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Old 6th June 2012, 17:38   #331
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Was booked to take the car in for its 70k km service the day after tomorrow, though I haven't yet completed 69k, as a preemptive measure before a long trip coming up next week. The clutch slave cylinder gave way this afternoon, so the ASC visit will happen tomorrow.
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Its on the right side. I wont mind the wait, as the blacktape is hardly conspicuous.
Still want it? Shall I ask if it's available?
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Old 6th June 2012, 17:43   #332
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Default Re: Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD

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The clutch slave cylinder gave way this afternoon,
Clutch on the floor? or hard clutch?



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Still want it? Shall I ask if it's available?
Absolutely, I was not looking for it after mentioning it to you.
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Old 6th June 2012, 21:12   #333
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Default Re: Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD

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Clutch on the floor? or hard clutch?
Clutch on the floor, hydraulic oil on the road!
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Absolutely, I was not looking for it after mentioning it to you.
Ok. Will check and pick it up if in stock.
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Old 6th June 2012, 21:17   #334
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Default Re: Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD

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Clutch on the floor, hydraulic oil on the road!
That is bad. Did it show any signs of "tata-bye bye" previously? Is the the original cylinder that came with the vehicle?
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Old 6th June 2012, 21:35   #335
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Default Re: Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD

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That is bad. Did it show any signs of "tata-bye bye" previously? Is the the original cylinder that came with the vehicle?
Nope. Just once it failed to let me change gears, I reapplied the pedal and it felt soft, the third time it went down on the floor. Checked underneath, there was oil on the road. This was near INA Market on the Barapullah Road, about 11-12 km from home, at 3:30 PM. Drove home on 1st & 2nd gears through traffic - the how of it is eminently described in sudev's thread (Emergency driving - Without clutch).

This is the new slave cylinder that was replaced just after 40k km, in May last year before our Ladakh trip.
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...a scare of clutch slave cylinder (CSC) failure in vehicles of H-4®'s period of manufacture, I thought it prudent to have the clutch attended to.

The pressure plate and CSC were replaced under warranty, while the friction plate appeared to have substantial material left (not more than 20-30% wear) and did not require replacement.
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Old 7th June 2012, 12:33   #336
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Default Re: Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD

The clutch was opened up, and it is indeed a clutch slave cylinder (CSC) failure, with oil coating the friction plate too. Interestingly, the CSC replacement is not covered under extended warranty, though the extended warranty (EW) booklet specifies that all internal oil seals of transmission and gearbox are covered under EW. However, in the exclusions section, they mention that engine, clutch and gearbox overhaul are not covered under EW - and this is the clause the ASC are using to refuse replacement of the CSC.

Including parts prices for the CSC and friction plate, plus labour, I am looking at a bill of approximately 11,500 INR for just the clutch repair job - besides the cost of routine service and oil change.

Will update once done.

Edit: WIP pics added...

Bell housing & gearbox down
Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD-3333.jpg

Oil marks
Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD-2222.jpg

Oil-soaked clutch (friction) plate
Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD-1111.jpg

Adequate material still remaining on friction plate after 68.5k km
Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD-4444.jpg

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 7th June 2012 at 12:50.
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Old 7th June 2012, 12:37   #337
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Default Re: Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD

Infact on Marengo, they did a proactive change of the master and slave cylinders, at 36.5k. I am not happy with the clutch feel now. It does not feel progressively linear as before. But knowing the mechanics and even the customer service manager from this are, I dont think they will be able to find something amiss.
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Old 7th June 2012, 12:49   #338
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Default Re: Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD

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...did a proactive change of the master and slave cylinders, at 36.5k.
Hmm... do whatever has to be done before the 50k km mark, else I am told M&M will ***on principle*** not honour any warranty claims related to clutch at all - despite the clause of covering all internal oil seals of gearbox and transmission.
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Old 7th June 2012, 15:51   #339
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Default Re: Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD

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... However, in the exclusions section, they mention that engine, clutch and gearbox overhaul are not covered under EW - and this is the clause the ASC are using to refuse replacement of the CSC...
Doc, am I missing anything here. Why would one go for EW if engine and GB overhaul is not covered during EW period/ km's? I mean if needed to be done, these would be the most expensive jobs in a car, and failure of engine/ GB can not be termed as normal wear and tear by any stretch of imagination.
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Old 7th June 2012, 16:17   #340
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Default Re: Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD

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Doc, am I missing anything here.
You're not expected to be missing what I missed. I read the inclusions, and was happy with what that covered. Never read the exclusions until now - and hence an unnecessary heartache is the result. M&M's policy on extended warranty sucks.
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Old 8th June 2012, 09:58   #341
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Default Re: Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD

Had the most tiresome time yesterday, with a series of irritants and botch-ups during H-4®'s service and clutch repair.

It was found that the clutch slave cylinder (CSC) had leaked, and the clutch friction plate was soaked with hydraulic oil, requiring replacement of both these parts. This is just 28000 km after the CSC was earlier replaced under warranty in May 2011. Since M&M is well aware that this is an unusually highly failure-prone component, the issue should have been taken care of even under extended warranty. However, Koncept refused to honour warranty, and I was forced to pay for both parts, whereas, as per terms of the EW (i.e. all internal oil seals of transmission and gearbox are included and covered under EW), the slave cylinder leakage should have been acknowledged as an internal oil seal failure and replaced free of cost (the friction plate being damaged due to oil leakage, a partial cost should have been recovered from me).

In addition, Koncept unfairly charged me Rs.4000 plus taxes as labour charge for the job done, whereas the labour charges list displayed outside the service centre mentions the cost of CSC replacement for Scorpios, Xylos and Boleros to be Rs.500 (see pic - item no. 38, highlighted). On the other hand, a complete clutch overhaul (item no. 46 on the pic, highlighted) is understood to mean that repairs would be also carried out to clutch components such as the master cylinder, hydraulic lines, replacement of pressure plate and flywheel + ring gear etc. - none of these parts were opened or required repairing on my vehicle. In my opinion, this is downright cheating.

Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD-labour-charge.jpg

The rubber bush on the lower end of the front right shock absorber was worn out, and I was asked to replace the complete shock absorber unit for a cost of about Rs.2000, since bushes are not available with the service centre. This is ridiculous, since the bush can be easily replaced at nominal cost, whereas the shock absorber unit continues to function perfectly fine. Does M&M propose to replace my complete suspension the next time that a suspension bush wears out? And bill me for suspension overhaul? Now I am seriously worried.

A service advisor comes and makes himself at home in the owner's lounge, with his friend, chatting loudly, flipping TV channels on full volume, and to make sure I leave the air-conditioned comfort of the room, passing wind!

At the time of delivery, a non-working brake light bulb was still not replaced, despite my notifying the SA as well as 3 more people including an electrician checking the operation of the lights etc. of my vehicle. A rusty bolt was used to replace a bolt from the air filter box which was lost during service, while checking and cleaning the air filter. And the final nail in the coffin when I lost my temper? The vehicle was delivered to me with 4wd engaged in 4H mode - I do not know how long the vehicle may have been driven in 4wd mode on tarmac, and it is likely to have been taken out for the test drive with 4wd engaged. Who would be responsible for any resultant transmission wind-up damage due to such negligence? Obviously not M&M or Koncept, because both appear to find it very convenient to shirk responsibility when it comes to warranty claims by customers.

Have sent an email explaining the issues to M&M customer care, but I do not expect any redress or action, apart from polite phone calls and emails.

I have lost confidence in M&M as a customer-friendly company. When a critical component like the CSC is known to fail frequently and leave customers stranded, M&M should, as a goodwill gesture, provide replacement of such faulty parts free of cost & labour charges, whether or not the vehicle is covered under warranty. In addition, the poor quality of service done this time by Koncept Okhla is in stark contrast to their earlier work which I have appreciated.

I don't suppose I'll go back to Koncept Okhla, unless they (and M&M) do something drastic enough to win back my confidence. I am sure I am equally capable of taking care of my vehicle without sham extended warranty covers, fraudulent billing, inept handling of my vehicle by incompetent people on the shop floor and half-done jobs. I can live with the botheration of poorly designed parts and components that keep failing prematurely, but at least I shall not lose a good night's sleep while worrying that someone at M&M or it's authorized service centre is making false promises and trying to cheat me. My FNG can provide much better service support at much lower cost.
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Old 8th June 2012, 10:16   #342
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Default Re: Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD

SST, time to tweet this kind of treatment to the top honcho at M&M. Dont take this without putting up a fight.
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Old 8th June 2012, 10:24   #343
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Default Re: Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD

Sorry to hear your travails with M&M, reminds me of my bike servicing days when I felt I get conned by the dealer.

Charging you 4k plus for labor is totally uncalled for by the dealer, since they themselves put up the labor rate charts. I say if you do not get a reply from M&M, try M&M on twitter or other social network site. Of course your issue may or may not be redressed, but at least in the future they won’t be so lopsided attitude with customers to whom they have sold a million rupees car.
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Old 8th June 2012, 10:28   #344
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Default Re: Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD

This is fraud pure and simple. The clutch failure is due to oil leakage, which is covered under EW. I mean how can you have internal oil seal failure without clutch failure. Try and escalate this to Mahindra..
I always had the impression that scorpio reliability surpasses safari by a huge margin, and cost of upkeep is also less, but looking at experiences of lots of members here, it appears, since the mHawk, Mahindra quality has indeed fallen. The old Crde and DI scorpios used to be true workhorses

Last edited by tsk1979 : 8th June 2012 at 10:32.
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Old 8th June 2012, 10:52   #345
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Default Re: Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD

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...looking at experiences of lots of members here, it appears, since the mHawk, Mahindra quality has indeed fallen.
IMO the overall quality of the mHawk is acceptable at that price point, but the CSC failure is a known Achilles' heel that someone in their R&D centre goofed up on. 3 years down the line, even with design changes, this is one critical component that keeps failing. The Koncept SA reported that 1-2 such cases come in on a daily basis.
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