop) with this problem(?)

Excessive vibration (at the time of the initial moving/at idling) indicates a worn out engine mounts. Replace them with hydraulic mounts if possible.

The fuel return tubes (from the injectors) need to be replaced if any cracks are seen.

Gearbox:

Any unusual noise (other than clutch sound) or problem in shifting will need the opening of the gearbox. Generally, this part of the car is the most reliable one.
In RWD cars, differential oil needs replacement. Some service centres won’t change it until they see a leak or hear a noise.


Electricals:

The alternator and the self-start motor need to be overhauled once a while to ensure their reliability. Some cars with constant AC/woofer-friendly ICE/6 headlamp usage, the coils become weak over time and hence a new alternator will be needed.

Also, check for rat-gnawed wires; cars that have them are anytime inflammable.

The headlight bulbs when upgraded to the 90/100s or even 100/130s will demand more Amperes from the system slow-heating of the stock thin wire; hence replacing the wires completely during the upgrade job is advised.

Suspension:

There is no time frame to do a suspension overhaul/replacement. It depends upon

1) Body-shell lightness/heaviness (japanese/europeon)
2) Usage condition (weight).
3) Driving style (hard braking).

Lighter shells have fewer loads on the suspension; hence usually Suzuki cars need only an overhaul.

The sagging car/springing car or any unusual noise over road imperfections (not the thud-thud but krr krr) demands immediate attention.

The drive shafts also to be checked, by keeping the steering at full lock (both sides) position and flooring the acc., listen for any abnormal noise (as something breaking under weight).

Generally, before doing a suspension work, take a reading of wheel alignment and proceed from that. In suspension work, most replacements will be needed in pairs, even if the other part is perfect.

Rims:
Wheel rims need to be balanced (by mechanically first, then by weight). This job can be done with suspension work to save on time and labour.

Fuel line:
Perhaps the most ignored work. The tank needs to be removed and cleaned. Any rubber part will need replacement. Also, check for any overflow tube blocks. Dirty fuel will do more damage for the pump than the engine. CRDe engines are more prone to this problem.



buying used:
In my personal opinion, I would go buy any tata indi ca/go Tdi/Dicors, in any condition, rather than foreign diesels. Even roadside workshops are now thorough with the indi ca/gos, and in that way I will have a reliable used car.

(PERSONAL OBSERVATION BY SITTING IN A COMPETENT GARAGE)
ramzsys is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2009, 23:11   #24
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ernakulam
Posts: 64
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Excellent thread. And the above post was really helpful for someone like me whos looking to get a used car. Thank you sir
prasanth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th July 2009, 13:43   #25
BHPian
 
AirWind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 809
Thanked: 76 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramzsys View Post
Can I alter the diesel filter for the palio D? Anyrepercussions?
Even though a DI, i was told the Palio D's engine is sensitive to adulteration (water), so the filter was designed better than the Uno/Siena 1.7D's and can trap that water/moisture to give you a long engine life. IMO, dont skimp but spend that extra.

Forget TVS, why not try the BOSCH authorized service center? I think he is located next to the brooke bond - MTP road - ram nagar rly bridge.

Last edited by AirWind : 30th July 2009 at 13:51.
AirWind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st July 2009, 09:54   #26
Senior - BHPian
 
Ramsagar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Bangalore-Nellore
Posts: 1,328
Thanked: 41 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
Basically by dipstick test you can check engines backward compression, its not necessary that a bad engine will spit oil through the dipstick hole. just place ur palm over the hole when the engine is running(idleing) and if u feel air is coming out of the hole, it means the piston rings need attention. This is not a major problem in engines, as these can be replaced in 3000-4000 Rs region however, its adviseble to stay away from cars of this nature as you never know what else is in store, yes this test works for both petrol and diesel cars.
pramod:This is very useful for a purchasing a used car,since i'm on look out.
Can you pls add other mechanical tip for identifying a good car?

Mods pls let me know if is any link to mechanical identify a used car.
my search had failed

Last edited by Ramsagar : 31st July 2009 at 09:55.
Ramsagar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st July 2009, 11:31   #27
ACM
Distinguished - BHPian
 
ACM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 4,156
Thanked: 2,461 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramzsys View Post
The (really) long term car maintenance thread:

Engine:

1) Carbon-deposit:
A thorough decarbonization will leave you with an almost new engine-both looks and performance, but within another 5k kms, half of them will come back.

Best done when there is a major engine work or when there is a significant drop of power in a 2L km run engine.

This is labour-intensive activity and time-consuming.

2) Piston rings:
Worn piston rings increases engine oil consumption by way of oil getting into combustion chamber, and hence a smoky exhaust. In some cases the oil is sprayed from the dip-stick hole, by way of backpressure.

3) timing belt:
Rubber components wear with time and due to engine heat. Though there is a specific mileage between changes, an inspection-job will help avoid a fortuity. This involves changing bearing, adjusters/pre-tensioners etc. One can expect a bill of 10k-15k for this, including labour. Any incompetent work will snap the belt within a few hundred kms. If timing belt snaps when engine is running, besides panic stop there are engine internal accidents by way of piston hitting the valves. The authorized service stations will virtually strip you when this happens; hence proper attention is warranted periodically for this part.

Inspection is difficult, for now all cars have covers, and hence servicemen will usually dodge on this.

4) oil-seals etc..:

These micro-issues are usually done when the engine is opened up, hence if you have a leaking engine, there is no other way other than keeping a litre of oil in the car. This work is also-labour intensive.

The pulley conditions are also to be inspected, or else it will eat the belt soon.

The only unexpected work from the engine is the gasket. This is identified from the radiator water(coolant) reflecting light a bit more than at normal times(oil mixing).
A workshop fellow told me that it is ok to drive(albeit to the workshop) with this problem(?)

Excessive vibration (at the time of the initial moving/at idling) indicates a worn out engine mounts. Replace them with hydraulic mounts if possible.

The fuel return tubes (from the injectors) need to be replaced if any cracks are seen.

Gearbox:

Any unusual noise (other than clutch sound) or problem in shifting will need the opening of the gearbox. Generally, this part of the car is the most reliable one.
In RWD cars, differential oil needs replacement. Some service centres won’t change it until they see a leak or hear a noise.


Electricals:

The alternator and the self-start motor need to be overhauled once a while to ensure their reliability. Some cars with constant AC/woofer-friendly ICE/6 headlamp usage, the coils become weak over time and hence a new alternator will be needed.

Also, check for rat-gnawed wires; cars that have them are anytime inflammable.

The headlight bulbs when upgraded to the 90/100s or even 100/130s will demand more Amperes from the system slow-heating of the stock thin wire; hence replacing the wires completely during the upgrade job is advised.

Suspension:

There is no time frame to do a suspension overhaul/replacement. It depends upon

1) Body-shell lightness/heaviness (japanese/europeon)
2) Usage condition (weight).
3) Driving style (hard braking).

Lighter shells have fewer loads on the suspension; hence usually Suzuki cars need only an overhaul.

The sagging car/springing car or any unusual noise over road imperfections (not the thud-thud but krr krr) demands immediate attention.

The drive shafts also to be checked, by keeping the steering at full lock (both sides) position and flooring the acc., listen for any abnormal noise (as something breaking under weight).

Generally, before doing a suspension work, take a reading of wheel alignment and proceed from that. In suspension work, most replacements will be needed in pairs, even if the other part is perfect.

Rims:
Wheel rims need to be balanced (by mechanically first, then by weight). This job can be done with suspension work to save on time and labour.

Fuel line:
Perhaps the most ignored work. The tank needs to be removed and cleaned. Any rubber part will need replacement. Also, check for any overflow tube blocks. Dirty fuel will do more damage for the pump than the engine. CRDe engines are more prone to this problem.



buying used:
In my personal opinion, I would go buy any tata indi ca/go Tdi/Dicors, in any condition, rather than foreign diesels. Even roadside workshops are now thorough with the indi ca/gos, and in that way I will have a reliable used car.

(PERSONAL OBSERVATION BY SITTING IN A COMPETENT GARAGE)
Super post. am copying the entire post in my reply back so that it does not get lost on the thread. The points depict all that I have been through myself as well. In addtion the AC / compressor clutch, belts and pulleys, plus the wheel bearings are some other aspects that could have been touched upon. The Observations actually deserve to be either on a seperate post or on another thread. Mod pls see if that is possible.
ACM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st July 2009, 18:15   #28
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NH209
Posts: 1,607
Thanked: 701 Times
Default

The wheel bearings need attention at every suspension work, or when you hear a mild drone from their side.

The engine doctor says not to use ac in engines over lakh kms..better for the engine to age gracefully.



Quote:
Originally Posted by AirWind View Post
Even though a DI, i was told the Palio D's engine is sensitive to adulteration (water), so the filter was designed better than the Uno/Siena 1.7D's and can trap that water/moisture to give you a long engine life. IMO, dont skimp but spend that extra.

Forget TVS, why not try the BOSCH authorized service center? I think he is located next to the brooke bond - MTP road - ram nagar rly bridge.

The palio D is sold, but thanks, i could now understand the price for it. It also had a 'water in fuel' sensor, which blinks after every water service.

The car had a heavy engine oil leak(AFAIK-the previous owner is to blame), power steering oil loss etc. So sold out.

BOSCH authorised centre is autozone, and they are hands full with imported cars(rather SUVs). So, you get delays. But they are better than TASS.

TVS are better, as their mechanics knew all about palios(they were the fiat dealers).
ramzsys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2010, 22:56   #29
BHPian
 
Delta Wing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 228
Thanked: 112 Times
Default

When the 'geezer' (LoL) in the first post of this thread opened the beading of the door frame linings, he was checking for weldings other than factory machine welds (hand welds are prominent as a scar , factory welds are like a punching machine) which shows bent frame in accident. The pillar welds show accidental impact (if not smooth and lacking original lines of flow with blotchy welding rather smooth bands like insulating tape).
Delta Wing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th February 2010, 14:25   #30
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NH209
Posts: 1,607
Thanked: 701 Times
Default

The Bolero was sold for 4.50 lakhs.
  • A reliable yet not so inspiring ownership experience.
  • Good for go anywhere capability, a jeep which is uncomfortable than most cars on road and vice-versa in the given budget.
  • Not comfortable for long drives-top speed of 100-110 kmph.
  • Very bouncy ride even when loaded with three persons.
  • Annoying vibration at particular rpm-have to keep the engine always in turbo zone for a smoother rev.
  • Excellent mileage when driven with a lighter foot- consistent 15-16 kmpl.
  • Ease of practical Indian driving- one only has to brake to get back your space in the road.
So what next?

Went to scout for used cars in coimbatore, just for a timepass. Drove a palio and two Unos.

Palio -2004, 1.9 ELX. Has run 80k kms.

'saar....one owner vehicle saar.. high capacity engine sir.. mileage 20 km plus.... powerful AC saar..'

Started the car, engine alive in a second or two. Engine was smooth running- for a car of this mileage. But there was timing belt 'kich-kich' sound. When asked the dealer blurted, oh saar car was not used for some time, so this belt sound saar... then he poured water over the belt area and sound disappeared. Then he proclaimed that no timing belt change will be necessary.

Body has minor paint scratches all around. Front suspension was sagging a bit. Ride quality was immaculate as usual for this car. Engine torque still felt like a new car. As someone here used to say, there is no alternative to displacement.

While taking a trial, this annoying dealer was pestering to blast the DVD and the &*@$* branded LCD screen. Then he asked me to use the AC. He himself did it, and kept the blower at full speed. Brake bite was all of a sudden from free flow. Pads needed to be changed.

Nevertheless, the engine was fine- no bearing noise or engine oil dripping issues.

Then the dealer came with the usual tactics. 2.5 lakhs asked by the owner. And even yesterday offer came until 2.1L, to which the owner promptly refused. I started with 1.75L. He showed all type of faces at me. Nice try. Then he tried to show more impatience to make us fall in.

Had my unofficial financier with whom i went for the car held his FIAT passion a little, it would have been a deal. But he became impatient and suddenly blurted out 2.0L.

Then the dealer told that all papers were 'ready' and by afternoon the deal can be finalised. I asked him to replace the bald rear and spare tires also the half broken rear taillight, for which he negotiated the cheap useless LCD screen and the ICE. I promptly refused.

Decided to wait for a 2005-06 year Palio Ds.

In the meanwhile some other dealer called us to show two diesel UNOs 'asked' around 1 Lakh or so. Both the cars were in near scrap condition, but their engines were a gem which still sounded anew even with 1L km in the odo. One of the uno had the power steering assembly fiddled with. There were oil leaks from the pump area.

Opening up the hood and checking for oil leaks is the most essential check up for an engine. But some dealers do a perfect job here too, hence a long trial is necessary to find out some hidden truths.

It is really necessary to try to move keeping the steering in full locks- any tightness or noise indicates trouble from the powersteering unit. Repairing a powersteering pump is not advisable, and replacing will cost near 25 grand.

The dealer also had a flawless ford ikon 1.8D. But we already own one.

Had my unofficial financier kept his FIAT enthusiasm down, palio would have been done. Meanwhile, the 137D and ford will suffice for now.

Last edited by ramzsys : 20th February 2010 at 14:38.
ramzsys is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My DIY Beetle Restoration Saga 71Convertible Post-War 100 5th December 2016 21:24
Milk Spill Woes- a tragic saga ascertain Shifting gears 43 3rd May 2009 11:10
The SAGA of Low_Bass_Makker low_bass_makker In-Car Entertainment 1400 5th January 2009 01:32
Saga Of Palio 1.6 Breakdown eclectix 1st Long-Term Ownership Reviews 151 27th May 2008 11:36


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 15:49.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks