Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Team-BHP Reviews > Long-Term Ownership Reviews


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11th March 2009, 11:07   #46
Distinguished - BHPian
 
supremeBaleno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Weekdays@Chennai, Weekends@Kerala
Posts: 5,164
Thanked: 1,638 Times
Default

Nice review, kaushikz. Made for an interesting read.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava
I still think that the Xenon is overpriced for what it offers. A price of around 7-7.5L ex-showroom would have been better IMO.
So true. A million bucks is too much money for a pickup especially when there is the proper SUV (Safari EX) available for the same price or lesser. More so when this is a new segment being created.

There was this kitted-up Xenon with raised-suspension, winch etc that we once saw at Woodlands drive-in hotel during a tbhp meet and it was just awesome. IIRC, it was an export model or something. Unfortunately did not have a camera with me, though I remember some chennai-bhpians clicking a few snaps on their phone-cams.
That was one hell of a looker. Don't know whether the for-sale-in-India Xenon is the same as that one.
supremeBaleno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2009, 11:13   #47
BHPian
 
ego4evr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: BANGALORE
Posts: 67
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

I happend to test drive the Xenon last week ..

To give a background i did this test drive after test driving the scorpio, well talk about interiors in scorpio it remided me of the wall , this is not supp to be scorpio bashing thread

So after the test drive of scorpio came to concorde on diary circle to test drive the xenon , first things first the interiros i feel is miles ahead than the scorpio( now thats my opinion ) the reason i am comparing it to scorpio is presume getaway will have the same interiors , drive was good, but there was strange 'clink' sound whenevr the clutch was released , seating was very goood specially when compared to scorpio,the driver seat of scorpio was ' YUCK'.

Will i buy the xenon ..yes if i had the money !!
ego4evr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2009, 12:41   #48
Senior - BHPian
 
MileCruncher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,992
Thanked: 356 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ego4evr View Post
seating was very goood specially when compared to scorpio,the driver seat of scorpio was ' YUCK'.
Even I felt that when I TD the Scorpio 2.6 LX. Even the Bolero is better than that
MileCruncher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2009, 12:41   #49
Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: India
Posts: 1,745
Thanked: 19 Times
Default

Can we please stop talking about the interiors?
I'd like to know about the ride and handling.
rippergeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2009, 12:54   #50
Senior - BHPian
 
MileCruncher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,992
Thanked: 356 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
Can we please stop talking about the interiors?
I'd like to know about the ride and handling.
As essentially the Xenon is on the same platform as the Sumo Grande, I don't feel feel it would be much different except that the suspension might be set up for slightly more load (considering the load bay).

Haven't seen the Xenon on road here in Hyderabad as yet
MileCruncher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2009, 12:58   #51
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N.A
Posts: 6,834
Thanked: 1,503 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
Can we please stop talking about the interiors?
I'd like to know about the ride and handling.
+1 to that. How does this thing drive? In 4x4, preferably.

Plastics be damned.
Steeroid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2009, 06:28   #52
Distinguished - BHPian
 
BlackPearl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Calcutta
Posts: 2,311
Thanked: 4,387 Times
Default

If a bolero crdi can cost 8 lacs then I dont understand why this vehicle cannot cost 8.6 lacs with better looks, better safety, better pickup, better everything than the Bolero except that Bolero maybe more reliable. My only concern is the reliablity of this truck being from Tata stables and as Steeroid has mentioned - Plastics be damned. When other manufacturers cannot give ABS, EBD, airbags at this price, how can we expect Tata to be different. They are not here for charity. I find the price to be very reasonable for this truck for the things that it is offering.

Last edited by BlackPearl : 14th March 2009 at 06:33.
BlackPearl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2009, 06:53   #53
Distinguished - BHPian
 
supremeBaleno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Weekdays@Chennai, Weekends@Kerala
Posts: 5,164
Thanked: 1,638 Times
Default

@BP, one reason is that we do not have the pick-up truck culture in India, like it is prevalent in the US and other places. There it is not considered odd to own one - infact people drive to work in one. Here, the only one we ever had was the Tatamobile and it was used more for as a goods transport vehicle than as a lifestyle symbol.

But the Bolero is well known here - the largest selling SUV if you will, and people use it in place of a car also. So. there lies the difference which IMO works against the Xenon. And we are not even talking reliability yet - just the perceived image of both and the price people would be ready to pay for each.

P.S.: Which other manufacturers are you talking about ? Is there some other company also that sells pick-ups apart from Tata ? Or are you talking SUVs in general? Anyway most car manufacturers are either already there when it comes to safety features or the competition will force them to get there soon. Guess SUV/pcik-up manufacturers will also have to follow suit soon.

Last edited by supremeBaleno : 14th March 2009 at 06:59.
supremeBaleno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2009, 14:55   #54
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,729
Thanked: 89,227 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
It is a (widely propogated) myth that you need to rough it out in a rag-topped tub to go off the road - far from it.
It's not a "myth", Steer. Rather a combination of physics, common sense and budget. I wouldn't even consider a Xenon an offroader that can be spoken of in the same sentence as a "rag-topped tub". But since the comparo has been brought up:

1. Low ratio gearbox : Forget anything else, the Xenon doesn't even have a low ratio gearbox. On most OTRs, I am using my low ratio boxes about 1/2 the time. A low ratio is not an option here, it is a necessity. And mind you, we go as low as 2nd low on some stretches....even 3rd low ain't torque enough.

2. Weight : Tipping the scales at 1990 kgs, the Xenon weighs DOUBLE that of a Gypsy King and about 80% MORE than a CJ340. That massive weight simply doesn't cut it. The more you weigh, the more you will get bogged down. And easily too. Plus, the more the weight, the tougher it is to pull you out! On the other hand, a light 4x4 will merrily hop, skip & jump from one spot to the next.

3. Smaller size : We aren't venturing out into human-carved terrain here. The smaller & narrower your 4x4, the more the gaps (created by nature) it will be able to go between. Plus, even if I am going to brush against Mother Natures finest (rocks, trees etc.), I don't have to worry about damaging my expensive paintjob or body parts in a CJ.

4. Heavy duty clutch : What clutch does the Xenon use? How heavy duty is it? A robust clutch is the most basic of requirements for an offroader. Else, you will end up stranded in the middle of nowhere with burnt plates. For the record, my original clutch lasted me well over 1.0 lakh kms. And that included a phenomenal amount of offroading. Either ways, the Xenons lack of low ratio will ensure that you will fry the clutch frequently in anything more than easy terrain.

5. The last I want when offroading is to worry about water getting into the electronics, turbo, 32 bit ECU or the power steering motor. The Xenon has all of 1 ft of water wading capability. C'mon, 1 foot is peanuts! Also, consider this : when I run low on gas in the middle of nowhere, I don't want to worry about the quality of diesel that I buy from a farmer and whether it will destroy my common-rail fuel injection system.

5. Independent Double wishbone suspension : Compromised articulation, more delicate, lower ground clearance (when one side is raised) and expensive to fix (as compared to solid axles). There is a reason why Toyota sells its more extreme landcruiser varients with solid axles. As does the Wrangler. Of course, onroad performance is far superior with IFS. Thus, making it evident what the Xenon is targeted toward. Solid axles can take MUCH more of a beating and are far cheaper to fix.

6. After all the abuse that my CJ takes off the road, if anything is damaged...it costs peanuts to set right. I like that peace of the mind and it makes me more risk-friendly when abusing my Jeep. I don't think it will be the same situation with a Xenon.

7. In a basic 4x4, I don't have to worry about dirtying up the fancy leather and carpets with my muck-laden boots or soiled clothes. Or even giving the interiors a mud bath! A basic 4x4 is awesome when you want to offroad and enjoy mother nature to the fullest.

8. After-market support : LSDs, Dana axles, lift kits, crawler gearing....the list of aftermarket support for the CJ3B and Gypsy is endless.

Simply put : the Xenon can only dream about the places that a SWB Jeep or a Gypsy can go to.

Quote:
I prefer my 4wds to have some level of creature comfort, at least basic stuff like airconditioning and a decent ride quality.
I am not exactly a glutton for punishment either. However, in most specialist applications where you are looking at a budget of less than 10 lakhs, it is a case of either / or and not both. You want offroadability AND comfort? Sure, 23 lakhs will get you a Pajero, 45 lakhs a Montero / Prado and 80 lakhs a Landcruiser. These are competent offroaders, that will deliver on a degree of comfort as well. For the rest of us who want max bang for the buck, supreme offroad capability and don't want to worry about damaging expensive body parts when offroading, SWB Jeeps & Gypsies rock! Another way of looking at it is this : we can have a cheap Jeep / Gypsy for 3 - 4 lakhs, and then spend the differential amount of a car that is a heck of a drive onroad. Thus, instead of a Xenon which is compromised offroad and on it, you could have two cars that are specialists in either. If you want something that does well on the road and off it, be prepared to spend in multiples of the Xenons ex-showroom cost.

Last edited by GTO : 14th March 2009 at 15:02. Reason: Adding after-market point
GTO is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2009, 15:46   #55
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N.A
Posts: 6,834
Thanked: 1,503 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
It's not a "myth", Steer. Rather a combination of physics, common sense and budget. I wouldn't even consider a Xenon an offroader that can be spoken of in the same sentence as a "rag-topped tub". But since the comparo has been brought up:
I maintain, it is a myth. Lets take a look at some of the points you've raised.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
1. Low ratio gearbox : Forget anything else, the Xenon doesn't even have a low ratio gearbox. On most OTRs, I am using my low ratio boxes about 1/2 the time. A low ratio is not an option here, it is a necessity. And mind you, we go as low as 2nd low on some stretches....even 3rd low ain't torque enough.
If the Xenon sports the same transfer case as the Safari (obviously they wouldnt invest in another case just for this low-volume vehicle) it does have a low-transfer case.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
2. Weight :

3. Smaller size :
This is where the myth part comes in. The rest of the world goes off-road too, and they've dumped their CJs and their Jimnys a long time ago. Though I'm not a huge fan of the current crop of 'SUVs' around, you have to admit that most of them see a lot more extreme offroad action than the two vehicles you have chosen to compare. There are plenty of other 1.7+ tonne offroaders that do hard-core off-road duties. Some of the punishment we inflict on our off-roaders every weekend is ridiculous - I dont know about the Gypsy, but the Mahindra 4x4 would definitely not be in one piece after a couple of those outings. Stuff that they do with Nissan and Toyota bakkies in the South African weldt should be seen to be believed - most of them are huge monsters sporting 3.5 or 4.something diesels. They are not light, they are not small.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
4. Heavy duty clutch :
Dont know about the Xenon well enough to comment on the clutch, but assuming that it uses the same piece from the Safari, that would be the 407 truck's clutch. Pretty heavy duty, I would imagine. Mine lasted 66k though very high speed runs, mud-plugging and rock-climbing. Thats pretty varied usage.


As for the rest of your writeup, some points are valid for extreme usage (independent suspension in front, etc) some are perhaps debateable (for purely academic/theoretical purposes) like the GC which at 205mm is 5mm more than the Mahindra Jeep's factory clearance (or 30mm if one were to believe the Classic's GC of 175mm according to Autocar India Forums). But these have not been known to limit other vehicles sporting similar setups in very rough 4x4 usage elsewhere. And this is the point I am trying to make here - I have not driven the Xenon or indeed seen one in person (am assuming you havent, either) and my endeavour here is NOT to compare the Xenon with a CJ or a Gypsy and claim it is superior off-road.

The point is that one does not have to drive around in an ancient tub-on-chassis to be able to go off-road. This is a fact, this is something people around the world keep proving every day in different trails in different countries. And for as many advantages that you might think of in terms of not getting interiors dirty, etc there are n number of advantages of using the newer vehicles. Primary advantage being that you do not have to buy one more vehicle just for off-road usage. The second being that you dont have to slum it out in order reach your off-road trail, because its not like every trail is around the corner from home. In the world we are in today, most people have to travel serious distances to get to a good off-road trail.

I for instance slum it out in a relatively uncomfortable Defender 90 while going off-road every weekend. I have to make do with more noise (wind, engine, everything), less speed, dubious airconditioning and non-adjustable seats, steering etc and a purposeless sound-system while going on these trips while others do it in great comfort in the Landcruisers and Patrols and FJs. What is the advantage I get for these sacrifices - the other guys can only go upto a certain point in Wadis and on hills with rocks on them, I can climb over those. But for 90-95% of the time they can do every trail that I can, in much more comfort. Then again I lose out on the super-steep dune climbs where their engines churning out more output are able to power up and my crawling ability is pretty much useless there. When I sum it all up, where is the real advantage? I could, for the sake of proving my point, take the Defender over some really really punishing terrain where these guys cant reach - but what is the point of that ability other than proving my case? I'm not going to do those trails all the time, I'm not going to drive into Wadis all the time or climb over rocky hills that I can probably do faster on foot.

Do you have to suffer it out for about 3 hours either way to get to a trail that you will have perhaps a 10 or 15% advantage on at the most?

Last edited by Steeroid : 14th March 2009 at 16:02.
Steeroid is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2009, 18:01   #56
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,729
Thanked: 89,227 Times
Default

Good reply, Steer. However, you have missed the main point of my post i.e. explaining why the Xenon is not a serious offroader OR comparing the Xenon's offroadability to the CJ or a Gypsy. It is simply not a match. Thus, if you want to use the Xenon as an example of comfort + offroadability, bringing a comparison to a "rag-topped tub" into the picture, that is a flawed statement. As also your statement that someone looking for a serious offroader will consider the Xenon. Simply because the Xenon is NOT a serious offroader for precisely the reasons stated above (and elaborated below)!

Secondly, I have myself stated that, if money is no object, then 80 lakh rupees will buy you offroadability AND comfort (look at the last paragraph). Thus, I don't see where all this comparo of old school Jeeps to modern Landcruisers came into the picture!! Of course, a modern day offroader is superior. That's called progress! Where is the debate? Thats like saying an Octavia RS is not a performance car because Ferrari Enzo's around the world do the 0 - 100 in 3.xx seconds. Remember, we are speaking in an Indian context on an Indian forum. And no one can argue about the sheer bang for the buck that a 3 lakh rupee Jeep CJ gives you. The fact is, NOTHING below 20 lakhs can touch a CJ or a Gypsy offroad, save for the odd (and rare) Gurkha.

Quote:
Do you have to suffer it out for about 3 hours either way to get to a trail that you will have perhaps a 10 or 15% advantage on at the most?
Relevant to this discussion, the CJ & Gypsy will have a LOT more than just a 10 - 15% advantage over the Xenon. An enthusiast offroader like me is willing to sacrifice whatever additional comfort the Xenon gives me, for the sheer offroadability of my Classic.

Quote:
If the Xenon sports the same transfer case as the Safari (obviously they wouldnt invest in another case just for this low-volume vehicle) it does have a low-transfer case.
If it does, that help's its cause that much more. But the weight, huge dimensions, IFS etc. etc. restrict its offroadability. Like I said earlier, a Xenon can only dream about places that the CJ and Gypsy yawn about.

Quote:
There are plenty of other 1.7+ tonne offroaders that do hard-core off-road duties.
Quote:
Stuff that they do with Nissan and Toyota bakkies in the South African weldt should be seen to be believed - most of them are huge monsters sporting 3.5 or 4.something diesels. They are not light, they are not small.
Sure they would. However, the key difference is:

1. Equipment : A 1.7 tonne Jeep Rubicon or Landcruiser is FAR better equipped than a 2000 kilo Xenon.

2. ENGINE : Those modern offroaders you speak about come, as you stated, with 4+ liter turbo diesels or 4.7 L petrols.

3. PRICE : Like I stated earlier, price no bar, why stop at the landcruisers? Lets consider $200,000 extreme offroaders.

WRT weight : It is simple physics. All things being equal, the lesser the weight of an offroader, the better. This is especially important when we are discussing a 2,000 kilo Xenon and its offroad applicability.

Quote:
This is where the myth part comes in. The rest of the world goes off-road too, and they've dumped their CJs and their Jimnys a long time ago.
Quote:
The point is that one does not have to drive around in an ancient tub-on-chassis to be able to go off-road.
In the Indian context and on a realistic budget, there really aren't too many other options are there? Lets also not forget that a couple of mods can take that "ancient tub on chassis" 4x4 to an entirely different level! There is still a large number of CJ3B enthusiasts around the world. Google is your friend. And some are so heavily tricked out, they've been completing even the famed Rubicon trail very successfully.

Quote:
I dont know about the Gypsy, but the Mahindra 4x4 would definitely not be in one piece after a couple of those outings.
Actually, you don't obviously know about the Mahindra either. Simply because you haven't yet tried one. Let me also assure you that these basic Jeeps are exceedingly tough and can withstand tremendous abuse / the hardest of knocks. Lets not make sweeping statements here and stick to facts. I do have more experience than you when it comes to offroading in Mahindras & Gypsies, and the Jeep can manage / better anything that is thrown at the Gypsy.

Quote:
Dont know about the Xenon well enough to comment on the clutch, but assuming that it uses the same piece from the Safari, that would be the 407 truck's clutch. Pretty heavy duty, I would imagine. Mine lasted 66k though very high speed runs, mud-plugging and rock-climbing. Thats pretty varied usage.
Onroad gypsies have clutches that go over 1.0 lakh kms. Offroad Gypsies fry in 20 - 30K. If your clutch lasted 66K with 99% of on-road driving, that doesn't say a lot about how robust the clutch is from an offroad perspective.

Quote:
As for the rest of your writeup, some points are valid for extreme usage (independent suspension in front, etc)
Actually, not so extreme usage as well. The Xenons IFS double wishbone is at a distinct advantage to solid axles, even in the trails that we go to.

The rest of my writeup also included points on smaller size, lack of electronics, low-mounted water prone turbo-chargers, aftermarket support and cost of repair - factors that are very relevant when talking of the Xenon and other Indian rag-top offroaders.

Quote:
some are perhaps debateable (for purely academic/theoretical purposes) like the GC which at 205mm is 5mm more than the Mahindra Jeep's factory clearance (or 30mm if one were to believe the Classic's GC of 175mm
That wasn't the point. Please read again. I said independent front suspensions, by themselves, offer lower ground clearance when one wheel is raised. It was just one of the many disadvantages listed, of the IFS.

Quote:
But these have not been known to limit other vehicles sporting similar setups in very rough 4x4 usage elsewhere.
They are. The LC's sticking to a solid axle for hardcore offroading and the very expensive Wrangler to a solid axle is attestation enough.

Quote:
And for as many advantages that you might think of in terms of not getting interiors dirty, etc there are n number of advantages of using the newer vehicles.
Sure they are. Each have their own advantages / disadvantages. I prefer being one with nature when offroading, and thus, a luxo-interior doesn't suit my purpose. I will in all probability own a luxo-SUV sooner rather than later. But it is my CJ that will see more offroading runs. Those who want comfort & offroadability can look at the Pajero, Montero, Prado & Landcruiser. But not the Xenon.

Quote:
Primary advantage being that you do not have to buy one more vehicle just for off-road usage.
Agreed. Again, there is the question of price which I have already stated in my previous post. If you want both, be prepared to shell out some serious $$$.

For the record : Take a spin in a *modern* Jeep Rubicon and come back to tell me how comfortable it was. I drove one for 60 miles on Freeway 5 California, and it was outright uncomfortable!! This is a Jeep that can give the LC sleepless nights.

Quote:
In the world we are in today, most people have to travel serious distances to get to a good off-road trail.
Advantage of a modern offroader, I'd agree.

Quote:
When I sum it all up, where is the real advantage?
Simply put : Bang for the buck!

Last edited by GTO : 14th March 2009 at 18:06. Reason: Grammar
GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2009, 18:55   #57
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Bangalore / Madras
Posts: 1,980
Thanked: 14 Times
Default

Time to find a dealer who'll let me take a Xenon to an OTR ;-)
hrag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2009, 19:54   #58
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,729
Thanked: 89,227 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hrag View Post
Time to find a dealer who'll let me take a Xenon to an OTR ;-)
Oh yes! With so many Xenon threads, I'm sure we will have atleast one BHPian as its customer. We have OTRs all across the country, would be great to have a Xenon join us.
GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2009, 21:38   #59
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N.A
Posts: 6,834
Thanked: 1,503 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Good reply, Steer. However, you have missed the main point of my post i.e. explaining why the Xenon is not a serious offroader OR comparing the Xenon's offroadability to the CJ or a Gypsy. It is simply not a match. Thus, if you want to use the Xenon as an example of comfort + offroadability, bringing a comparison to a "rag-topped tub" into the picture, that is a flawed statement. As also your statement that someone looking for a serious offroader will consider the Xenon. Simply because the Xenon is NOT a serious offroader for precisely the reasons stated above (and elaborated below)!
I think I did mention that I am not aware of the Xenon's skills (or lack of them) as I havent even seen one in the flesh. My point was not about the Xenon v/s the others, my point was that people were writing off a vehicle simply because it isnt minimalistic like the Jeep or the Gypsy.

As for affordability, I saw a thread where someone wanted to sell a used Gypsy King for 4.7 lakhs. A new Major costs more than half the Xenon's price tag. The Gurkha, that other celebrated minimalist, costs the same as the Xenon.

For the additional ability to be able to comfortably carry people and perhaps (I say perhaps because I havent driven on) also serve as a 'car', the Xenon does seem to offer more for what they are asking for. Its a different way of looking at the issue - it is also the route I would prefer. Sure I may not be able to do certain things with it, but would I do those things in everyday life or even for a spot of adventure? No way - I am also not inclined to do impractical stuff just to prove what my vehicle can do. I want abilities on my vehicle that would help it serve its purpose as a vehicle, not as a means of climbing up a rock just for the sake of it. If the rock is on my way to somewhere, sure I would want to climb it. How many totally inaccessible places do I visit regularly - I dont live in deepest Africa, where incidentally they do not trust Jeeps.

Your comment on Jeep Rubicons giving TLCs sleepless nights, however, is something I will contest. Out here the Jeeps are called 'money pits' - one weekend off the road = 5 weekdays in the garage fixing various things. For the record, the modern Jeep's 4 Litre V6 also produces less torque than the 2.2 Dicor and is the only vehicle that has to be almost permanently in 4L while offroad while all the others are quite happy on 4H.

Last edited by Steeroid : 14th March 2009 at 21:45.
Steeroid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2009, 14:21   #60
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,729
Thanked: 89,227 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
my point was that people were writing off a vehicle simply because it isnt minimalistic like the Jeep or the Gypsy.
Who did? I quickly went through the thread and don't think I saw anyone dissing it off because it ain't minimalistic. Either ways, I think it's not a "serious offroader" based on reasons already highlit above. On yesterdays recce, the Xenons rear overhang and weight (on loose ground) would have led to disastrous results.

Quote:
As for affordability, I saw a thread where someone wanted to sell a used Gypsy King for 4.7 lakhs. A new Major costs more than half the Xenon's price tag. The Gurkha, that other celebrated minimalist, costs the same as the Xenon.
Absolutely. The Major is terribly overpriced (6 lakhs on the road!!) and so is the Gurkha (9 lakhs). End of the day, there are very simple vehicles that should logically be cheap to build. Could be because of limited volumes or the justification (of still selling a low volume vehicle), but the customer won't (and should'nt) care about that. I don't think the Gypsy is too overpriced though, because it does give you Jap quality.

BTW, don't miss the recent thread on near-new 4,000 km Gypsy Kings going for 4 lakhs. When supply is limited, prices in the used car market swing either side. Bigtime.

Quote:
For the additional ability to be able to comfortably carry people and perhaps (I say perhaps because I havent driven on) also serve as a 'car', the Xenon does seem to offer more for what they are asking for.
I see it as over-priced and comparing it to other over-priced vehicles is not going anywhere. Either ways, value is a subjective term. Most comments I've read refer to the Xenon being overpriced.

Quote:
No way - I am also not inclined to do impractical stuff just to prove what my vehicle can do. I want abilities on my vehicle that would help it serve its purpose as a vehicle, not as a means of climbing up a rock just for the sake of it. If the rock is on my way to somewhere, sure I would want to climb it.
That's the fun of it! Most regular offroaders are always on the lookout for that "rock to climb". Like our Mumbai recce yesterday. We toured the entire of the Khandala / Lonavla "looking" for challenging terrain. You could say that we went out of the way for trouble and didn't really enjoy at the times that the going was easy.

Quote:
Out here the Jeeps are called 'money pits' - one weekend off the road = 5 weekdays in the garage fixing various things.
True. While I wouldn't say they need 5 days in repair for every day off the road, Chrysler's Jeeps will never be as reliable as say...a Jap Landcruiser or Pajero. Get this, I drove xtreme powers 3.0 lakh km '84 Pajero and that thing drove like 80% new. Unbelievable and sheer respect for such a work horse.

While on that, let's not forget that older Landcruisers (namely the 80 series) are considered more of extreme offroaders than the later models (100 & 120 series) by actual LC owners & enthusiasts. Ditto for the older Pajeros compared to the current Montero. Thus, ancient is not necessarily a bad thing, especially when you consider that modern SUVs are being increasingly tuned to improve onroad performance, as well as getting more complicated, expensive, larger and heavier.

Finally on the topic of ancient, don’t forget to ask xtreme power of the capability of my “ancient ragtop tub on chassis Jeep”. He is someone who builds off-roaders 6 days a week and has owned / been out in the best of them (Hummers, Range Rovers, Defenders, Pajeros, 6x6’s) and owns some that me and you wouldn't have even heard of. Simply put, his knowledge, experience and expertise are unparalleled. He walked away thoroughly impressed with the Classic's offroad performance. The CJ matched everything that the Defender could, and 8 times out of 10, with an equal amount of ease. There were spots where both of us nearly got stuck, only to emerge victorious a coupla moments later. There were also spots where either my Jeep or his Defender had an individual advantage. Thats saying a lot, after all the Defender is the supposed best offroader in the world, right?

Quote:
For the record, the modern Jeep's 4 Litre V6 also produces less torque than the 2.2 Dicor and is the only vehicle that has to be almost permanently in 4L while offroad while all the others are quite happy on 4H.
Agreed. And it will be a guzzler too. Petrol disadvantage. More to do with the Yankee allergy to diesel (higher price of diesel, emission norms and 9.xx / 10 sales advantage in favour of petrols). If only they'd dump the Liberty's diesel into the Wrangler or start production of the prototype Rubicon diesel that they've already built.

It's funny we started this healthy discussion just on the eve of a Mumbai recce. Yesterday, we (my Classic & a Defender) dashed against walls made of rocks, huge boulders hit our 4x4s, and we drove through some trees (including one that curiously looked like a cactus). Because it was my Jeep, I am happily smiling away and am posting now. If it was an 80 lakh rupee landcruiser, my accountant would be checking available cash on hand and I’d not have slept last night. Like I said earlier, I will in all probability own a luxo-SUV sooner rather than later. But its pretty evident which 4x4 from my garage is going to be offroading. When the cost of repair is cheap, you will become more risk-friendly and explore far more than someone who is worried about Rs. 50,000 doors.

Comfort : Even though I have a (very) effective air-con in my Jeep, I only put it on once we hit the highway to come back home. I prefer to enjoy mother nature and take her beauty in rather than watch scenery from behind tinted glasses. Suits my purpose to the T.
GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tata Xenon Crew-Cab launched : The Downgraded variant of Xenon XT jeepster Commercial Vehicles 176 22nd April 2017 18:12
The Tata Xenon Tuff Truck Concept (for Australia) jeepster Modifications & Accessories 19 16th November 2013 23:33
COPS making a quick buck by picking vehicles parked in parking area motorheadinc Street Experiences 13 4th August 2008 17:24
ICICI Lombard trying to make a quick buck again nirmalts Indian Car Loans & Insurance 30 27th August 2007 16:38
First/Best bang for the buck Upgrade for a Skoda 1.8TPI nanu28 Modifications & Accessories 11 4th November 2005 17:19


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 02:29.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks