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Old 9th June 2011, 23:42   #166
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Default Re: My new preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok - 6 months up!

A crisis which just passed by.


Folks at the Civic bible
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...-must-dos.html

will know that Scorponok was suffering some grr grr noise. Sometimes it was audiable, sometimes it was not. It would mostly come on load between idle and 1500 RPM. After that it was not discernible. During mid-may, after the Goa trip, the noise had increased to irritating levels. Interacted with many folks here, specially @Gaurav_Chopra04, @Jatinpatel, @Guderian, @Laluks and @mdsaab among many others. The best option was to visit Honda A.S.S. So I did. They said that they will investigate if only the car was given for 40k service. Since Scorponok was running at 39+ on odo, I felt that this was indeed a good time for both.

HASS felt that there was an additional knocking sound. Actually @Guderian had also felt like that. So first test was to change the engine oil and filter and see. Here are some pictures of the op.

My preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok. Now with Vtec indicator-23052011552.jpg

My preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok. Now with Vtec indicator-23052011554.jpg

My preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok. Now with Vtec indicator-23052011560.jpg

The old oil had some burning smell. The draining was carried on for over an hour so the last bit of oil, which is usually heavy with sludge, comes out. This process was also helped by the fact it was lunch time. So I had ample time to check out Scorpo's underbelly. Some battle scars were noted this time. Must be the Goa trip.

My preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok. Now with Vtec indicator-23052011561.jpg

My preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok. Now with Vtec indicator-23052011562.jpg

My preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok. Now with Vtec indicator-23052011564.jpg

Then noticed that the fuel tank is actually a layered plastic sandwich composite. The plastic EVAL or ethylene-vinyl alcohol is the key material which gives hydrocarbon barrier. Since this is a Jap car, most likely the supplier is Kurarey who are the few known manufacturers of EVAL. A guess that is.

My preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok. Now with Vtec indicator-23052011566.jpg

My preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok. Now with Vtec indicator-23052011565.jpg

Also noticed that the transmission has Nissin logo embossed on it.

My preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok. Now with Vtec indicator-23052011571.jpg
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Old 10th June 2011, 00:11   #167
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Default Re: My new preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok - 6 months up!

So its resolved now ?
I'm waiting for the update. Pretty curious to know what the problem was. Hurry.
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Old 10th June 2011, 00:25   #168
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Default Re: My new preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok - 6 months up!

After that, requested the SA to flush the engine with a small helping of oil. Initially they said that there was no need. I explained to them that I work with vacuum pumps all the time and when we change oil we flush the system once before adding fresh oil. They finally agreed. A flush with arranged. Here is a picture of that operation. Also the old oil filter and the new one next to each other.

My preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok. Now with Vtec indicator-23052011576.jpg

My preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok. Now with Vtec indicator-23052011572.jpg

Finally fresh engine oil, Honda Idemitsu 5-w-30 was administered. And the new oil filter.

My preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok. Now with Vtec indicator-23052011578.jpg

My preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok. Now with Vtec indicator-23052011577.jpg

Scorpo was brought down and we took a TD. The knocking sound had gone but the gurgling grr grr noise remained. So the next thing was to open the serpentine belt system and check each component. SA said that they will continue with the rest of the service. I left them to carry on the work.

Next day I was back. The showed me the fuel strainer which was dirty. Also attaching a pic of the fuel tank below the seat for information. This picture was taken on another Civic which was also undergoing 40k service.

My preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok. Now with Vtec indicator-23052011574.jpg

My preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok. Now with Vtec indicator-23052011575.jpg

My preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok. Now with Vtec indicator-23052011573.jpg

On @Guderian's advice, I had asked SA to check the spark plugs for wetness. It took some convincing to do the same as according to their instructions they open the plugs only at 100k. We finally opened them, there was no wetness. They also said everything is fine with the serpentine belt system. It was time to pack up.

Took a TD, noise still there, infact slightly increased. The remedy was to probably open the engine. This left me quite cold.

Paid and took the car to @mdsaab house. Of all coincidences, as we were talking, we saw our well known mechanic passing by. I had actually shown Scorpo to him a few days back and he had recommended to go to Honda first. We inspected the car for a while and felt that something was loose, thats why noise was occuring.

So next day I gave Scorpo to this independent garage. He called after a few hours and said that the lower engine mount is probably the culprit. Went there to test. We sat inside the car while a fellow pressed the lower mount from below. The sound seems to die away on pressing.

A new mount was ordered. It was fixed the following day. Here is a pics of the mount.

My preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok. Now with Vtec indicator-26052011588.jpg

A TD showed that there was hardly any decrease of noise. At this juncture we decided to take off the belt and drive the car. If the noise still persisted without the belt it meant that engine might have an issue. If not then the belt system had the culprit somewhere. The TD after the belt was the clincher. No noise at all.

So they attacked the belt system for trouble-shooting.

Next day, another phone call. The autotensioner was kaput. I felt very happy. Why? Because I had suspected that all along. I have been telling Honda and these guys right from the beginning to check the auto-tensioner. How did I know: internet. But folks everwhere had other opinion.

My preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok. Now with Vtec indicator-27052011590.jpg

Anyways a new auto-tensioner was procured and fixed. Noise reduced by 90%.

I wrote on the Civic bible thead and resurrected this thread.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ot-care-8.html (Problems With My Civic And Honda Does Not Care)
Now this is the third time I am narrating this story. Sorry to bore, guys.

But some noise still remained. In the meantime I met the older BHPians of Pune thanks to the night meet. Met @amey, @moralfiber, @Vikram18 and @1Self who recommended this place "Tune up plus". The owner (Abhijit) is known for his experience and work + he is a Bhpian.

So took Scorponok there. Abhijit did a TD, then took a stethoscope and found out that the noise is still from the auto-tensioner.

My preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok. Now with Vtec indicator-04062011598.jpg

Gave the car to him for a couple of days. He took out the new tensioner, put the old one back and realized that the mount of the auto tensioner has a small play. The old tensioner has a play of its own, so the effect is much more. The new tensioner has no play, so the sound is very less. What he said was that this play will remain. Not an issue on drivability. When I TDed the car, the noise has reduced even further, thanks to some adjustments.

So thats the story so far. My Scorponok has some "character" now.

Last edited by dot : 10th June 2011 at 00:44.
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Old 10th June 2011, 00:56   #169
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Default Re: My new preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok - 6 months up!

Damn, cant believe the auto tensioner was such a big problem . I dont know why every one at ASC thinks they are bond and doesnt want to listen to customer. If you told them its an auto tensioner, they could have tried to replace it at your cost. Whats wrong in it.

My car's accelerator wire has gone hard. When I told SA that there is some issue despite TB cleaning, he thought it could be my illusion. But the senior technitian still took all the effort to get the wire removed and check it. It finally was the wire, which was culprit for hard accelerator pedal.

If they havent replaced a part in any car, doesnt mean they will wont have any problem with that part ever.

But very nice to hear that the problem has finally been resoved, well almost. So have fun, happy motoring and drive safe .

Last edited by gaurav_chopra04 : 10th June 2011 at 01:02.
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Old 10th June 2011, 01:08   #170
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Default Re: My new preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok - 6 months up!

@dot

I am really scratching my head at this moment thinking how did the auto tensioner mount established a play in it.

So now scorpo is on the new tensioner or the old one?
does it mean that your 10k is down the drain?
the mechanics guess for the shot mount was then ?

See the bright side of your problem (actually only noise nothing to hamper your usability so can it be still termed as a problem ?)

Now scorpo has a definite identity with its peculiar sound.
Good for you Your SCORPONOK IS UNIQUE.


P.S- Loved the stethoscope way of check up. I do with a metal rod gonna buy a stetho soon.

Last edited by jatinpatel : 10th June 2011 at 01:10.
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Old 10th June 2011, 08:34   #171
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Default Re: My new preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok - 6 months up!

@dot- I actually feel bad that we laughed at you for imagining the noise now! Good going- shows how persistence and patience can resolved the most niggling of problems.

Scorponok is smooth as silk as it is...can't wait to drive it in new avatar!

Congrats and keep posting!
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Old 10th June 2011, 09:59   #172
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Default Re: My new preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok - 6 months up!

Hi dot,
Nice narrative and great snaps.
Now one thing that I couln't figure out is to why should there be a play in the tensioner 'inspite of whatever you do' ? Either the mounting stud has lost material and so there is a gap or the tensioner itself has a couple of MM of rubber less ?
Can you not pack it with say additional rubber material and then mount it ? Say like cut a rubber tube or something - emery paper it to required thickness and then wrap it on the mounting stud or place into the aperture and mount it ? Would last for sometime I'm sure and the T would create much lesser a racket, I presume ?

And what is it with the Honda Civic tensioners and engine/GB mounts ? Seem to have read quite a few reports on their premature failures.
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Old 10th June 2011, 11:11   #173
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Default Re: My new preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok - 6 months up!

Phew ! Good to know the problem has been identified and mostly resolved !

In fact after reading about this issue, I have been imagining (or maybe actually) hearing similar noises !

Does the gurgling noise happen more with the AC on? Does it happen when the revs are increased to 2K when the car is stationary? Or is it audible only when the car is in motion?
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Old 10th June 2011, 11:24   #174
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Default Re: My new preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok - 6 months up!

Patience and persistence paid off. Well done Dot!
At this point I was about to ask what in heaven's name is an auto tensioner, but a lil bit of googling explained quite nicely.
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Old 10th June 2011, 13:00   #175
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Default Re: My new preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok - 6 months up!

@dot
Beautiful write up supported by pics.
And isn't it cool that Honda is using brake fluid with your name on it. Ok so they all have your name on them but still.
I am glad that you have come to terms with the source of the noise and are now going to take it easy.
You bet Scorpo has definite character now ~ and is one unique beauty.
I am still waiting to catch up with you and would love to have a spin around in Scorpo soon. What to do this week was just to hectic.
We shall plan it.
Drive Safe!
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Old 10th June 2011, 14:24   #176
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Default Re: My new preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok - 6 months up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gaurav_chopra04 View Post
Damn, cant believe the auto tensioner was such a big problem. I dont know why every one at ASC thinks they are bond and doesnt want to listen to customer. If you told them its an auto tensioner, they could have tried to replace it at your cost. Whats wrong in it.
Tell me about it. This "bond" problem is a little bit of Puneri attitude also. I see it from all types of people, from plumbers to BMW SAs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gaurav_chopra04 View Post
But very nice to hear that the problem has finally been resoved, well almost. So have fun, happy motoring and drive safe.
Thanks man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jatinpatel View Post

I am really scratching my head at this moment thinking how did the auto tensioner mount established a play in it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guderian View Post
Now one thing that I couln't figure out is to why should there be a play in the tensioner 'inspite of whatever you do' ? Either the mounting stud has lost material and so there is a gap or the tensioner itself has a couple of MM of rubber less ?

And what is it with the Honda Civic tensioners and engine/GB mounts ? Seem to have read quite a few reports on their premature failures.
That is the million dollar (or 16 lakh) question.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shuvc View Post
Phew ! Good to know the problem has been identified and mostly resolved !

In fact after reading about this issue, I have been imagining (or maybe actually) hearing similar noises !

Does the gurgling noise happen more with the AC on? Does it happen when the revs are increased to 2K when the car is stationary? Or is it audible only when the car is in motion?
Hmm, here we go again. Yes the noise does come when AC comes on. Noise actually becomes indistinguishable when rev is over 2k. It used to come whenever gear was engaged, or AC was on, that is load was applied to engine. If ShuvCivic is getting these noises, do have a look at the tensioner.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jatinpatel View Post

So now scorpo is on the new tensioner or the old one?

the mechanics guess for the shot mount was then ?
New tensioner and new mount. Old tensioner and mount did have significant play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jatinpatel View Post

Now scorpo has a definite identity with its peculiar sound.
Good for you Your SCORPONOK IS UNIQUE.

P.S- Loved the stethoscope way of check up. I do with a metal rod gonna buy a stetho soon.
Yeah, Scropo is really knocking! Like this guy saying it

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Quote:
Originally Posted by noopster View Post
Good going- shows how persistence and patience can resolved the most niggling of problems.

Scorponok is smooth as silk as it is...can't wait to drive it in new avatar!

Congrats and keep posting!
Thanks friend. Persistence is my middle name and it features on my annual skillsets and resume. For many it is also a synonym of a pesky irritant.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hiren.mistry View Post
Patience and persistence paid off. Well done Dot!
At this point I was about to ask what in heaven's name is an auto tensioner, but a lil bit of googling explained quite nicely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdsaab View Post
And isn't it cool that Honda is using brake fluid with your name on it. Ok so they all have your name on them but still.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mdsaab View Post
I am glad that you have come to terms with the source of the noise and are now going to take it easy.
Thanks dude. I am trying to relax, it is great that the meet is tomorrow, for some people that is.
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Old 10th June 2011, 21:34   #177
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Default Re: My new preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok - 6 months up!

Well I must say be proud to have a unique civic.
I am thinking what to do to my Silver Rocket to make it bit unique not too loud though as SR is used by my mom.

On that note
did you install louder horn ?
read your post in Civic maintenance thread
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Old 10th June 2011, 22:16   #178
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Default Re: My new preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok - 6 months up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jatinpatel View Post
On that note
did you install louder horn ?
read your post in Civic maintenance thread
Waiting for the FNAA (Friendly Neighborhood Auto Accessory guy) to bring over Stebel Nautilus. They had Mindas like the one fitted on your Silver Rocket. Very nice. But I wanted to compare them against the Stebels. Moreover the Minda ones were expensive compared to what you paid. With relay and labour, the quote was about 1k.
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Old 10th June 2011, 22:23   #179
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Default Re: My new preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok - 6 months up!

Woah thats way high try to haggle a little and get the price down to 800rs or so.

I got it for 650 cause the person is a very good friend of mine and i have given him many cars as business so he waved off little amount.

Do let me know about the Stebel nautilus and how does it stand against minda.
If its better than Minda will surely change to Stebel.
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Old 28th June 2011, 20:31   #180
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Default Re: My new preworshipped Honda Civic - Scorponok - 6 months up!

Hey dot, I've always been curious about one thing in the Civic. Is there any particular reason why only it's only the Civic in it's segment that has centre-configuration wipers?

Any technical reason or just a novelty factor?
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