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Old 16th May 2009, 00:36   #31
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Nice crisp review and a very well maintained Scorp.

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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
ha! so did I. But hitting that wicked pothole at 80kmph was what did that wheel in. No sense in braking hard because that would have just caused chaos - there was a bus coming in the opposite direction so I simply had to go half off the road surface - straight into the pothole - bad luck - but one lives and learns I guess.
May I ask what exactly is the problem in breaking from 80 Kmph even if bus is coming from opposite direction I would assume bus was not in same lane ( would have collided head on in that case ) ? After all breaks are meant for such situations.

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Originally Posted by tanwaramit View Post
leave aside slush, water, swamps etc, if any of the wheel gets stuck (normal hump), will the car be able to make on road on its own ? Is this vehicle forward wheel drive or rear ?

I have got stuck with my santro front wheel, (then I realized santro is a forward drive car).
Even if rear wheel is stuck in a normal hump torque of diesel engine is enough to bring it out in lower gear you don't need 4 wheel drive for this.
Santro has very less low end torque.

Last edited by amitk26 : 16th May 2009 at 00:41.
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Old 16th May 2009, 10:26   #32
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Even if rear wheel is stuck in a normal hump torque of diesel engine is enough to bring it out in lower gear you don't need 4 wheel drive for this.
Santro has very less low end torque.
Wont the wheels rotate on their own ? I noticed that the wheels were spinning but could not move the vehicle out. Had to push the vehicle out thanks to some passersby.
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Old 17th May 2009, 18:52   #33
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Wont the wheels rotate on their own ? I noticed that the wheels were spinning but could not move the vehicle out. Had to push the vehicle out thanks to some passersby.
Well you wrote if rear wheel is stuck up in normal hump and I responded to it.
If suppose both the rear wheels are in a hump and hump is such that they are rotating freely obviously a 2 WD can not come out, but I would assume for all practical normal humps there will be a little traction which a torquey engine and 16 inch wheel can overcome.
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Old 17th May 2009, 19:04   #34
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Well, i have seen enough otr's where even 2wd jeeps struggle. And their torque comes a lot early on than the newer engines. And if you have seen them struggle in areas where 4wd is a blind cakewalk, you would get 4wd right now. You forget that those 16 inch wheels and engine are pulling a 2 tonner. Not good to experiment in 2wd.
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Old 17th May 2009, 22:00   #35
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Well, i have seen enough otr's where even 2wd jeeps struggle. And their torque comes a lot early on than the newer engines. And if you have seen them struggle in areas where 4wd is a blind cakewalk, you would get 4wd right now. You forget that those 16 inch wheels and engine are pulling a 2 tonner. Not good to experiment in 2wd.
Compleatly agree but when the discussion originated referring to Santro so one would assume a normal hump means a pretty normal hump encountered in onroad scenario as in broken road and not a real offroad scenario. So if the situation is such that both rear wheels are going to spin then nothing but a 4WD would do.
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Old 18th May 2009, 10:29   #36
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Compleatly agree but when the discussion originated referring to Santro so one would assume a normal hump means a pretty normal hump encountered in onroad scenario as in broken road and not a real offroad scenario. So if the situation is such that both rear wheels are going to spin then nothing but a 4WD would do.
Right, I was curious on understanding for a ditch (for one tyre), how well would a 2WD SUV be able to come out ! (though my guesses are, it wont)
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Old 18th May 2009, 10:51   #37
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Originally Posted by tanwaramit View Post
Right, I was curious on understanding for a ditch (for one tyre), how well would a 2WD SUV be able to come out ! (though my guesses are, it wont)
So I was right in assuming this my experience with a Safari 2.2 One Tyre comes out pretty well and also it fares quite good in slippy gravel.

Few months back Road in front of my home was dug up with a JCB for resurfacing. Many cars including a Honda city Zx an Optra and a Sonata were stuck and have to be pushed back to parking with collective effort of all the watchmen of the apartment , They were dead against my taking out Safari saying who will push this elephant but it I persisted as I had taken it out from much difficult scenarios earlier and successfully drove in and out of my parking for full 4 days till a road roller compacted the debris everyone else in locality was on mercy of Autos. I would assume one should expect same behavior from a 16 inch wheeled 2WD Scorpio.

EDIT : Sorry Shankar for taking your space but I am still waiting for your view on not applying breaks.

Last edited by amitk26 : 18th May 2009 at 10:56.
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Old 19th May 2009, 09:39   #38
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So I was right in assuming this my experience with a Safari 2.2 One Tyre comes out pretty well and also it fares quite good in slippy gravel.

EDIT : Sorry Shankar for taking your space but I am still waiting for your view on not applying breaks.
Right, thanks for sharing your experience. Shankar, you can blame me for hijacking this thread. Sorry about that, its just I wanted to know some inputs from 2WD Scorpio owners, have been mulling of buying a scorpio to take to exotic places but dread of the truck getting stuck somewhere where you least want it to be.
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Old 19th May 2009, 09:52   #39
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Right, thanks for sharing your experience. Shankar, you can blame me for hijacking this thread. Sorry about that, its just I wanted to know some inputs from 2WD Scorpio owners, have been mulling of buying a scorpio to take to exotic places but dread of the truck getting stuck somewhere where you least want it to be.
Well for exotic places you definitely need a 4WD , My take on this is when you are spending close to 9 Lakhs why not one lakh extra and get a 4WD , I was not T-BHp member when I made my purchase but in hidsight now I think I must have gone for 4X4 Safari. I am not fully sure If one can buy a 4X4 Scorpio or not. Why don't you start a new thread.
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Old 19th May 2009, 10:51   #40
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Originally Posted by tanwaramit View Post
Right, thanks for sharing your experience. Shankar, you can blame me for hijacking this thread. Sorry about that, its just I wanted to know some inputs from 2WD Scorpio owners, have been mulling of buying a scorpio to take to exotic places but dread of the truck getting stuck somewhere where you least want it to be.
HVkumar has travelled lots of so called exotic places in his 2WD scorpio. check the safari pics thread, one member (ADC) has gone to ladhak & leh in this 2WD safari. its not necessary every time you need a 4WD. but yes, god forbid you get stuck up somewhere, you will need a 4x4. but why should you take a scorpio or safari to such places? they are not extreme off roaders in any case.

Last edited by raj_5004 : 19th May 2009 at 10:56.
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Old 20th May 2009, 07:36   #41
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no problem at all braking. However, the road was pretty badly broken and there were huge potholes on it. I obviously DID brake - or else Id have been sitting along with the Bus driver going in the opposite direction. But the fact is, that I could not avoid the pot hole and I heard a distinct double thump when I hit the pothole. This was while I was travelling at about 80kmph but reducing speed on account of having cut gears to 3rd, 2nd and constant braking - but still the vehicle had not slowed down sufficiently to take the bump without spoiling the wheel. If I had braked really hard in such conditions, remember my vehicle doesnt have ABS etc, so there is a very real possibility of dry skid and a whole lot of other complications, all of which I wished to avoid. In cases like that pot hole, normally one should come to an almost dead halt, ease the vehicle into the pot hole if there is no other option and then ease it out again. You may get an idea when I say the pot hole would have measured about 3 feet diameter and was around 8-10 inches deep, with the tarmace forming a hard lip all around it. (that is as near as I can describe). Unfortunately I didnt anticipate such a pot hole which is why I hit it at a higher speed than normal. As it happened, only two small portions on the INNER edge of the wheel went out of shape with the impact. This wheel can be used as a spare, but owing to the two "bends" can never be aligned nor balanced again - knocking out the bends is NOT an option in these modern wheels unlike the old Ambys etc.

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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Nice crisp review and a very well maintained Scorp.



May I ask what exactly is the problem in breaking from 80 Kmph even if bus is coming from opposite direction I would assume bus was not in same lane ( would have collided head on in that case ) ? After all breaks are meant for such situations.



Even if rear wheel is stuck in a normal hump torque of diesel engine is enough to bring it out in lower gear you don't need 4 wheel drive for this.
Santro has very less low end torque.

Last edited by shankar.balan : 20th May 2009 at 07:39.
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Old 20th May 2009, 09:48   #42
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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
HVkumar has travelled lots of so called exotic places in his 2WD scorpio. check the safari pics thread, one member (ADC) has gone to ladhak & leh in this 2WD safari. its not necessary every time you need a 4WD. but yes, god forbid you get stuck up somewhere, you will need a 4x4. but why should you take a scorpio or safari to such places? they are not extreme off roaders in any case.
Thanks Raj, am looking for Scorpio only. but not very serious offroading required, just some trips to exotic locales with family like ADC has been doing around. God forbid if get stuck, wont get any help at such places to take the truck out. India has such beautiful locales that one MUST visit

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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Well for exotic places you definitely need a 4WD , My take on this is when you are spending close to 9 Lakhs why not one lakh extra and get a 4WD , I was not T-BHp member when I made my purchase but in hidsight now I think I must have gone for 4X4 Safari. I am not fully sure If one can buy a 4X4 Scorpio or not. Why don't you start a new thread.
Well, its scorpio only for me and need mHawk. I guess for starting my own thread, mera time bhi aayega , till then will keep asking questions to the knowledgable guys here.
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Old 20th May 2009, 10:14   #43
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Originally Posted by tanwaramit View Post
Thanks Raj, am looking for Scorpio only. but not very serious offroading required, just some trips to exotic locales with family like ADC has been doing around. God forbid if get stuck, wont get any help at such places to take the truck out. India has such beautiful locales that one MUST visit



Well, its scorpio only for me and need mHawk. I guess for starting my own thread, mera time bhi aayega , till then will keep asking questions to the knowledgable guys here.
Tanwaramit it all depends on how one defines exotic , Leh .Laddakh , badrinath etc is done by regular indicab taxis as well. But once you reach a point where metallic or gravel road ends and you need to hire a local 4X4 guy which may or may not be available then the mood spoils.
For example just think you reached Manali in 2 WD but can not go up to the snow filled roads just because you did not foresee need of a 4WD how would you feel

It happned to me in Munnar , Could not go to Annamudi peak because 2WD can not go but I do not have offroading bug and traveling in comfort and safety for hundreds of miles is more important so don't regret such one off cases much.

Mind it ADC has done far more exotic places in his 2WD safari then anybody else ( discounting traveling on paved road by other distinguished B-HPians ) but still in his posts you can feel that at times he miss 4WD. It it not that 4WDdScorp / Safari are any less capable then Jeeps / Gypsy ( I can see 4X4 Jeepers pouncing on me ) but then people don't want to take 11 Lakh vehicle for hardcore offroaing. If you want to see what a so called softroader 4WD can do see Hrag 's thread or some of the videos of Italian 4WD Safari owners.

But then if you are a guy for whom broad projecting tires, shiny alloys , Nudge guards and extra lights and racing to next traffic signal is what SUVs are all about investing in a 2WD Scorpio and spending couple of lakhs on aftermarket image enhancers makes perfect choice.

Last edited by amitk26 : 20th May 2009 at 10:18.
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Old 20th May 2009, 16:05   #44
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largely for normal use - regardless of where you want to take it, the 2wd scorp is enough. the vehicle is quite heavy though, so one doesnt usually take a 2wd scorp type vehicle into slushy roads, mud, water, sand etc.
for extremely steep inclines in muddy conditions, yes, one definitely benefits by 4wd
but for the most part, a 2WD is more than sufficient as per my experience. One needs to drive it in the correct gear and at the correct speed to make maximum use of the diesel engine's natural torque.
i ve driven to quite a few places in my 2WD Scorp but as I ve said before I wont risk it in deep water on account of the electronics (Crde engine) and on extremely muddy, slushy and swampy stretches because then I shall have to hire a tractor to take the vehicle out in case it sinks.
the older MM540 (even the 2WD versions) are much lighter than the Scorp - same case with the Bolero 2WD - also their engines are far more basic - no heavy electronics and stuff - therefore, one can take those vehicles to some pretty wild places.
The 2WD scorp is first class as a cruiser on highways, long trips, bad roads with or without benefit of tarmac etc but it is at best a semi- off- roader - certainly not a hard core off road vehicle. I wouldnt insult it by saying "soft roader" because it is definitely a very tough and capable vehicle, but still, has its limitations in its 2WD avatar. With 4WD it is quite a beast. But personally I would prefer the older 2.6 regular turbo engined 4Wd version rather than the new Crde 2.6 4WD. This is because that old engine is far more basic and has no electronics in it which may get fouled up in water etc.
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Old 21st May 2009, 11:54   #45
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I guess I will be banned by Mods for going serious OT and hijacking others threads, so will not ask more questions on 4WD on this thread. Amit, Raj and Shankar, thanks to all of you for providing answers with patience. Shankar, again sorry dude your thread has been taken somewhere else, I can be blamed for that.

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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
For example just think you reached Manali in 2 WD but can not go up to the snow filled roads just because you did not foresee need of a 4WD how would you feel
Would feel bad for sure, cos its not everyday you reach upto that place. Thats the whole point of buying 4WD. Investing 11L, then better look for 4WD.
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Mind it ADC has done far more exotic places in his 2WD safari then anybody else
ADC has been an inspiration, need to checkout if he has his ownership thread too.
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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post

But then if you are a guy for whom broad projecting tires, shiny alloys , Nudge guards and extra lights and racing to next traffic signal is what SUVs are all about investing in a 2WD Scorpio and spending couple of lakhs on aftermarket image enhancers makes perfect choice.
he he he I am not that type of guy for sure , need SUV for its use and comfort. No aftermarket fitments and showoffs either in motion or on standstill.

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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
largely for normal use - regardless of where you want to take it, the 2wd scorp is enough. the vehicle is quite heavy though, so one doesnt usually take a 2wd scorp type vehicle into slushy roads, mud, water, sand etc.
True, muds, slushy roads, water etc ruled out as my travel roads, only locales of hilly region like ADC has been to are my inspiration and need.
for extremely steep inclines in muddy conditions, yes, one definitely benefits by 4wd

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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
but for the most part, a 2WD is more than sufficient as per my experience. One needs to drive it in the correct gear and at the correct speed to make maximum use of the diesel engine's natural torque.
Well thats an inspiration

I agree on your other points.

Last edited by tanwaramit : 21st May 2009 at 11:56.
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