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Old 22nd March 2010, 10:18   #16
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Default Pics of the car

Thats my year 2000 Ford 1.6 CLXi. I am sure many will be interested in the Palio 1.6 GTX next to my car. This one came up in the classified of Times of India on December 24th, 2009. Vikram (The dude in the shades) saw this classified & ignored it completely. I happened to stroll by his house & he told me about it over a cuppa coffee. I told him we should check it out & that there was no harm. If the car was bad we can let it go. The car turned out to be beautiful & after a drive I told Vikram to rob a bank if he has to buy it. So this 8 years old Fiat now belongs to Vikram. Its a gem of a car.
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Old 22nd March 2010, 13:17   #17
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Default Total Expenses & Issues so far

Service Cost Break Up

This post should give users an idea about the cost of various parts a Ford Ikon might require over an period of time. I needed to replace all the things listed below.

This was the first time my Ford went for a service after I took ownership of the car. There were several components, parts that needed replacement. All costs include Tax. Names of Components/Parts are exactly how they are mentioned in the Repair Invoice.

First Account at Metro Ford, Lingarajapuram, Bangalore. Odo Reading 58222kms

Super DOT4 Brake Fluid@Rs. 170 for 500ml

Ignition Switch@Rs. 508

Cap Oil Filler@Rs. 332

Cover Opening@Rs. 27 (In Cabin ECU Socket Slot Cover)

Filter Fuel@Rs. 139

Degas Bottle@Rs. 865 (I am guessing this is the Coolant Reservoir as the service engineer recommended replacing due to age & it has a history of bursting)

Mesh Filter@Rs. 120

Battery Ikon Pet@rs. 1920 (New Motor Craft car battery & surprisingly cheap. Never expected this being a brand that is owned by the Ford Motor Company)

Wash Fluid Pouch@Rs. 49 (Windscreen Washer Fluid)

Filter Oil SOHC@Rs. 81 (Some thing such as the Oil Filter are very cheap for the Ikon)

Cylinder Brake (Single)@Rs. 329 (One Rear Brake cylinder required replacement)

Cluster Bezel Foam@Rs. 103 (For the Instrument Cluster)

Bulb 12V/21A@Rs. 51

Axle Metallic HCV@Rs. 594 (Don't quite recall what this is)

Coolant GRN IKN FST@ Rs. 969 (I am guessing this is engine coolant fluid)

Brake Pad Ikon@Rs. 1442

Rotor Assembly@Rs. 1805 (A Pair of Front Disc Brake Rotors)

Bulb Type P21W 12V 2@Rs. 115 (2 Bulbs)

Oil (Bharat) Engine Oil@Rs. 699 (Quantity says 4.6. Must be 4.6litres)

Clip@Rs. 23 (Don't recall what this was for)

Upholstery Foam Cleaning@Rs. 1542

Waxoyl Engine Protection@Rs. 297

LABOR FOR ALL OF THE ABOVE

Replace Coolant Reservoir Tank@Rs. 150

20000km Service@Rs. 900

Disc Pads - Front - Remove & Install Both Sides@Rs. 180

Cylinder - Rear Wheel - Remove & Install@Rs. 240

Cooling System Back Flush@Rs. 120

Battery - Remove & Install@Rs. 90

Bezel - Instrument Cluster - Remove & Install@Rs. 90

Key - Ignition Switch - Remove & Install@Rs. 90

Water Valve - Heater - Remove & Install @Rs. 180

Consumables@Rs. 225

Replace Both Side Rotors@Rs. 350

=========================================

My next Account at Ford happened in no time. At 58377Kms to be precise. I was warned about a Thermostat Leak at the joint during the first service. They had re sealed it but it finally went down to replacing the unit & asked me to keep an eye on it. The car went back to Metro Ford, Lingarapuram. There was no car radio antenna & the cooling system thermostat developed a small leak.

Base Antenna@Rs. 373 (Being CLXi variant the car had no antenna installation)

Rod Antenna@Rs. 522

Gasket for Thermostat@Rs. 549

Connection Water Out@Rs. 1226 (This is the Thermostat Unit)

LABOR

Radio Antenna@Rs. 60

Thermostat Over Haul@Rs. 350

Battery Terminal Packs Up

Went for a little shopping & after getting back in the car I tried to crank it & all I heard was a click. The electrical system was dead. Popped the hood & checked the battery terminals & this lead to the discovery of a lose negative terminal. It was fixed firm enough to the battery terminal but I guess it was not making good contact to close the circuit. A few minutes spent with this & I finally managed to start the car & went straight to Ford.

Odo Reading at 58634Kms

Cable Assembly@Rs. 591 (Negative Cable assembly from Battery Terminal to engine)

LABOR

Cable - Battery to starter motor solenoid - remove & install@Rs. 150

Spark Plug Replacement

No particular reason for doing this. Just did it as the car was running on some after market NGK Plus and I had no idea how old they were. The car was running without any issues. I just wanted them replaced. Odo@60679Kms

4 New Stock Spark Plugs@Rs. 274

LABOR@Rs. 240

Air Conditioning Divertor Valve Packs Up

Was dropping my wife in the early hours of the morning to the Airport. The Air Conditioning has never been an issue with this car so it started freezing inside. I moved the Thermostat Control to the start point of warm air and it helped but a while later it started blowing only freezing cold air which is when I turned the knob a little more to the warmer setting (Mid way) & nothing happened. It was getting very uncomfortable & I then decided to turn the knob all the way to full hot air & that was it. The valve got stuck & all I was getting was a blast of hot air. Turning the Thermostat knob back to cold made no difference. Had to drive back home with lowered windows. I tried fiddling with the Thermostat knob a few hours later but nothing happened.

Took the car to Metro Ford, Lingarajpuram & they offered a temporary solution as nobody uses the Warm/Hot Air Setting during summer months & this years Bangalore summer is at its best. They basically loop the nozzles in the engine bay that allows engine coolant to flow into the HVAC (Heating Ventilation & Air Conditioning System) and seal off the pipes coming from the Engine Cooling System Thermostat. This process will make the HVAC Thermostat Control Useless. I decided against this & got the AC Divertor Valve Replaced. This is THE most common part that fails on a Ford Ikon & even on GM cars.

Odo Reading@61261

Valve AC@Rs.2066

Labor@Rs.300

Note from the Team-BHP Support Team : Please use the "edit" button if posting within 20 minutes of the first post, instead of creating another back-to-back post.

Last edited by Technocrat : 22nd March 2010 at 14:23. Reason: Please read the note in your post carefully, thanks
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Old 22nd March 2010, 14:14   #18
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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
Was dropping my wife in the early hours of the morning to the Airport. The Air Conditioning has never been an issue with this car so it started freezing inside. I moved the Thermostat Control to the start point of warm air and it helped but a while later it started blowing only freezing cold air which is when I turned the knob a little more to the warmer setting (Mid way) & nothing happened. It was getting very uncomfortable & I then decided to turn the knob all the way to full hot air & that was it. The valve got stuck & all I was getting was a blast of hot air. Turning the Thermostat knob back to cold made no difference. Had to drive back home with lowered windows. I tried fiddling with the Thermostat knob a few hours later but nothing happened.

Took the car to Metro Ford, Lingarajpuram & they offered a temporary solution as nobody uses the Warm/Hot Air Setting during summer months & this years Bangalore summer is at its best. They basically loop the nozzles in the engine bay that allows engine coolant to flow into the HVAC (Heating Ventilation & Air Conditioning System) and seal off the pipes coming from the Engine Cooling System Thermostat. This process will make the HVAC Thermostat Control Useless. I decided against this & got the AC Divertor Valve Replaced. This is THE most common part that fails on a Ford Ikon & even on GM cars.

Odo Reading@61261

Valve AC@Rs.2066

Labor@Rs.300
Ditto.. Had the same problem on the Rally sport and they made the thermostat dis-functional.
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Old 22nd March 2010, 14:32   #19
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The same divertor valve was also turned dysfunctional on my Ikon after 3 years of usage, and i asked them to bypass the HVAC. I wonder why they dont do anything about it, considering its being happening with regularity on almost all Ikons i know of!
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Old 23rd March 2010, 00:09   #20
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Yupp. Don't know what Ford have been doing for the last 10 years with the same design. I am actually going to try and get that faulty Divertor Valve (Now replaced by a new one but Metro Ford always returns the replaced part) fixed by someone I know who can handle such things and then ask him what is defective about the design.

The Manager of Metro Ford, Lingarapuram admits without one bit of hesitation about this part thats probably the most common fault on the Ikon. He is also out of options as Ford India don't do anything about it.

I was lucky as this was the first time the Divertor Valve was replaced on my car. The original one lasted 10 Years and a little over 61000km. Something thats unheard off on the Ikon.
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Old 23rd March 2010, 14:23   #21
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Congrats on the 1.6 Sandeep, its a dream to drive. Most of my friends have faced the divertor Valve issue and though small, its irritating. Thankfully, I have not had to had it replaced..yet, in my almost 5 year old Flair, though I did have the blower throwing hot air at me a couple of times. Cant remember the last time i faced the issue though

Wish you a wonderful time with the Ikon.
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Old 24th March 2010, 13:27   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
Valve AC@Rs.2066
This used to be some 3K+ 2 years ago. I had it replaced 3 times during the first 3+ years in my 2005 1.6 Nxt, under warranty. It gave up again and then I got it shorted, so no heater now. Not sure if they have fixed this in the new Ikons!

Completely agree with other observations. Mine is still running with stock clutch and tires Brakes are ok for <100kmph only.
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Old 24th March 2010, 23:43   #23
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Mine is still running with stock clutch and tires Brakes are ok for <100kmph only.
The clutch can last. All depends on how the car has been driven but tires are an absolute No No for so many years. They need to go even if the thread is intact.

My brakes are a nightmare. The wheels don't even lock up even If I slam the brakes with full pedal pressure at speeds as low as 60Kmph. This inspite of getting a near complete over haul done on the system.
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Old 25th March 2010, 07:34   #24
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Hi Sandeep, in spite of getting my brake pads replaced, I had my heart in my mouth on the Bangalore Mangalore highway 4 years ago. I was doing around 70 kmph on the highway, when a car (another Ikon!) suddenly put its nose in to join the highway (from a service road), without any warning. I slammed the brakes with all my might. But it took a really agonising length of time (and distance) for my car to stop fully. It came to rest nose to nose with the other Ikon, with just a couple of inches to spare. This left me thoroughly shaken up. After this, I give a liberal braking margin for my Ikon.

The bad brakes of the Ikon meant that I got used to my Scorpio (2004 model) very easily . Both these vehicles have a reputation for lazy braking, IMO !
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Old 25th March 2010, 16:49   #25
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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
The clutch can last. All depends on how the car has been driven but tires are an absolute No No for so many years. They need to go even if the thread is intact.
Clutch is ~72000km old and I think this is really great. For tires I fully agree. But I'm not doing >80kmph (90% < 60kmph) and not using the car much now. But its time to either sell it off or keep it with the tires changed.
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Old 25th March 2010, 17:05   #26
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50000 kms and I am going to give my Ikon for a suspension overhaul/replacement after the whole front suspension assembly starting creaking and groaning. The tyres are going to be changed as well. The right front has lost a lot of treading and I guess I am the culprit here as I never once had a wheel alignment/balancing in my 5.5 years of ownership due to which the car moves to the right when no steering is applied. The heater stopped working years ago and the usual 'jugaad' of having just the AC working is present even in My Ikon. Clutch and breaking still fine. But never had to complain about this in Mumbai. At speeds above 80 I am getting a drumming sound. Could be a faulty bearing but am not sure. Gurus any clues to this? Also could any one tell me about the interval when the timing belt needs to be replaced?
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Old 29th March 2010, 19:03   #27
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Originally Posted by sammyboy View Post
Congrats on the 1.6 Sandeep, its a dream to drive. Most of my friends have faced the divertor Valve issue...

Wish you a wonderful time with the Ikon.
Thanks sammyboy. I just love this car to the hilt. It sure has a very serious defect with the braking system. I am trying to find ways to correct this problem. I was recommended Allied Brake Rotors (USA) by a renowned FNG who has the sources to import it for me, fit it with no mechanical alteration & it would set me back by around Rs. 8000. I am seriously thinking about it now. According to this FNG Fords Brake Rotors for the Ikon are very thick hence leading to fast wear of the Disc Brake Pads. I plan to make one more trip to Ford, have a better engineer look at my brakes & if there is no improvement I will take the Allied route.

As for the occasional hot air blast; I too have this problem but its just for a few seconds & occurs only when there are short breaks between using the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkc15 View Post
This used to be some 3K+ 2 years ago.
Ford have dropped prices for their parts by quite a bit but I would rate it pricey when compared to Suzuki & Hyundai. There is a nice article in the April issue of Autocar India on how Ford India studied issues with their parts being very expensive & how they have gone about improving the situation. Worth a read.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mooza View Post
Hi Sandeep, in spite of getting my brake pads replaced, I had my heart in my mouth on the Bangalore Mangalore highway 4 years ago.
I have had a couple of these instances in the early days of ownership. Sort of adapted now but I still need to have it looked at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPARKled View Post
50000 kms and I am going to give my Ikon for a suspension overhaul/replacement
Will be doing this for my Ford in a couple of weeks. Waiting for some funds. A full suspension over haul will cost you around Rs. 22000. If its just the struts it will be around Rs. 14000 max. Can get cheaper. These are Ford prices. Same job at a FNG will save you some dough.
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Old 30th July 2010, 02:31   #28
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A friend of mine - a used car dealer in Pune, offered me the 2003 Ikon NXT 1.6 petrol, fully loaded and well maintained, for 1.7 lakhs. I rejected the offer since it had clocked 70k kms already. I was looking for an Ikon with less than 30k kms and not older than 3 years. He said the initial NXT models of 2003 had ROCAM engine kits imported from Ford's Mexican / South African plants and were far superior in terms of durability and FE. It was later in 2004 - 2005 that Ikons got their engines fully manufactured at their Chennai plant. He claims that the imported 1.6 ROCAM engines of 2003 have better FE than the 1.3's made locally !!

Is this true?
I believe the original 1.6 Josh machine and the Josh-Junior 1.3 had HCS/Push-rod engines. When exactly did Ford replaced these push-rods with ROCAMs?
When was the Flair model launched and what exactly changed?
When was the Ikon 1.6 ROCAM discontinued? I searched the forum and found only bits and peices of info.

I love the Ikon for it's superb handling, tight cornering and stability at higher speeds. Also I feel the rear seat comfort is the best in class. I like the Figo as well but I need the seperate boot space of the Ikon, at a price upto 3 lakhs. Based on sandeepmohan's exhautive list of spares replaced in his Ikon, it seems the spare parts of the older Ikon are still available and a bit cheaper too.

So, does it make sense to go for an Ikon 1.6 of 2003 that would fetch a lot cheaper? Or should I keep hunting for a 3-year old / 30K Kms Ikon 1.3? I would be using it infrequently for long highway runs, maybe averaging 4000 Kms / year. The last thing I expect is a break-down far away from the city.
Mods, please post this as a new topic if you feel appropriate. The title could be something like "A Joshfull query"

warm regards
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Old 16th August 2010, 09:47   #29
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Yes; the early lot of cars had engines from South Africa. The trade off was low fuel efficiency. The engines made in India posted better fuel efficiency due to a slightly different engine map. There was no drop in performance though. The starter motor is also different. My Ford cranks up with a different starter motor noise compared to the ones made in India. The imported engines are more quiet too but the gearbox is a bit of a let down. Long throws. The locally assembled gear box has a nice short throw box that is more precise.

70k Kms is nothing for this engine. It can do a good lac more kms before requiring any attention.

The imported engines are no way more efficient than the locally made 1.3L.

I do not know the exact time Ford replaced the engine. What I can say is my car which is year 2000 has a ROCAM. 1.3L from the same year was an ENDURA block. My friend still has this car and it runs without a hitch.

Don't know about the launch date for the Flair but this car came with the ROCAM 1.3L block.

Look for more 1.6 cars. You should get a better deal than the 1.7Lac car. I don't mind paying more for a car that is well kept even if it means paying more than what the real value of the car is.

Both engine variants are very reliable. My car has clocked only 64000km in 10 years and if you look at part replacements there is nothing that involves the engine. Reliabilty is not an issue with a Ford.
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Old 23rd January 2011, 12:06   #30
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Default Re: The Ford Ikon Experience

I had to update this thread a long long time ago but just did not find time to do it. I must admit, I was lazy too.

My Ford has been a fairly trouble free car from the time I took ownership. Its been a year and 3 months I took ownership of this car and not once has it left me stranded on the road. The car has not run much but a trip to Pondicherry and 2 trips to Cochin are the only marathon trips this car has done. I don't use the car much in Bangalore city as its a nightmare to drive or ride.

I had initially reported about the car brakes being next to nill and this still remains. In city traffic I find the bite horrible and the pedal feels dead and mushy, as if the entire system is filled with air and this inspite of having the entire braking system flushed with new Dot 4 fluid. Ford are unable to sort this out but have said that flushing will have to be done a few times for things to improve as the braking system has been ignored for years by the previous owner. The system was checked by a FNG who happened to have a proper brake bleed device and everything was reported as okay. There was air in the system but there is no difference in pedal feel. Whats weird is the brakes feel totally different at highway speeds. They grab and it does give me a lot of confidence even with a full load. On the highway, I have never driven this car with a light foot. I am always trying my best to get the best out this car on every drive. Sometimes pushing it to its limits in speed and handling. There have been a few scary moments but nothing that led to a crash or putting someone else to danger.

Fuel efficiency has not been upto Ikon standards. I get 9.5 kmpl in the city and 13.5kmpl on the highway runs. Air conditioning running at 90%. This figure has been steady from the day I changed, upsized my tires to 185's. Stock is 175. The cars air intake is by a K&N conical air filter. The filter cleaning and tire pressures are something I take care of myself. I use a foot pump to fill tires and use a seperate tire pressure guage as the pump guage has never been accurate from day 1. I use K&N filter cleaner and charger for the air filter. This process is a little time consuming and the car cannot be used for several hours if you do it the right way. Stock replacement filters might take less time to clean, dry and charge with filter oil.

The car is an absolute joy to drive. I have yet to come across a car with the same engine response. At highway speeds the engine feels as if it has reached its prime and wants to stay there. The gear box is not so great. Throws are super long. I have no complaints other than this. Ikons made post 2004 have a shorter throw gear box that Hindustan Motors supplied to Ford India. Mine uses the original box and engine Ford imported from South Africa when the Ikon was launched in 2000.

The cars suspension was due for an over haul and the thrills of a free flow exhaust were getting to me. Getting to me in a not so nice way. It was just too loud for a highway run and I had to get rid of it as it was surely going to fall apart some day due to rust. All this was replaced during the last service.

As expected the next bill from Ford was going to cost a bomb, so I saved up for a few months before I sent the car to Ford. Below is the bill break up of all the things I changed on the car.

Date : 24/06/2010
Kms : 63663

Gasket Cover @ Rs. 2549

Fuel Filter @ Rs. 142

Strut Front Right Hand Ikon Pet @ Rs. 1655

Strut Front Left Hand Ikon Pet @ Rs. 1655

Muffler CTR 1.6 Weld Ikon @ Rs. 4831

Mesh Filter @ Rs. 122

Wash Fluid Pouch @ Rs. 52

Muffler RR 1.3&1.6 Ikon @ Rs . 5765

Oil Filter @ Rs. 83

Cable Assemby for Speedo meter @ Rs. 550

Super Dot 4 Brake Fluid @ Rs. 533

Bumper @ Rs. 105 for 2 nos

Boot Kit OTR D/Shift @ Rs. 781 for 2 nos

RR Mounting Assembly @ Rs. 738 for 2 nos

MNTG Strut FRT IKN @ 779 for 2 nos

Strut Rear Right Ikon @ Rs 779 for 2 nos

2 Spare 10 Amp fuses @ Rs. 14

2 Spare 15 Amp fuses @ Rs. 10

2 Spare 20 Amp fuses @ Rs. 14

2 Spare 5 Amp fuses @ Rs. 11

Weight Wheel Balance 40gm @ Rs. 103 for 2 nos

Front Suspension Gaiter @ Rs. 455 for 2 nos

Insulator Rubber @ Rs. 174 for 3 nos

Weight Wheel Balance 30gm @ Rs. 119 for 3 nos

Weight Wheel Balance 15gm @ Rs. 32 for 3 nos

Wire Strap @ Rs. 43 for 4 nos

Retainer Rear Right @ Rs. 438 for 4 nos

Weight Wheel Balance 35gm @ Rs. 176 for 4 nos

Bharat Engine Oil @ Rs. 706 for 4.6l

Labour and Services

10000km service @ Rs. 900

Wheel Assemblies – Balance @ Rs. 420 for 2 nos

Front Wheel Alignment Check @ Rs. 300

Suspension Unit Assemblies - Front - Remove and Install @ Rs. 780

Suspension Unit Assemblies - Rear – Remove and Install @ Rs. 360

Cover – valve rocker – Remove and install@ Rs. 120

Cable – Speedometer - Inner and Outer – Remove and Install @ Rs. 240

Clean Choke Carbon @ Rs. 200

Consumbales @ Rs. 200

Drive Shaft Boot Replacement @ Rs. 500

Silencer Assembly @ Rs 500

Interior Foam Cleaning @ Rs. 1542

Waxoyl Engine Protection @ Rs. 297

Labour Total @ Rs. 4520

Parts Total @ Rs. 25451

The above figure itself is scary. Throw in our wonderful tax system figures and the total bill was Rs. 35995.

This is one bloody expensive car to fix. I had no choice. The only car I wanted to own after this is a Ford Fiesta S or the 90 Hp Fiat Punto. Both cars are out of reach and though there is the exchange option, I did not wants to burden myself with a EMI for 5 years as there are more important purchases to make later on.

Post this service my car has clocked around 68000km and and there has been no trouble at all. The engine runs smooth & cool and new suspension is working great. Brakes are the same. Feels mushy in the city but safe at highway speeds.

The coil springs for the front suspension were not replaced as Metro Ford, Lingarapuram were out of stock on this. Its Rs. 1000 for a spring.

The valve cover gasket needed replacement as there was little traces of oil leaking from it.

The speedo meter needle used to shake like a rattle snakes tail and thats why the expense for it.

The suspension for the car was a total goner and had to be replaced. It was super soft and used to keep hiting the struts travel limit for a not so deep pot hole. I am not happy with the fronts even after replacement and my guess is the springs need to be replaced too. Will be doing this soon.

It is heaven to drive the car now after the exhaust replacement. There is still some boom inside the car and it is not as silent as a 2004 Ikon. It is a known fact that the Ikon has poor sound insulation. My guess is this car did not come with a catalytic convertor back then and hence the extra noise from the exhaust. It is not exactly quiet inside even at idle engine speeds and there is absolutely no leak from the new exhaust.

Brake bleeding was done and thats why the Dot 4 brake fluid. Costs a bomb. The same grade made by TVS is just Rs. 250.

I had asked Ford to give me some spare essential fuses. No fuse has blown till date buts its always nice to keep spares.

This is a very expensive car ro run and more so when it comes to maintaining. Ford have done nothing to lower the cost of owning an Ikon and its probably one of the reasons the sales for this car are low today. I cannot understand why Ford India still import some components for this car after 10 years of building one The Ford Ikon is still a good buy as a new car and I would buy it any day over a Tata Indica, Indigo or a Hyundai Accent. The TDCi Ford Ikon is just 6 lacs on road. I doubt if there is any 4 door diesel sedan that offers the same driving pleasure, handling, comfort & space. I rather own a Ford than any other brand if I were looking at a fairly modern 4 door family sedan that is safe. It does not have any active safety features but the car has solid build. I have no regrets buying this car and love my car a lot. Will never give up on it.

Last edited by sandeepmohan : 23rd January 2011 at 12:14. Reason: Spelling errors
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