Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Team-BHP Reviews > Long-Term Ownership Reviews


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 24th April 2009, 14:17   #76
Senior - BHPian
 
jaysmokesleaves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mostly Mumbai
Posts: 1,676
Thanked: 1,159 Times
Default

Yes indeed. Without extended warranty you are asking for trouble.
As for the service , my opinion is that TML is trying to achieve international standards which is along way off. The company seems to support its dealers well & vice versa. The QC standards still suck and TML is light years away from any international QC standard. Though the customer is well compensated with free replacements under warranty.
But if the Safari was your 'only' vehicle then you will certainly not appreciate Tata's QC, because you may be left without a vehicle while they attempt their troubleshooting circus at the cost of your time.
jaysmokesleaves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2009, 14:29   #77
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pune
Posts: 448
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

Both you and TSK have Ex 4*4.
Both of you have the same problem of service light.

Has anybody with a VTT EX 2WD experienced the service light problem on the same scale as TSK or JSL ?

Somehow I am not anymore about not going in for a 4*4.
No offence meant to you or TSK
kingshukt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2009, 15:00   #78
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,955
Thanked: 15,648 Times
Default

smsrini has seen this I think.
Its not related to 4x4, its related to fuel delivery system and peripherals, which is exactly same in 4x4 and 4x2
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2009, 16:09   #79
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pune
Posts: 448
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

I was just trying to think out of the box .

I thought on this line because:
1. My vehicle has not run as much as yours or JSL's has and hence I am ruled out.
2. We have a Sr. BHPian in Trivandrum, JKDAS, whose 2WD VTT has also clocked 30K KM+ and has not reported the service light issue.
3. We have HARJEEV in Delhi area whose 2.2 VTT 2WD (amongst the early ones) has also clocked 25K KM+ and has not reported service light issue.
4. The service light condition is controlled by ECU. The ECU programming may be different for a 4*4 - on account of the front transfer case and related electronics for shift-on-the-fly.

But then I could be wrong. Untill TM / TASS finds a cause, there is no reason not to suspect everything out of the regular.

Just my 2 bits.
kingshukt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2009, 16:21   #80
Senior - BHPian
 
smsrini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,003
Thanked: 256 Times
Default service light

Kingshuk,

My 2.2 VTT saw the service light issue around 24k kms. resolved by injector change and HP lines change.
smsrini is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2009, 16:32   #81
Distinguished - BHPian
 
4x4addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 3,975
Thanked: 2,497 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingshukt View Post
I was just trying to think out of the box .

2. We have a Sr. BHPian in Trivandrum, JKDAS, whose 2WD VTT has also clocked 30K KM+ and has not reported the service light issue.
3. We have HARJEEV in Delhi area whose 2.2 VTT 2WD (amongst the early ones) has also clocked 25K KM+ and has not reported service light issue.
If you read all the Safari threads most people have got the service light coming on or some loss of power situation including JKdas, harjeev, Srini etc. Check out the Safari 2.2 threads if you think otherwise. There is definitely some issues with the Lucas system which Tata's need to probe and rectify.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingshukt View Post
4. The service light condition is controlled by ECU. The ECU programming may be different for a 4*4 - on account of the front transfer case and related electronics for shift-on-the-fly.
The Safari's transfer case is electric but not ECU controlled. It just means that the shift to 4WD is done using an electric motor as opposed to a mechanical lever. The same Borg Warner transfer cases is used with non ECU engines such as the older 2.0 TCIC engine and Bolero 4WD with the XD3P IDI engine. 4WD is not controlled by ECU in any way. Many of the others have noticed the service light come on but the problems haven't been as persistent as for tsk.

Tata will eventually figure out the issue but the earlier owners will have to live with the trial and error diagnosis. Also no one has been stranded due to this. For me personally this is something that needs to get resolved if I were to spring for one.

Last edited by 4x4addict : 24th April 2009 at 16:34.
4x4addict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2009, 16:43   #82
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pune
Posts: 448
Thanked: 6 Times
Default Service Light

Injector and HP line change has apparantly worked for you and TSK but not for JSL.

Unless JSL's TASS has not taken the trouble to really change and check correctly, we have a un-solved problem and the problem is inconsistant.

BTW ADC has not reported service light problem (of the same severity) even after his Sikkim trip.

@4*4addict: I agree that JKDAS has reported the service light condition, but it was not of the of the same severity as of TSK and JSL. His service came on and went out. Service light can also result in limp home condition in which you will not be stranded but getting to the next town / city in case you are out on the highway will be a pain.
I do not recall Harjeev's case of Service light but then I may have missed it.

I agree the transfer case are electrically operated but the ECU must have a link to know that 4*4 either H or L has been activated. The engine / transmission are in a different condition with 4*4 activated.

The older non-ECU engines are different and are much simpler to problem-solve. The problem was usually mechenical in nature with electronics not playing any part.
kingshukt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2009, 16:49   #83
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,955
Thanked: 15,648 Times
Default

I actually had service light issue twice. First was this coasting service light.
After that I saw service light under high load, while extracting the car from sand.
That problem has gone away after Accelerator pedal change.
Don't ask me what has the acc. pedal got to do with it
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2009, 18:07   #84
Distinguished - BHPian
 
4x4addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 3,975
Thanked: 2,497 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingshukt View Post
I agree the transfer case are electrically operated but the ECU must have a link to know that 4*4 either H or L has been activated. The engine / transmission are in a different condition with 4*4 activated.
The engine transmission are not in any different condition with 4X4 activated. Where did you get this information? What condition is different?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
That problem has gone away after Accelerator pedal change.
Don't ask me what has the acc. pedal got to do with it
Exactly my point that this problem remains unrectified. They keep changing parts and it maybe a hit or miss. The light going away may have nothing to do with the accelerator pedal and you will know that only when the light comes on again and they change the seat adjusters this time.
4x4addict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2009, 19:40   #85
Senior - BHPian
 
Red Liner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,192
Thanked: 1,117 Times
Default

Just smash that service light bulb and cut off the fuse that links to it! Jeez!

This is exactly what I wanted to do when I owned my Palio S10 and the fuel prices touched like 65 bucks or something. Just wanted to smash that yellow reserve light :P
Red Liner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2009, 19:59   #86
Distinguished - BHPian
 
4x4addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 3,975
Thanked: 2,497 Times
Default

kingshukt:

There are a couple of others with the 2.2 VVTI and 4WD who has not had these issues.
4x4addict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th April 2009, 04:02   #87
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N.A
Posts: 6,834
Thanked: 1,503 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
The Safari's transfer case is electric but not ECU controlled. It just means that the shift to 4WD is done using an electric motor as opposed to a mechanical lever. The same Borg Warner transfer cases is used with non ECU engines such as the older 2.0 TCIC engine and Bolero 4WD with the XD3P IDI engine. 4WD is not controlled by ECU in any way. Many of the others have noticed the service light come on but the problems haven't been as persistent as for tsk. .
Actually there is a certain amount of ECU control, as I found out.

The transfer case has its own little ECU (I think its the one that sits under the passenger's seat).

Further, the transfer case will not engage by itself even if the motor works - for 4x4L there is some kind of clutch position sensor which was mysteriously missing from my truck after a prolonged stay at its original dealership. Concorde spent quite a few hours checking the 4x4 mechanism to find out why it wouldnt engage when everything was apparently quite fine - the same mechanism worked on another truck, for example.

Ultimately they found it was linked to this switch (which was missing) - the ECU (which one, I dont know - they've gone down the Land Rover path with a zillion ECUs, one for each separate function) wouldnt allow the 4x4 (LOW only) to engage until it received the signal from the clutch position switch to say that the clutch is actually engaged.

So yes the 4x4 mechanism isnt entirely electrical/electro-mechanical. There is a bit of electronics involved, too.

The more I work on my LR, the more I find several concepts that were 'borrowed' by TML - perhaps with the "foresight" that they will one day take over the original .

Last edited by Steeroid : 25th April 2009 at 04:03.
Steeroid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th April 2009, 05:03   #88
Distinguished - BHPian
 
4x4addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 3,975
Thanked: 2,497 Times
Default

Steer by ECU, I mean that you have a microprocessor chip with programming logic like an engine ECU.

The Borg Warner 4WD system has electric/mechanical inputs to engage 4WD but no ECU. If you see the wiring diagram of the 4WD system, there is no electronic/micro processor in the circuit it is purely electric switch, no different from the old switches that were on the brake pedal to turn on the electric light.

Either way none of what you mentioned above should affect the main engine ECU. The 4WD transfer case motor maybe getting input from various sensors, but the point that i was trying to make is that the service light coming in not related to tsks or Jay's safari being 4WD.

Last edited by 4x4addict : 25th April 2009 at 05:05.
4x4addict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th April 2009, 09:09   #89
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pune
Posts: 448
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Actually there is a certain amount of ECU control, as I found out.

The transfer case has its own little ECU (I think its the one that sits under the passenger's seat).

I had forgotton about this ECU / Electronic Control. Thanks Steeriod.
Page No 131 of the owners manual on http://customercare.tatamotors.com/m...afariDicor.pdf mentions "Transfer Case ECU".

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Steer by ECU, I mean that you have a microprocessor chip with programming logic like an engine ECU.

The Borg Warner 4WD system has electric/mechanical inputs to engage 4WD but no ECU. If you see the wiring diagram of the 4WD system, there is no electronic/micro processor in the circuit it is purely electric switch, no different from the old switches that were on the brake pedal to turn on the electric light.

Either way none of what you mentioned above should affect the main engine ECU. The 4WD transfer case motor maybe getting input from various sensors, but the point that i was trying to make is that the service light coming in not related to tsks or Jay's safari being 4WD.
I think (and am reasonably confident ) that the engine ECU does "talk" to the Transfer case ECU. We cannot campare the the safari 2.2 4*4 with older 4*4s.

I am also reasonably sure that the engine ECU for a 4*2 would be different than a 4*4 even if the difference is only on account of a few additional lines of computer code. Can someone confirm whether the part number(s) are the same or different. (TSK .. Your ECU was changed was'nt it ?)

When a 4*4 Safari is switched on (only the ignition and not the engine)the 4H and 4L light comes on and then shuts off. This I think would be the ECU(s) doing a internal test.

EDIT:
4*4Addict: Other 2.2 VTT 4*4 not having this problem only make the problem more complex and interesting .

Last edited by kingshukt : 25th April 2009 at 09:20.
kingshukt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th April 2009, 09:13   #90
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pune
Posts: 448
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
Just smash that service light bulb and cut off the fuse that links to it! Jeez!

This is exactly what I wanted to do when I owned my Palio S10 and the fuel prices touched like 65 bucks or something. Just wanted to smash that yellow reserve light :P
Hey, I understand your sentiments. BUT smashing the light bulb will not make the problem go away and you will be reminded of it every second, if the vehicle goes in to a Limp-home status.
kingshukt is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tata Safari GX 4x4 Mineral Red - 70,000 kms and counting HappyWheels Long-Term Ownership Reviews 486 29th August 2016 17:44
Reclaiming life - My Tata Safari TCIC. 13 years, 1,23,000 kms and counting sumannandy Long-Term Ownership Reviews 163 19th April 2015 07:54
Tata Safari 4x4 The Off Road, and No road journeys tsk1979 4x4 Excursions 158 27th March 2014 21:55
Tata Safari 4x4, completes 4 years bj96 Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 113 6th March 2013 22:18
Safari GX 4x4 Mineral Red - Booked and waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting... HappyWheels Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 166 9th August 2009 11:54


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 20:53.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks