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Old 29th November 2012, 19:52   #376
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Default Re: Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD

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Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
Correct me if I am wrong, but if speedo overreads, odo will also overread, isn't it? After all, there is only 1 sensor - for speed, and distance is a derived quantity. The percentage of error should also be the same for both!
Actually, no.
In my Jazz, the speedo always overestimates by about 7-8%, but the odo is spot on - no error whatsoever. And I feel that is how it should be for all cars.
There must be one sensor, and I think it does its job fine - the error is programmed by the manufacturers. The speedo overestimate is to reduce cases of overspeeding, and I do not have any problem with that, but odo overestimation means you get the distances wrong, which I do not like.
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Old 29th November 2012, 20:26   #377
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Default Re: Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD

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Originally Posted by akp View Post
the error is programmed by the manufacturers. The speedo overestimate is to reduce cases of overspeeding
OK, thanks.
Did you read this somewhere in the owner manual or such?
I read in one of the autocarindia reviews some years ago, that +/-4% error in speedo/odo is allowed by ARAI so all manufacturers set +4% so that FE figures become a bit more impressive. Not sure if this is true though.
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Old 29th November 2012, 21:09   #378
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Default Re: Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD

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Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
OK, thanks.
Did you read this somewhere in the owner manual or such?
No - that's my conclusion reading various threads on odo/speedo. They can not possibly mention it in the manuals, because then everyone would know about the speedo error for example and it would defeat the purpose. Of course, most of us in this forum know about it, but that's just a tiny fraction of automobile users on Indian roads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
I read in one of the autocarindia reviews some years ago, that +/-4% error in speedo/odo is allowed by ARAI so all manufacturers set +4% so that FE figures become a bit more impressive. Not sure if this is true though.
Again, I do not know for sure, but my guess is (not a blind guess, but reading about various `comments/speculations' in various threads and checking for their reasonability): for speedo, there is probably a regulation that one has to overestimate it (or ensure that speedo does not give a lower reading than the actual speed under any reasonable circumstance (tyre upsize etc.). As for odo, ARAI allows some margin of error, for whatever reason (again one reason I can immediately think of is upsizing/downsizing of tyres), but most manufacturers misuse it (by overestimating even with specified size of tyres) to inflate the FE figures.
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Old 4th December 2012, 22:41   #379
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Default Re: A journey spanning 3 years and 77,777 km

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Thanks.

Regarding the points raised by you:
1. Rubber hoses covering the power window wires go to pieces quite soon. Quality check needed by M&M!
True. Even mine are shot. Quick fix is to wrap electrical insulation tape over it, since replacing them is a long task involving removal of door pads.

2. Every door has a small cylindrical rubber stopper [with threads] at the bottom corner. These can come loose and fall off [typically after a wash and wipe], thereby mis-aligning the door setting.
Those fell off a long time ago, but mercifully I've not had door misalignment or rattles till now. Easily replaceable, but ASCs don't stock it. You've got to take a sample and search at the spares shops.

3. The power windows tend to have a mind of their own if they are not operated once a while.
Nothing happened yet, touch wood.

4. Fogging up of headlights even though there's no obvious damage or crack to it.
Not the headlights, but I've had my foglights changed once due to fogging (rather ironical, isn't it? ). I think it was an issue with an older batch of lights.

One more irritant that I just remembered - the proneness of the extended hub caps (covering the ALH) to hit kerbs and crack. I've managed to do this 3 times in 3 years despite all care (the third time was this morning! )
My car is 22 months old now. Driven just 10,800 KM. Rear driver side door doesn't open, front passenger side power window does not function, some wag scratched it with a key or something on the sides.
A strange dragging and rattling sound comes from the front axles. but I had bought a Mahindra and not a Toyota and I know it.

Will get these fixed in warranty repairs.

My personal experience says Castrol CRB is the best engine oil for Diesel engines and commonly available. I want this in my car not the Mahindra Maxmile. Wonder if the stealership service centre will agree. Need time to go there and speak with the service manager in no uncertan terms to avoid a rip off. I will only pay for labour ( 2nd service is free ) filters and thats it. No oil or fluid is topped up in 10,000 K service no payment for consumabales dry wash additives sealant. coating and the rubbish.
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Old 8th December 2012, 11:49   #380
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Default Re: Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD

80,000 km service done yesterday. A lot of things to be done as a matter of routine, which pushed up the bill to Rs.12,660.

Taken care of under warranty:
  • The left rear window winder motor, worth ~Rs.2500 (I was charged around Rs.30 for a set of 6 pop rivets to install the motor!)
  • The clock spring in the steering, worth ~Rs.2000 (the steering was squeaking on turning it gently). I was charged Rs.145 for an item called the E-ring clip.
Paid for, not part of routine service:
  • Clutch master cylinder (Rs.1849 plus taxes), and removal and refitting charges of Rs.650+taxes.
    Why change? The clutch pedal was squeaking - turned out the noise was from the master cylinder. The oil in the reservoir had also turned dark and muddy at the bottom, indicating the bucket was giving up. M&M ASC does not have a rubber kit for the cylinder (I don't know if there is such a kit in the market at all), so the whole master cylinder was replaced. I personally checked and verified, and authorized the change, since I would hate to be held up on the road with a clutch oil leakage again!
  • Clutch pedal clevis pin (~Rs.18)
  • Bushes of front stabiliser bar and rear links (upper) (~Rs.1000 plus labour charges Rs.750, plus taxes
  • Pedal pad cover for B&C pedals, ~Rs.52
Routine service, mainly fluid and filter replacements
  • Gear oil (main GB only, not TC), ~Rs.428
  • Brake and clutch oil, 500 ml, ~Rs.198
  • Rear diff oil, Rs.550
  • Maximile coolant, 8 litres, Rs.1408
  • Fuel filter cartridge, ~Rs.1670
  • Foam air cleaner, ~Rs.495
  • Wheel alignment, Rs.590. Tyres look good to last for another 15k-20k km. Alignment technician expressed surprise at the fact that they have lasted as well as they did.
The usual argument ensued at billing, over a charge of ~Rs.112 for windshield washer fluid, especially since the SA was instructed not to add those extras (my usual instructions when giving in the car). The charge was reversed, but it took them half an hour to do it.

Time of entry into workshop: 8:30 am (but SA received the car at 9:15 am). Time of departure: 5:45 pm.

Spending the day there meant all the work was done within the day, and I got to check and confirm each job was done to my satisfaction.

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 8th December 2012 at 11:50.
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Old 8th December 2012, 11:58   #381
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Default Re: Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD

I noticed that the service costs for the Scorpio are on the higher side. Now that my Scorpio has done 73K, I skip the silly 5K services which are just inspect that inspect this etc. I take it only for the major service which requires repalcement of fluids etc. So far, not had any issues with warranty claims.
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Old 8th December 2012, 19:18   #382
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Default Re: Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD

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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
I noticed that the service costs for the Scorpio are on the higher side.
Don't really know about that, but my overall costing has been in the region of Rs.1.5-Rs.1.75 per km, including services, accessories (mainly tools and minor stuff like perfumes etc.) and insurance. Major expenses will naturally crop up once the miles pile up!
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Old 15th February 2013, 20:27   #383
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Default Re: Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD

85,000 km service

Some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue. And some days, the statue comes alive in desperation and grabs hold of the pigeon.

Routine service with engine oil change was due today, all the major work had been done at the 80k km service. Plus a few minor glitches that existed from the last service, which I had left to be attended to at the next service.

I watched as the mechanic opened up my brakes for a check - though there were no complaints. So he cleaned up the drums and calipers, and put everything back together.
- Any problems with the caliper pins? Are they running smooth?

- Nahin, Sir, they're moving fine. Nothing required to be done.

I checked and verified the same myself, and by midday the oil change and top-ups etc. were done. All that was left, was to re-check the alignment (I had WA done the last time, but the car had kept pulling ever so slightly to the left for the last 20k km or more). And the clockspring that was replaced the previous time, was not set straight, so the indicator stalk would auto-return too soon on one side, and too late on the other.

The alignment guy took a careful history of how the pulling happened (reminded me of our college classes in medical history taking in some vague way ), and set about inserting a 4th shim to adjust the kingpin inclination on the left side (3 had been installed much earlier). Test drive, and problem not solved. Swapped the front tyres, no improvement. So back to the aligner again, and I wanted to check the alignment values myself. Uh-oh - now the tyres were completely cockeyed. This could not have happened if the alignment had been set properly the last time. Well, at least, I haven't worn out my tyres, and the alignment has been set properly this time.

Someone was tinkering with the clockspring without knowing what he was doing, and the SA came along to tell me that we can save a bit of time by getting the bill ready in the meanwhile. Fair enough. And with a big smile and flourish, he presented me with a bill of Rs.69xx.

Now the sum itself is not frightening. What he had billed me for was, though. There was an amount of Rs.600-odd for caliper pin change/greasing (and there I had been standing there, and had verified that my caliper pins were doing fine!). Another 600-odd for some O-ring (and the SA was at a loss to explain where such an O-ring was required), plus another 600-odd for something called an E-ring clip (again, no idea where that was supposed to fit). To add insult to injury, the SA had the cheek to mention that these are part of routine service schedule. Needless to say, the statue had taken enough excreta from the pigeon, and came alive to grab hold of the pigeon by the unmentionables.

The GM received a phone call. GM caught hold of pigeon. Pigeon squirmed very hard to escape. And the statue went back to playing possum, after mentioning that this was absolutely unexpected!

The clockspring needed a technical specialist to set right (it's a 5-minute job that an electrician could not figure out!). Alignment was done to my satisfaction (free of cost, since the job had not been carried out properly the last time), car washed and delivered. The bill came to Rs.4845, and I handed in my credit card. Payment done, I casually went through the bill again, and there was another surprise waiting.

Koncept Auto (as also all other Mahindra ASCs across India) is having a mega service camp from 18th to 24th February, with customers being offered 15% discount on labour, 10% on accessories and 5% on spare parts. Since I didn't foresee finding some time to come in for service next week, the GM had graciously offered to give me those discounts for the present service. He had specifically written it out on the back of the job card. Yet, the bill did not reflect the discount. And I had paid up already. Back to GM - Sir, your pen has lost its power. Will you throw that pen away please? Pigeon almost gets shot this time.

The bill was adjusted to read Rs.4366, but the surplus amount could not be refunded since payment was through credit card. My account with Koncept now has a credit balance of Rs.479, to be adjusted at the next service.

About to leave, I now discover that after tyre swap, the L-5 (relearning of TPMS) that I had asked for, was not done. I reverse up into the spot where the tyre inflator is, and start off by doing L-5 on my own. I am blocking someone's way, but I couldn't care less. Someone tries to drive off the car to clear the spot while I am still completing the sequence, and gets a mouthful. All it takes is 5 minutes, and then I am done.

On the way back home, I find the steering wheel has not been centered. Once parked at home, it takes another 3 minutes to fix that. It's 5 pm, while I had originally hoped to be back home for lunch!

The patience and presence of mind of the GM/CEO of Koncept (as he is designated), Mr Tribhuban Singh, deserves applause and thanks - except for him taking care of issues quickly, I may well have had a running fight with Koncept at every service visit. Going to another service centre is easy, but a known devil is better than an unknown one - and Koncept's service centre personnel generally know how nasty a devil I am!

5k km of peace again.

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 15th February 2013 at 20:29.
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Old 15th February 2013, 21:35   #384
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Default Re: Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD

Isn't it too short a service interval? And I believe your daily commute is of ~75 kms. Factor in a bit of touring & it seems you visit the ASC almost every 45 days?
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Old 15th February 2013, 21:59   #385
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Default Re: Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD

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Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
Isn't it too short a service interval? And I believe your daily commute is of ~75 kms. Factor in a bit of touring & it seems you visit the ASC almost every 45 days?
Once in 2-3 months on an average. 5k km is the recommended service interval for the Scorpio.

The previous service dates were 7/12/12, 31/8/12, 7/6/12, 6/4/12 - and 16/3/12 before that (the shortest interval - had been to CCU on an extended trip then). My daily commute has reduced somewhat since I started car-pooling with a colleague from December 2011, and it's ~150km twice or thrice a week. I try to use the Swift for the commute too, once a week or once every alternate week - but then that's a petrol car.
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Old 16th February 2013, 08:46   #386
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Default Re: Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
85,000 km service

Some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue. And some days, the statue comes alive in desperation and grabs hold of the pigeon.

The patience and presence of mind of the GM/CEO of Koncept (as he is designated), Mr Tribhuban Singh, deserves applause and thanks - except for him taking care of issues quickly, I may well have had a running fight with Koncept at every service visit.
What if you're a statute who doesn't know the GM? Is there any other option except actually grabbing the pigeon(s) by the unmentionables?
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Old 16th February 2013, 09:02   #387
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Default Re: Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD

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Originally Posted by predatorwheelz View Post
What if you're a statute who doesn't know the GM? Is there any other option except actually grabbing the pigeon(s) by the unmentionables?
Good question. Will discuss other options at the meet this evening!
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Old 5th April 2013, 22:02   #388
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Default Re: Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD

This is going to be a long report...

The 90,000-km service was done today at 91,078 km. Nothing needed to be done really, except a routine check, tighten & wash. However, an odd 'krrrrrrrrrrr' rattle-of-a-rattlesnake kind of noise had been emanating from somewhere behind the dashboard / engine bay on the right side, especially when the car was warmed through, and when running at ~3000RPM. This was happening on my way back to Delhi last week, and I was a little worried - the turbo is located somewhere there, and I didn't want that to have any issues just when my extended warranty is almost due to expire. Irritating bit was, the sound wouldn't replicate itself on a not-so-warm engine, and not at lower RPMs in the city.

In the event, after a 40-km TD on the Faridabad-Gurgaon highway, the sound was narrowed down to the pair of copper heater pipes behind the dashboard rattling against each other; these have no insulation/cladding. The technical specialist (a knowledgeable gent called Darshan) tied up one of the pipes with a cord, and the rattling promptly disappeared. Seems like this is a known issue with the Scorpio, though the rattling is more easily diagnosable in other cars. Turbo et al. are just fine.

Back at the service centre, the pipes were readjusted to prevent them from rattling. A squeaky noise from the steering joint was taken care of by oiling and tightening, a general checkup and tightening of the suspension and bodywork was done - and I decided to chuck out all the door switches and replace them with new ones (Rs.47.xx + taxes for each), because every once in a while, one or the other of them would stop working (almost locked myself out of the car because of this, once). All told, a total expense of Rs.2522 bought a lot of peace of mind after the rattling and squeaking disappeared - and a nice a clean car after the trip.

The trip - consisting of a total run of 4700 km - happened between 20-29 March.
1. A non-stop 24+ -hour drive to Pune (1650 km) on 20-21 March.
2. Another non-stop 15-hour 1050-km drive from Pune to Rajkot on 25-26 March, continuing to Sasan Gir (160 km) the same morning, after a breakfast break at a friend's place.
3. 23-hour drive back to Delhi from Sasan Gir (1365 km) on 28-29 March.

Details of the Gir Forest part of the trip can be found here (Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) Roadtrip: Reminiscences of Gir Forest). The Pune visit was family-and-friends-oriented, and not much to write about.

Some of the odometer landmarks crossed during the trip...
Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD-odo88888.jpg


Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD-dsc00661k300.jpg


Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD-odo90909k300.jpg

I lost 2 tyres (both OE) during this trip. The first one was at Pune. I'd run out of repair plugs, and wanted a puncture fixed, so went to a roadside tyrewallah. Rs.60 and a plug later, the tyre suddenly developed a weird bulge on one side of the tread surface.

Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD-dsc03978k300.jpg

Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD-dsc03984k300.jpg

Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD-dsc03986k300.jpg

Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD-dsc03982k300.jpg

Obviously, I'd lost this tyre. But I didn't quite understand why this happened. So I shot off an email on a Friday evening to Bridgestone Pune, asking them to help. Wonder of wonders (and I am seriously impressed with Bridgestone's customer-friendliness), I get a call on Monday morning at 9am, asking me to come over so they can take a look at what's wrong.

The issue was ply separation. The nail went in obliquely, and the fellow plugged the leak vertically. Air pressure and flexing of the shoulder, led to the air getting in between the tread and the belting, separating out the bond - and this was the result. My tyre was dated 3609, so warranty didn't apply anyway (despite a lot of tread still being there), and I bought a similar Dueler HT for Rs.7300.

The second tyre I lost was during our return journey, about an hour out of Rajkot, heading to Ahmedabad. A metal protrusion on a culvert got the rear right tyre. I noticed the metal bit and dodged, the front tyre missed, and the rear tyre deflated with a boom. It was flat in 10 seconds, but by that time the TPMS had already put up its alert, and I had pulled over and stopped - thus saving the TPMS sender unit from self-destructing.

Take a look at the hole that was punched through-and through in the middle of the tread.
Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD-dsc00652k300.jpg

Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD-dsc00653k300.jpg

Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD-dsc00657k300.jpg

The nearest I could hope to find a decent tyre shop was at Ahmedabad, and I found one finally. Unfortunately, he didn't have Bridgestones in stock, but has Continental CrossContacts, Apollo Hawkz, and a new tyre I'd never heard of before - something called the Ceat Czar HT. He offered the Ceat at Rs.6000, it looked pretty okay, and Ceat is offering an unconditional replacement warranty (even due to accidental damage) up to 2-years / 50% tread wear. I didn't have the energy to hunt around for an outlet stocking Bridgestones, I had another 950 km to get home, and I did need a spare tyre for the drive through the night - it was already past 6pm at Ahmedabad.

So I am running on 3 old Dueler HTs and one brand new one, with a brand new spare Ceat Czar HT tyre now. Anybody has any idea about how good / bad the Ceat Czar HT is? Your opinions would be welcome.

Incidentally, during the previous service, it was the first time that I had Maximile FEO inside my engine. The container doesn't mention anything about the grade of the oil, but it sure is a lot less viscous than the older Maximile. My guess is, the lower viscosity lends to the fuel efficient nature of the oil - my FE jumped up by 0.75-0.8 km/litre. If anyone knows the viscosity grade of FEO, please let me know.
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Old 13th July 2013, 23:18   #389
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Default Re: Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD

The 95,000 km service happened today. Expected it to be a quick and routine service, but a check revealed that both the rear wheel cylinders were weeping brake oil.

Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD-rwcleft.jpg

Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD-rwcright.jpg

The WCs were reasonably priced at around Rs.900 apiece including taxes, but what came as a shocker was that the labour charges for replacing the wheel cylinders is a whopping Rs.990 plus service tax - or over Rs.1100 for 15-20 minutes of work!

Add to this the cost of brake oil and the routine service, and the total bill came up to Rs.5550. Thankfully the job was completed and I was on my way back home by 2 PM.

One of the headlight bulbs got a fused low beam filament just 2 days ago. Picked up a pair of Philips Xtreme Vision 100% bulbs for Rs.1000 - one was fitted, and the other remains as a spare.

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 13th July 2013 at 23:19.
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Old 14th July 2013, 10:27   #390
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Default Re: Hawk-On-Fours® (H-4®) with a tail - Scorpio mHawk 4WD

Good catch...a weeping WC can cause havoc if it slips under inspection radar.

On other note I would put the new tyre in position that gives max wear - usually front right.
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