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Old 29th June 2011, 11:52   #181
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Default re: Life with a Fiat Punto *UPDATE* Car sold

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Originally Posted by akhilesh View Post
No that title will go to the Polo diesel. That apart do you still want to quote magazine figures when you say Punto is the slowest? Don't we know how reliable or trustworthy they are?

And pardon me for saying this but if Swift's 13.xx seconds is considered fast, how can Punto which achieves performance around the same ballpark and offers better driveability can be called slow or medicore?

The performance is much better than what all magazine claims? For the benefit of all of us would it be possible for you to post a video of your Punto? That will also give us an idea as to how fast the 90 hp really is.
The Swift feels and is way more peppy than Punto. Drive them back to back and you will know.

And How can you claim Punto does 0-100 withing the same time as the Swift? Just because someone posted a Video on You-Tube or you did a timing run with the Stop watch?? Are these figures more reliable than V-BOX the magazines use or Is this a conspiracy by everyone in Media to prove Punto a slower car. Refer GTO's review, he too has rated the performance Mediocre.
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Old 29th June 2011, 12:08   #182
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Default re: Life with a Fiat Punto *UPDATE* Car sold

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The Swift feels and is way more peppy than Punto. Drive them back to back and you will know.
It also suffers from Turbo lag and because it isnt as stiff as the Punto or neither as well damped from the outside elements, it will feel peppy. I can't see what the argument when we can see a video proof.

I have driven the Swift and I absolutely adore that car but the power delivery isnt as linear and if you are caught in a wrong gear it won't move.

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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
And How can you claim Punto does 0-100 withing the same time as the Swift? Just because someone posted a Video on You-Tube or you did a timing run with the Stop watch?? Are these figures more reliable than V-BOX the magazines use or Is this a conspiracy by everyone in Media to prove Punto a slower car. Refer GTO's review, he too has rated the performance Mediocre.
I didn't do a timing run with a stop watch, I shot a video and you can then calculate the 0-100 time looking at when the speedo starts climbing and when it reaches 100 kph and the video time span in between. I know its not as accurate as V-Box or any other professional measuring equipment but its fairly accurate and certainly isn't few seonds off. Just half a second here or there.
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Old 29th June 2011, 12:19   #183
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Default re: Life with a Fiat Punto *UPDATE* Car sold

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Originally Posted by akhilesh View Post
I didn't do a timing run with a stop watch, I shot a video and you can then calculate the 0-100 time looking at when the speedo starts climbing and when it reaches 100 kph and the video time span in between. I know its not as accurate as V-Box or any other professional measuring equipment but its fairly accurate and certainly isn't few seonds off. Just half a second here or there.
If calculating Performance timing was that easy as looking at a Video, why would any one buy equipment worth lakhs and spend hours mounting that heavy gear to check a car's performance.

If i post a 8.XX sec Speedo Video(Obviously done on a closed road) of my Laura will you believe it over magazine or Manufacturer claimed timing? Do you think it will be just 0.5secs off the real time, How?
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Old 29th June 2011, 13:39   #184
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Default re: Life with a Fiat Punto *UPDATE* Car sold

May be to spice up the discussion, Does having a V-box augment a correct possible acceleration?

Even with V-box if the driver is not launching the car properly and gets a reading of 20 secs and brands the car as slow, then it clearly highlights the caliber of that magazine. Please note I am definitely not questioning anybody's driving skills here, just hinting at something that might be overlooked.

For the swift in my case, its a pain in the *** to drive this car in Bangalore bumper to bumper traffic, if you aren't in the right gear, you will left for dead with people honking madly behind you when the signal turns green . Though on the highway its definitely better. I haven't driven the FIGO extensively, so no comments on that part. But driven a Diesel fiesta quite a few times on the highway, its good in the city, but poor on the highway, the Fiesta begs for 1.6 with atleast 100 bhp.

As you mentioned about the Punto's ride and handling, I would like to compliment by adding that the palio itself is leagues ahead of the swift so forget the Punto (swift itself is a decent handling car).

For the everything else, In Bangalore I have not faced sourcing the parts for my Palio (pre NV) version till date. Though the service capability can definitely improve, it is definitely not mediocre. Though I definitely would not agree to blindly accept Maruti and Hyundai service centers are excellent, its more of the sweet talk and not real automobile servicing business.

Last edited by nkrishnap : 29th June 2011 at 13:40.
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Old 29th June 2011, 14:09   #185
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Default re: Life with a Fiat Punto *UPDATE* Car sold

Punto is a great car with lots best in class attributes. The performance from the MJD is certainly not one of them (based on feedback from owners on this forum as well as various mags in general) The way the MJD has been tuned by Fiat, has been an issue right since it was first seen in a Fiat car i.e. Palio MJD. All of us were enamoured by the MJD when we first saw in the Swift and expected Fiat to make even better use of it in their very own Palio. But the performance of this MJD in the Palio was disappointing to say the least after seeing how it performed in the Swift. The same problem seems to continue in the Punto.

Last edited by .anshuman : 29th June 2011 at 17:34. Reason: Mass Cleanup of thread: Oftopic content removed. Thanks
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Old 29th June 2011, 18:46   #186
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Default re: Life with a Fiat Punto *UPDATE* Car sold

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Originally Posted by akhilesh View Post
Offcourse how else do you think I am doing it? I am not a professional tester neither do I work for any magazine. But all said, in a video its easy to make out the exact time since you can see the timed progress of the video and also see when the speedo start to climb and reaches 100 kph.
So how reliable is the speedo? Is it w/o errors? Have you factored it?

I would rather go by ACI figures and not some other magazine. OD puts 90 HP at 15.75 secs.

Want to have laughs? Dream diesel - Nissan Micra Comparo - Comparison Tests : Overdrive They have conveniently ignored 90HP's handling parameter.

Ignore Figo too as it would have swiped the test. March '10, the petrol hatch back winner is Polo, the 1.2 3 cyl version.

Am posting a link of a M'cycle video posted by a biker friend of mine where the last comment is of mine as it kind of seals the debate.

46sheel is me



The bike does the ton in over 13 secs as tested by various magazines.
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Old 30th June 2011, 05:17   #187
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Default re: Life with a Fiat Punto *UPDATE* Car sold

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Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
So how reliable is the speedo? Is it w/o errors? Have you factored it?
Incredible how you trust the magazine figures and won't trust a video posted which actually shows how the acceleration is? I have nothing more to say.

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Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
I would rather go by ACI figures and not some other magazine. OD puts 90 HP at 15.75 secs.
I would rather no go by any magazine figures. They are in a business remember and the revenue has to come from the same manufacturers they test cars from.

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Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
Am posting a link of a M'cycle video posted by a biker friend of mine where the last comment is of mine as it kind of seals the debate.

46sheel is me

The bike does the ton in over 13 secs as tested by various magazines.
Couldn't get what you are trying to say here? Are you saying that we shouldn't trust video but the figures published by the magazine even if they are way off?

Last edited by mobike008 : 30th June 2011 at 13:57. Reason: Please DO NOT quote videos, images, large text etc....
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Old 30th June 2011, 12:35   #188
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Default re: Life with a Fiat Punto *UPDATE* Car sold

Ok. We all agree that GP isnt the fastest. So, who is taking the car to the drag strip? I never had a problem launching the car at any signal nor did I have a trouble on the highway.
Faster cars have overtaken me and I have overtaken slower cars. Mostly made a mockery of any speed limits on the highway. Does my huge ego get hurt when someone overtakes me? Yeah. sometimes. I cant deny that. So, what do I do about it? Do I run over that slow uncle in that CD100 hogging the lane? Happens.
Mine's bigger than urs wont get me a trophy nor would I have some extra cash in my bank account.
I love my car and I am happy as a bee in it and thats the end of the story. If I turn a critical eye to everything, I might start finding faults with butterfly's wings and child's doodle!
Akhilesh & Anshuman, you are both flagbearers for Fiat in the nation's capital. Am sure you would have met up. Khub jamega rang jab mil baithenge teen yaar, Akilesh- Anshuman and Punto
Have one on me as well.
At the end of the day, even a person driving his Amby also loves his car.

However, at the end of the day, I still do not have much faith in the car mags.
We all know how the Punto feels restricted before 5000kms and the nature changes suddenly. When GTO reviewed the car, it was brand new. I am sure all of you would agree that the drive impression would be different for a car which has crossed 5k. e.g. Jaggu/Rudra's drive impression on the Fiat drive.
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Old 30th June 2011, 12:49   #189
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Originally Posted by aqualeo2040 View Post
We all know how the Punto feels restricted before 5000kms and the nature changes suddenly. When GTO reviewed the car, it was brand new. I am sure all of you would agree that the drive impression would be different for a car which has crossed 5k. e.g. Jaggu/Rudra's drive impression on the Fiat drive.
Since the Swift also comes with the Multijet engine, it's nature should also change after 5000kms(or maybe Fiat did not pass on this secret to Suzuki and Tata) meaning the performance gap will still exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aqualeo2040 View Post

However, at the end of the day, I still do not have much faith in the car mags.
Even i do not refer Mags as bibles but i feel their times are more reliable than Stopwatch + Speedometer method.

Last edited by .anshuman : 30th June 2011 at 13:05. Reason: Posts Merged.
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Old 30th June 2011, 13:38   #190
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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Since the Swift also comes with the Multijet engine, it's nature should also change after 5000kms(or maybe Fiat did not pass on this secret to Suzuki and Tata) meaning the performance gap will still exist.



Even i do not refer Mags as bibles but i feel their times are more reliable than Stopwatch + Speedometer method.
Acceleration figures have a lot of variables at play and it all boils down to whether swift D and Punto D can deliver well in the highways and in the city taffic without much of gear shifting.

After going through all your ownership experience in your posts, appears that the service experience has been a dampener. It maybe specific to you or some people but it does affect the brand overall and that reflects in the sales figures.

I have few questions as I would be on the lookout for a car in the 7-8L range and have Punto Diesel on my radar as this has been the most appealing car overall in the hatchback segment.

1) Has Punto quality improved as I have read the new Puntos are better put together for those flimsy bits that were a cause of concern in the early Puntos.
2) The New Punto Evo's interiors look quite good and of good quality going by the pics. Have you by any chance got any information on its launch.
3) I have driven the Siwft D and the Vista D and found Vista's engine response better than swift which was more progressive in vista's case. I would assume Punto to be on similar lines. Vista doesn't handle well / does not give good feedback while driving but has an excellent ride quality.
4) I know the risks involved in going for a Punto i.e, poor service which might be subjective, acceptable quality, less resale value. Are there good discounts offered on Puntos to get good sales numbers.
5) Which clutch is lighter of the Two ( swift or the Punto). If the Punto's is heavy, can it be made lighter. I prefer lighter clutches.
6) Spare costs: Are they on par with maruti and easy on the wallet for parts that might require replacement after the regular wear and tear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akhilesh View Post
Incredible how you trust the magazine figures and won't trust a video posted which actually shows how the acceleration is? I have nothing more to say.


I would rather no go by any magazine figures. They are in a business remember and the revenue has to come from the same manufacturers they test cars from.


Couldn't get what you are trying to say here? Are you saying that we shouldn't trust video but the figures published by the magazine even if they are way off?
Are we accounting for the Speedo errors also which usually are in the range of 5 to15% more than actual. I would doubt the magazine's published figures if the video and the quoted figures vary in excess of 2 seconds for a 0-100 KMPH run and then again I would assume the speedo correction is accounted for in the video test.

Last edited by benbsb29 : 1st July 2011 at 00:03. Reason: Merging back-to-back posts. Please use Edit button if replying within 30 mins of previous post.
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Old 30th June 2011, 13:52   #191
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Default re: Life with a Fiat Punto *UPDATE* Car sold

Quote:
Originally Posted by akhilesh View Post
Incredible how you trust the magazine figures and won't trust a video posted which actually shows how the acceleration is? I have nothing more to say.
The video which I have posted is proof enough as to whether we should go by video figures.

I am flabbergasted as to how no account is taken of the speedo meter error? (Odo is at error too) And with wider tires, the error percentage might be up.

What is your take on the speedo meter error? Are speedo figures accurate? Some differ by over 5%.


Quote:
I would rather no go by any magazine figures. They are in a business remember and the revenue has to come from the same manufacturers they test cars from.
Of the magazines available, I go by their figures & not the verdict. Are there better options?

Quote:
Couldn't get what you are trying to say here? Are you saying that we shouldn't trust video but the figures published by the magazine even if they are way off?
Which magazine posted video figures?

If you watch the video which I have posted, you shall see as to how quickly the Motorcycle reaches the figures which are way off (at least by 3 secs) and its a video with a count down timer running along side, so should I believe that video?

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post

Even i do not refer Mags as bibles but i feel their times are more reliable than Stopwatch + Speedometer method.
I too am talking about their timings and not verdicts

Stopwatch + speedo = (human-nature* + error)

*depending on the brand and Car.
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Old 30th June 2011, 13:56   #192
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Default re: Life with a Fiat Punto *UPDATE* Car sold

Well, having only driven a Punto diesel for less than 5kms, I wont like to comment on it. But it did feel a bit more lethargic than the Swift. But I put that down to the 100kgs of extra weight, and the gearing.

Somethings that I can say about is, the new Punto's definitely have better interior quality, compared to the older Puntos, one of which we have. Its not nearly as good as the i20s or the Polos, but still more than good enough.

Service experience, what I have felt is more a perception than actual fact. There are many many satisfied customers, who have had no issues at all with the service. But because of the history of FIAT in India, we tend to read too much into even one person's bad FIAT experience. There are many FIAT customer's like my family, who have had nothing but regular service done till now on our 1.5 yr old Punto and the vehicle is still in pristine condition.

About service costs, its nor much better or much worse than Maruti. Also, dont expect resale value from a FIAT. If you intend to sell it in 2years and recover some money back, look elsewhere.

Also, dont wait around for the Punto Evo, it's not expected this year according to latest reports. It may be more than year before we see it's launch.
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Old 30th June 2011, 14:19   #193
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I have owned the Palio for more than 2 years and have driven it for more than 25K kms. My thoughts here when you compare the multijet vs DDiS vs Quadrajet. I agree to the view point that Swift feels peppier and is faster off the block. This is largely due to the gear ratio's adopted. If you look at the Punto/ Linea the range of power/ torque delivery in 1st and 2 nd gear is definitely less than the Swift. However, in Punto/ Linea/ Palio, 3rd gear is very versatile and has a longer range. The Fiat's will accelerate pretty well even in the 5th gear. I did nt feel my palio run out of breath till atleast 140 km/ hr beyond which the acceleration was slower. I have done a max of 160 kmph in the Palio and it was rock steady. Brillaint handling.

So, the crux is the gear ratios and how it has been mapped to deliver power at the given gear and rpm combination. Fiat's gear ratio's are defined differently than the Swift and hence the difference. Response to acceleration in the Swift beyond 100 kmph gets slower which is were the Fiat's would beat it. Add stability of the vehicle at the speeds to it. At the end of the day it is a matter of what you want.. instant acceleration at lower gears/ speed or a more versatile 3rd gear where u can pull the car off without knocking even at 20kmph and reach close to 90kmph/100kmph. That is where the difference is, according to me.
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Old 30th June 2011, 14:33   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Since the Swift also comes with the Multijet engine, it's nature should also change after 5000kms(or maybe Fiat did not pass on this secret to Suzuki and Tata) meaning the performance gap will still exist.
Sir, you are the best placed to comment on this part. You had both the rides. So, if you say that the difference is massive, it could possibly be.
I have driven around in my best pals Swift for some time and I was let down a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by muni View Post
Acceleration figures have a lot of variables at play and it all boils down to whether swift D and Punto D can deliver well in the highways and in the city taffic without much of gear shifting.

After going through all your ownership experience in your posts, appears that the service experience has been a dampener. It maybe specific to you or some people but it does affect the brand overall and that reflects in the sales figures.

I have few questions as I would be on the lookout for a car in the 7-8L range and have Punto Diesel on my radar as this has been the most appealing car overall in the hatchback segment.

1) Has Punto quality improved as I have read the new Puntos are better put together for those flimsy bits that were a cause of concern in the early Puntos.
I have one of the first lot cars and nothing has broken,fallen off etc etc yet.
2) The New Punto Evo's interiors look quite good and of good quality going by the pics. Have you by any chance got any information on its launch.
3) I have driven the Siwft D and the Vista D and found Vista's engine response better than swift which was more progressive in vista's case. I would assume Punto to be on similar lines. Vista doesn't handle well / does not give good feedback while driving but has an excellent ride quality.
4) I know the risks involved in going for a Punto i.e, poor service which might be subjective, acceptable quality, less resale value. Are there good discounts offered on Puntos to get good sales numbers.
I am not so sure about the service part. You can go through my ownership thread. I also own a Chevy Spark and have got the Swift (mentioned above) serviced couple of times. Personally, the Prerana service experience is till date one of the most professional and the best I have come across. (I dont even want to mention my Amby service experiences ).


5) Which clutch is lighter of the Two ( swift or the Punto). If the Punto's is heavy, can it be made lighter. I prefer lighter clutches.
Swift is lighter.
6) Spare costs: Are they on par with maruti and easy on the wallet for parts that might require replacement after the regular wear and tear.
Other than the part where we put in more expensive Synthetic oil, all parts are almost at par. Moreover, the Swift's service Interval is 5kwhile for the GP its 15k.
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Old 30th June 2011, 14:39   #195
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Default re: Life with a Fiat Punto *UPDATE* Car sold

Quote:
Originally Posted by muni View Post
I have few questions as I would be on the lookout for a car in the 7-8L range and have Punto Diesel on my radar as this has been the most appealing car overall in the hatchback segment.

1) Has Punto quality improved as I have read the new Puntos are better put together for those flimsy bits that were a cause of concern in the early Puntos.
The biggest change in Punto's Interiors is the shift to soft touch dashboard which feels a lot better than the hard cheap dashboard in my car. Fit and Finish is still a concern(Just uneven fittings and gaps, no rattle and squeaks though).

Quote:
2) The New Punto Evo's interiors look quite good and of good quality going by the pics. Have you by any chance got any information on its launch.
Evo's Interiors look good in the pics, let's wait for Evo to arrive here before saying anything on Fit & finish(More of a localisation problem). I do not have any issues with the design of current interiors, to me they look very good especially the center console.

Quote:
3) I have driven the Siwft D and the Vista D and found Vista's engine response better than swift which was more progressive in vista's case. I would assume Punto to be on similar lines. Vista doesn't handle well / does not give good feedback while driving but has an excellent ride quality.
The Vista, Ritz and Punto have slightly different state of tune with slightly more linear torque where max torque is available from 1750rpm, in comparison Swift has more peaky torque output which peaks at ~2000rpm. The new Swift may also have this more linear state of tune.

I feel Vista is a lacklustre product in comparison to Swift, Punto and Ritz. Even Mr.Tata admitted last month that their cars will take few more years to be at par in quality with global manufacturers.

Quote:
4) I know the risks involved in going for a Punto i.e, poor service which might be subjective, acceptable quality, less resale value. Are there good discounts offered on Puntos to get good sales numbers.
There are good and bad sides to everything. The best part is this car ages pretty well, with no squeaks and rattles my 2 years old 40k done Punto still feels as good as new(except fading plastics), the situation for my Swift was not as good in comparion. If you have a good Dealership in your area, the ownership will be a lot more painless if not entirely painfree.

Quote:
5) Which clutch is lighter of the Two ( swift or the Punto). If the Punto's is heavy, can it be made lighter. I prefer lighter clutches.
When new Punto has a lighter clutch. My Punto's clutch became heavier over time, after the master cylinder assembly replacement(after breakdown) the clutch is now as light as when it was new. Let's see how it ages. Overall Punto is easier to drive in traffic owing to Linear power delivery.

Quote:
6) Spare costs: Are they on par with maruti and easy on the wallet for parts that might require replacement after the regular wear and tear.
Most spare parts are as cheap as the Swift/Ritz, some filters are more expensive. Usage of Synthetic Oil in Punto is more of a price differentiater here. Average service cost is 5000 Rupees(Blame Synthetic Oil and more expensive Diesel filter for this) but the long service interval of 15k kms is quite a relief.

Last edited by .anshuman : 30th June 2011 at 14:42.
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