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Old 17th July 2009, 12:56   #61
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Originally Posted by black12rr View Post
But some times this things happen and ppl do force things to do or buy that we dont require .


Check for the Waxoyl engine treatment I did Now that was a waste!
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Old 17th July 2009, 13:07   #62
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Glifford I suggest you go back to the service center & ask for justification for the bulb price, this is daylight robbery.

Please post your ICE DIY as a separate thread & possibly with illustrations
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Old 17th July 2009, 13:16   #63
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Glifford I suggest you go back to the service center & ask for justification for the bulb price, this is daylight robbery.
I cannot do that now. They had told me the price and I had read it on the FF group before hand. So after accepting it, I cannot call it cheating.

Maybe this can be taken up with Ford directly. The dealer cannot false charge on parts.

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Please post your ICE DIY as a separate thread & possibly with illustrations
Will do. Was about to ask you for this and your answer came in
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Old 17th July 2009, 17:26   #64
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Default Used FF+ Diesel?

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Originally Posted by balajird View Post
Between, if a diesel Ford Fusion+ is up for sale, do let me know
I guess you meant BTW.

Now some pieces of advice from my point of view. Yours could be different.

1. The Fusion itself is a rare car in the market, finding one is hard enough. And a Diesel, even rarer.

2. The Fusion has been here for about half a decade and for almost 70% of that, the only Fusions produced were Petrol. The Diesel came just under two years back. And the + version (which was discontinued in the middle) just over a year ago.

3. Point 1 and 2 above mean there are hardly any Diesel +s around. So finding one for sale would be even harder.

4. Diesels also tend to be very efficient (frugal) so owners give them up less. Petrols are normally with enthusiastic buyers so they tend to change cars more often too.

Now a couple of questions:

1. What is your expected monthly usage of the car?
2. What is your budget?
3. Do you appreciate performance?

If you driving is anywhere like mine (500 km/ month) and a budget (in Bangalore) of anywhere between 3-4 lacs, I suggest getting an older generation FF+ with ABS (it was optional on the + back then). The looks may be slightly tame as compared to the aggressive current looks, but it was a fine car with more European blood than the current one. And it was better equipped too. Rear Power socket, leather steering+gear knob, body cladding, all seats have map lights, baggage net, OE Stereo (if it matters) etc are not standard on the current version.

You should get a used FF+ petrol (old version) in Bangalore for around 3,50,000. I doubt you can get a used FF (forget+) diesel for anywhere under 5,00,000. If your driving is not too much, you will never be able to recover the difference you pay for a diesel in fuel savings!

Get a petrol and enjoy the power it offers!
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Old 17th July 2009, 17:54   #65
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Glifford is it you who travels in Ford Fusion in Airport road towards Marathahalli in the morning? because i used to see a fusion regularly (almost everyday) with the cladding on the driver side door missing. I usually see this between command hospital and Domlur.
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Old 17th July 2009, 18:11   #66
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Glifford is it you who travels in Ford Fusion in Airport road towards Marathahalli in the morning? because i used to see a fusion regularly (almost everyday) with the cladding on the driver side door missing. I usually see this between command hospital and Domlur.
When? Is the question. Is it the same colour you see in the snaps at the beginning of the thread? Moondust Silver?

Yes I do go towards Marthahalli to work in the mornings. But I have (almost) never driven between Command Hospital and Domlur in the mornings. I normally come from Old Madras Road via HAL and then onto Airport road. In the evenings (around 16:45 I used to drive to Richmond town for my Spanish Class and occasionaly go by car).

And the cladding was missing only for a two week period between 26-Apr-2009 and 09-May-2009. It is back to normal now.

Besides, I drive to work less than once a week. And in the month and a half I drove to work just once. Rest has been either by bike or public transport.

So the question is... is it me?
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Old 17th July 2009, 20:30   #67
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Originally Posted by Glifford View Post
...
Now some pieces of advice from my point of view. Yours could be different.
Now a couple of questions:

1. What is your expected monthly usage of the car?
2. What is your budget?
3. Do you appreciate performance?

.....
Thanks for the suggestions Glifford, I appreciate your detailed suggestion in this regard. My answers to your questions which will help me in getting more appropriate suggestions from the fellow members.

1. atleast 1000 Kms (I am planning for a long weekend drive atleast once a month and may be at the most twice a month, certainly not beyond that), the other weekends might find the car moving to places inside Bangalore for at the most 100 Kms a week. Hence anywhere between 1000 - 1500 would be might estimate. Having said that, this car will never be used in the city driving conditions during the weekdays.

2. Honestly i have absolutely no money with me I would be going for a loan for the car and may be borrow some 20 - 40K from my friend. The budget confuses me as i am relying on future prospects which i would be getting. But, practically speaking I need a car and I dont want to upgrade the car for the next 4 - 5 years and should serve a family of 4 adults (some times 5 adults) and 2 kids (currently 1, and 1 would be added next year ). So, I am thinking of stretching a bit at around 4 L +/ - 25K and buy the car which will not require an upgrade.

3. Not a must, my wife will not allow me to drive the car in 3 digits and i dont drive zip zap zoom, I would always love to drive the car enjoying the music and nature, hence performance is not top priority, on the other hand, mileage is top priority as i dont want to spend more on every top up.

Thanks for your patience to read through answers and would be ready to answer any other questions as well. I am open for comments and critics.
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Old 18th July 2009, 23:30   #68
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Originally Posted by balajird View Post
2. Honestly i have absolutely no money with me I would be going for a loan for the car and may be borrow some 20 - 40K from my friend. The budget confuses me as i am relying on future prospects which i would be getting. But, practically speaking I need a car and I dont want to upgrade the car for the next 4 - 5 years and should serve a family of 4 adults (some times 5 adults) and 2 kids (currently 1, and 1 would be added next year ). So, I am thinking of stretching a bit at around 4 L +/ - 25K and buy the car which will not require an upgrade.

3. Not a must, my wife will not allow me to drive the car in 3 digits and i dont drive zip zap zoom, I would always love to drive the car enjoying the music and nature, hence performance is not top priority, on the other hand, mileage is top priority as i dont want to spend more on every top up.
Hi balajird,
If you are going to keep the car for 5 years, I would advice you to get a new car, rather than a second hand car. Moreover you get better interest rates for new cars.
On a lighter note, in a Fusion your wife will never know that the speedo has crossed 3 digits .

~Matt.

Last edited by Matt : 18th July 2009 at 23:32.
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Old 19th July 2009, 08:56   #69
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Balaji,

For a five year ownership, it would have to be a new car than one that has already seen three or four summers - esp as the only car for a decent sized family.

Infact, I'd much rather that you look for a used Bolero or M2DI Scorp if you must always seat 6!
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Old 20th July 2009, 11:48   #70
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Thanks for the replies. @Phamilyman, its actually not 6 adults, its 4 adults (only sometimes it will be 5), my son (just 2 years old) and 1 more baby expected next year so, its not that i need to seat 6.

@Matt, thats exactly why i thought FF+ might be a good bet . I TDed the car and felt this should do the duty pretty easily.

Regarding new car Vs used car, a new FF+ costs around 8L (Diesel variant) and a second hand car which is around 2 - 3 years old might be available for 5L (hope so). Hence i thought a second hand car might be a good bet. Comments are welcome in this regard.
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Old 20th July 2009, 14:52   #71
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Originally Posted by balajird View Post
Thanks for the replies. @Phamilyman, its actually not 6 adults, its 4 adults (only sometimes it will be 5), my son (just 2 years old) and 1 more baby expected next year so, its not that i need to seat 6.
Considering you are running close to full capacity, you may (only may) want to look at a higher capacity car. And given the budget constraints, it may be a constraint.

Also not sure how fanatical you are about safety, but if you insist on getting a seatbelt on for every passenger in your car, then the safest way to carry a child (more so infant) is with a dedicated child/infant seat. This means the kid occupies almost (more than) one adult passenger space. So take that into consideration.

I admit, I have carried kids and infants in the car for short distances, without a baby seat. But when I have my own, a baby seat will come in for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by balajird View Post
@Matt, thats exactly why i thought FF+ might be a good bet . I TDed the car and felt this should do the duty pretty easily.

Regarding new car Vs used car, a new FF+ costs around 8L (Diesel variant) and a second hand car which is around 2 - 3 years old might be available for 5L (hope so). Hence i thought a second hand car might be a good bet. Comments are welcome in this regard.
Great that you are able to appreciate the Fusion. That itself is the first step in owning one. You will have to encounter a lot of negative publicity from friends, family, colleagues and even Ford Salesmen.

Now for the used part. You are in Bangalore, where cars hold value like they were gold or something. Serious. The depreciation is lowest here due to many reasons. Used cars are the most expensive in the country (as are new ones).

This applies esp. more to niche cars like Palios, Fusions and Adventures. People have the spare time, money and interest to appreciate such cars so let go of them less easily.

Any other city like Bombay or Delhi, you will get it a lot lot cheaper.

Now also do some math. Assuming you get a decent old generation FF+ABS for around 3,50,000 and a 2 year old (you will not get older than that) FF Diesel (no +, No ABS) for 5,00,000 you still pay about 50% premium.

Assume the Petrol gives a mileage of 11 in the city (15 highway) and the Diesel gives a mileage of 17 city (21 highway) do a cost calculation to figure out mow many km you will need to run to break even that 1,50,000 premium you pay for Diesel? Add to that additional financing cost (you mentioned a loan) and other factors. Will the Diesel really make sense for you?

Also regarding a used car. Well cars don't just fall apart after some time. They age gradually. And well built Fords even more gradually. Nothing stops you from running a 3 year old car for another 5 years as long as it is maintained well. Just that it will become less reliable and failures (small component) will keep happening more often. If you are prepared for that and ok with the associated down time and cost. You can pull off more than 10 years from a car easily.

And yes, if you liked the Fusion for what it is, it will definitely be better than a Scorpio or Sumo or Bolero as long as off road or on bad roads (not serious off road). It drives better, handles way way better and much more better built and put together. That said, you can't beat the seating capacity on those cars.
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Old 20th July 2009, 15:51   #72
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Excellent, Thanks Glifford. It does make sense to see the initial cost difference between petrol and Diesel and work out the running cost difference as well. I agree that I will have to put lot of effort initially to arrive at a breakeven. I will surely look in to this and will also be ready for those some niggles to be rectified. And regarding the seating capacity, the adult count is fixed and will not change, but i forgot to add the child seat, i will surely take this in to consideration and see what can i do about it.
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Old 20th July 2009, 16:02   #73
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Originally Posted by balajird View Post
Excellent, Thanks Glifford. It does make sense to see the initial cost difference between petrol and Diesel and work out the running cost difference as well.
One thing I keep saying about running cost is:

When running costs are relatively lower (to whatever else you have in comparison) you tend to use that as a justification to run it more, just because it is cheaper to run

Now this can impact your initial estimate in running cost and your outlay budget for that. This thins the savings you have actually made by choosing something with a lower running cost.

For example if your estimate for monthly running is 1000 km/month. With an (expensive) Petrol you may just manage to put in 900 because you consider it expensive (and use alternatives, a bus, train or car pool or walk) to pull out the car for everything.

If you have a (cheap) Diesel, you may end up driving a lot more just because it is cheap and hence one tends to over use it. So your 1000km/month budget becomes 1200 before you realise

This means your projected savings have diminished thus taking it even longer (financially) to recover the higher initial investment. Of course all of this is just math and cannot justify decisions made by the heart!

This is very evident in your statement below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by balajird View Post
I agree that I will have to put lot of effort initially to arrive at a breakeven.
Means you are willing to drive more and use more just to justify the lower running cost. Something you wouldn't have driven if you had a Petrol in the first place!
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Old 20th July 2009, 16:18   #74
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.....Means you are willing to drive more and use more just to justify the lower running cost. Something you wouldn't have driven if you had a Petrol in the first place!
Hahahaha, bang on Glifford, i always look for reasons to drive but now that most of the decisions have high influence of the better half, I dont think i will be trying to "justify" these things. The whole calculation is going to be arrived by sitting with my partner and looking at other expenses and feasibility. Hence, rest assured i wont be calculating according to my whims and fancies but this is going to be purely practical and feasible usage and subsequent expenses for the usage.

But, i appreciate your microscopic detailing in the suggestions which certainly helps to re-think and see if we have "really" considered all the constraints while deciding on the car and the type of car. Thanks again for that.
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Old 15th September 2010, 17:40   #75
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Default FF+ value

Glifford,
I guess it's been a long time since this thread has been active. I recently came across an used 2005 Dec FF+ which owner is quoting 3.1L (Bangalore). Is it a good deal?
How is the spare part availability now?
How is your ownership experience till now? Any regrets?

Regards,
CSR
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