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Old 11th November 2009, 08:31   #91
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@adc : is it possible to post some closely shot snaps of these metal shavings found in the engine sump.
This is possible if the car is very new and such type of metal shavings damage the engine.This can happen if the engine block is not properly washed under pressure before installation of engine components in the engine plant.

Since your car has already done 35k kms with so many oil changes this possibility is simply ruled out.

Definitely two metal parts have rubbed against each other inside the engine(if it is not sabotage) to result in these metal shavings.I have seen a case where the oil pump inner rotor has rubbed against the outer cage causing its failure and lots of shiny metal powders in the engine oil.

If you post the snaps of these metal shavings possibly our Guru's might be able to come to a conclusion.

Shantanu



"Only on seeing metal shavings in the oil sump cover did they go ahead with opening the engine. At that particular time when opened the sump, could clearly see the shavings, small and curled up like shavings."
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Old 11th November 2009, 09:46   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
@ADC

Before they take apart your engine, kindly ask them to check all sensors first including the oil pressure sender etc. TASS is famous for doing open heart surgery when the problem was only gas that could be treated with mylanta !!
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Only on seeing metal shavings in the oil sump cover did they go ahead with opening the engine. At that particular time when opened the sump, could clearly see the shavings, small and curled up like shavings.
I think 4x4addict has a point.

It is very easy for a TASC / TASS to open upa enguine and charge accordingly.

As them to clean up the sump - now that they have opened up the same, refill the same oil oil drained, change the oil filter / oil strainer, change the oil pressure switch / sensor and fire up the engine. If required get a engine flush done before closing the sump. If you get some more metal shavings / particles in the flush only then go in for the engine.

If your oil pressure light is not lighted up - your problem is solved.

Opening up the engine may result in more problems at an later date.
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Old 11th November 2009, 11:06   #93
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From ADC's last posting it seems like an oil circulation issue with potential engine damage. I too agree that they probably started up the car to drive it to the ramp potentially making a bad situation worse, but I suppose there is no way to prove that.
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Old 11th November 2009, 11:30   #94
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The best way to put the beast on the ramp was to toe it using a tierope and pulling it from the other side of the ramp(assuming that the ramp is in the centre of the workshop). by this atleast the worst situation could have been stopped
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Old 11th November 2009, 17:33   #95
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Things are not going okay, in fact it is so gross now, I feel like a moron to buy a Tata Safari now and have it serviced by their authorized centre.

As said, something happened at KB Motors and now this Just Services [TASC] calls up saying that they are seeing gaps in servicing history as per their centralized records that they have downloaded - and when I told them I have each and every invoice records, this service manager changes tone and immediately says then its okay.

The way he talked was simply to find out like whether I had all the invoices and if not they can push this as a customer negligence report and not give at all warranty. After all something happened at KB [gross negligence to sabotage] and these fellows now really know that if they say this, it will pit one authorized service centre with another.

In fact they tried to say that 2nd servicing records they are not seeing right and when told about done at Patna and have invoice and also they must also have seen in the service history printouts [as it is centralized], this TASC fellow started blabbering. This is really gross.

After seeing that they cant nail the blame to me, as I have all the invoices and service history is immaculate, this TASC fellow says a high bill is expected - as if to let me know the way he talks that I should be ready to pay some of the bill and really the way EW [extended warranty] and Tata Motors work is like as if it is they are totally different entity now.

As said, one can play out with the words written on EW booklet and it is really on third party insurer how much to give and TM it seems as if has least botheration now.

Things as said are not at all going okay. It is hard to control your voice now as you speak on the phone - but still not shouting or threatening - waiting for my estimate tomorrow.


The TASC and TASS has failed - now writing to bigwigs and all contact from the eastern region office to mumbai office, one and all for their divine intervention kind of thing.

I want my engine back as it was, smooth and without trouble, [need the complete engine block change] and I am not going to pay a single paisa for all these negligence that happens/happened at a TASC or TASS, it is tata motors responsibility.

Hopefully still things work okay, though chances are now very minimal as I start digging trenches for a long battle ahead, if needed.

Last edited by adc : 11th November 2009 at 17:37.
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Old 11th November 2009, 17:40   #96
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Really feel pity for you and that too when you said this """I feel like a moron to buy a Tata Safari now and have it serviced by their authorized center"""". Hope everything goes on well(fingers crossed for your beast)
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Old 11th November 2009, 17:50   #97
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@adc: Plz. don't feel so. take it up with TML strongly.I am sure writing to them will help augment your case.TASS/TASC will definitely try to extricate maxm. possible from you.have patience and write strongly to TML with a copy to KB Motors and Just Services.If required go to TML RO and meet the RM and Service head there. A knock from above will definitely get the case moving in your favour.Small service centres of TML may not be necessarily connected to TML server in which case their invoices as retained by you will help.

Do write a strong detailed mail.

SB




[quote=adc;1577513]Things are not going okay, in fact it is so gross now, I feel like a moron to buy a Tata Safari now and have it serviced by their authorized centre.

Last edited by sbhaduri : 11th November 2009 at 18:01.
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Old 11th November 2009, 17:50   #98
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I do not think its sabotage. Maybe just negligence of ignoring metal shavings.
Some defect inside the engine could have caused issues, which may have led to oil pump failure. Since its a Tata product, its no big surprise. Critical components like turbo chargers, radiators, timing gear etc., failing is not uncommon in Tata cars.
Now coming to the issue of warranty, service centers make a lot of money from part and labor profits. Moreover, most of them do not care much about the customer. However a rap from the top can make things better.
I suggest you do not wait for the attack, but go on offensive. I am sure you have email ids of customer care dept head(pune etc.,). Just write them a mail. I had to mail them to get the injectors, which supposedly were waiting in europe.
Also note that each region has been allotted an engineer. Not your regular service guy, but an employee of customer care, and he reports to customer care technical team etc.,
Try to get him to check up your car if the service center does hanky panky.
Lastly, tell customer care specifically that the workshop told you that your vehicle history has negligence on maintenance, even though you have all the invoices. Tell them you think that the intentions of the workshop are not noble.
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Old 11th November 2009, 18:19   #99
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Not the kind of issue that anyone would want!

Talk about TATA and their top-of-the-shelf offering, is this what they have for their customers!
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Old 11th November 2009, 19:29   #100
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adc, its really sad to hear of such an occurrence with your Safari. I do hope things get resolved soon, with minimum damage to your purse.

However, one thing i am fairly sure of is that the vehicle is going to be out of action for possibly more than the 10-12 days that they initially mentioned. One you get stuck in these things, they take you through the whole rigmarole at their own sweet pace, leaving you stranded.
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Old 11th November 2009, 21:08   #101
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Hi ADC,

Your Safari was equipped with very few OE issues & niggles, Something that the TATA Quality Check department failed to do, but the TASS made sure that these issues crop up.

Your travelogue's, Ownership experience, etc help me keep My Safari Dream Alive.

I sincerely hope the she come's back with the same engine smoothness & responses that you are used to.
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Old 11th November 2009, 21:51   #102
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Adc,

Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
Things are not going okay, in fact it is so gross now, I feel like a moron to buy a Tata Safari ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by maglev View Post
Your travelogue's, Ownership experience, etc help me keep My Safari Dream Alive.
Don't loose faith Senor`.

You losing trust in your TMT will push many newbie owners/future owners of this beast to despair. Let us not forget, same TMT has ferried you across the country to the remotest part...never balked before obstacles that even a 4x4 would be scared to step on. You should be happy with at least the thought that you are home and safe. TMT has not given up when you were thousands of kms away from home w/ your family.

I know it feels terrible if something close to heart breaks down, but, then these are small ailments, and your beast will be back on her feet, stronger, and gallop soon.

Have patience. Most TASS, I am told, provides a backup vehicle if your car is garaged for more than a few days. Ask them to give you a backup, if you don't have one and, if possible, take few days off and spend time at garage with these folks. Don't give these morons opportunity to prove themselves- preempt that possibility by supervising yourself.

Cheers,
-BJ

Last edited by bj96 : 11th November 2009 at 21:53. Reason: combine posts
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Old 12th November 2009, 09:05   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
I do not think its sabotage. Maybe just negligence of ignoring metal shavings.
Some defect inside the engine could have caused issues, which may have led to oil pump failure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bj96 View Post
Adc,
Don't loose faith Senor`.

if possible, take few days off and spend time at garage with these folks. Don't give these morons opportunity to prove themselves- preempt that possibility by supervising yourself.

Cheers,
-BJ
@ TSK: Oil-Pump failure is not established. ADC has not mentioned the same anywhere.

@ ADC: Do not loose heart as BJ96 mentioned above.

We are imagining the worst possible scenario. Any Authorised Service Station / centre in other parts of the country for any car / vehicle manufacturer always tries to make a fast buck considering the distance from their HO & as the saying goes " when the CAT is away mice are out to play"

Also as SBhaduri said, write to TM-email IDs that he has / or has provided to you. His emails to TM has provided direct & quick responses from TM top bosses themselves. Please attach scanned copies of your invoices for the past services in your email(s).

I also suggest that you make a trip to TM Kolkata office - the address is available on TM's customer-care web-site, and speak to the RM (regional manager) himself.

TM is a monolith and are trying to shake down their "commercial vehicle manufacture only" tag. But being a monolith the movement is too slow for us. They require adrenaldine shots from us, once in a while to galvanise them in to action

Last edited by kingshukt : 12th November 2009 at 09:09.
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Old 12th November 2009, 09:58   #104
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@kingshukt : well said sir.These adrenaline shots made them work in my case hope it does for adc as well.

Best way IMHO is to write a detailed strong mail to TML top bosses.take an appointment with East RM and East Service head and meet them at TML office in Apeejay House Park street, Kolkata.I had to do the same to make things moving in my favour fast.I am sure they would definitely take up adc's case and bail him out.

SB


Quote:
Originally Posted by kingshukt;1578282 They require [B
adrenaldine shots[/b] from us, once in a while to galvanise them in to action

Last edited by sbhaduri : 12th November 2009 at 10:01.
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Old 12th November 2009, 11:40   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbhaduri View Post
@kingshukt : well said sir.These adrenaline shots made them work in my case hope it does for adc as well
If adrenaline shot fails even via-agra wouldn't do and you would be left with limp mode, court battle etc

Well, my style is different. I follow bottoms-up rather than top-down approach in such cases. I would first draft a mail to customercare @ tatamotors. Usually they reply within a day with contacts (mobile and email-id) of local customer support engineer. Speak to that poor engineer and let him explain what he can do for you. If you are unsatisfied escalate higher-up. It will preserve your relations with customer engineer- who is probably your gateway to most things you need for your car- and help you build a rapport with him/her. Going directly to top, may be faster, but leaves many underneath boiling and scratch them wrong way. It will also shut your options to escalate.

-BJ
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