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Old 6th December 2010, 16:26   #16
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Guys, another point I forgot to mention in the huge post. After 5-6 days from delivery, I started noticing an odd noise from the bottom of the car. Especially when I was slow, braking, just past a speed breaker or parking in my lot. It was an odd noise like something heavy was lose and rolling with momentum against the car's movement. Well I investigated it well in the office parking lot. And it was the diesel in the tank! At a particular level - say about 30 odd liters in the tank, the diesel's movement sound is audible. Turns out its with all cars, I was just paying too much attention to the sounds that my babe was making! In case anyone hears this particular thing, ask a buddy to drive and sit besides the car on ground. Hard breaking will make the sound and you can pinpoint it to the diesel tank. Inside the cabin its very low and cant make out to be a liquid. Sit near the car's bottom on outside and its easy to notice the diesel..hehe. I was idiot really.
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Old 6th December 2010, 18:08   #17
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Hi rainhard ,
Nice and long review.Any plans for alloys ?
I love that naw VISTA logo.
Drive safe.
Regards
Sreehari
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Old 7th December 2010, 15:41   #18
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Guys, busy schedule in office is not letting me good chances of camerawork. Here are a couple meanwhile, which I made with the mobile camera. And now I hate my handset. Will swap the cards tonight and revert to my good old K750i.

The Twins! - The one on left of the frame is Ajit's Vista. This is the car that spurred me on to get one for me sooner...The one on right is my ride.
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The console at night. Its a feast for the eyes. I'll replace these with new better pics with my Canon EOS soon. Promise...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shk 8896 View Post
Hi rainhard ,
Nice and long review.Any plans for alloys ?
I love that naw VISTA logo.
Drive safe.
Regards
Sreehari
Hey SHK, thanks. Plans for alloys are on the cards, but not so soon. I actually messed things up due to the horrible process in getting my Vista delivered. I would have preferred changing to better wheels right after delivery. But couldn't do so. Now I'm not sure as to how much I'll get for the existing wheels since I've used them for ~1800 kms. I'm also interested in upsizing while getting the alloys. I know the Vista's wells are same as that on the Manza and thus compatible with R15s. Lets see when Vitamin M is in better supply

Last edited by Jaggu : 7th December 2010 at 15:59. Reason: Back to back post, please EDIT the original post instead. Thanks
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Old 8th December 2010, 11:21   #19
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Default Re: Indica Vista DT4 QJD Aura ABS - Drive it to believe it!!

Saw two cars with T-BHP stickers on today. Feels nice to have buddies on the road! One was a red hot Punto. The other is a very new Ford Figo TDCi TITANIUM. Saw this one right in front of me, entering the Hinjewadi Phase 3 IT Park campus of Tech Mahindra. So There are T-Bhpians with me in my office as well. Good . Ordering my sticker set in a day or 2. Let's see how the foreign currency purchase works out.
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Old 8th December 2010, 15:32   #20
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Default Re: Indica Vista DT4 QJD Aura ABS - Drive it to believe it!!

Congrats Reinhard on the purchase. I have the exact same color Vista. Aura ABS is indeed packed with features. Enjoy your ride
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Old 8th December 2010, 16:42   #21
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Default F.E., 1st Service and other little points...

Hey guys, another few of the points I missed in the main review post -
The Remote for the music system. I don't quite know whether it should be a part of the pros or the cons to be frank. Yes there is a remote with the HU and has seek, FW/RW, volume, SRC controls. But, its microscopic!! The remote is so small that if kept with the control surface down, it will look like a small mobile battery! And it doesn't have any menu controls on it.

Doors auto-lock at about 15km speed, which is excellent. Driver door lock is master and controls all other door locks along. Individual doors can be locked and unlocked overriding the master. Rear doors have manual child locks.

Power windows do not have auto up/down or anti pinch. Driver has a master lock & control for all power windows.

Before we walk to the service experience, the Fuel Efficiency as I promised. All numbers are with around 50% AC at half cool setting (It chills at that. The AC has been changed since the older Vista for sure). Have done 3 tank-full to tank-full tests. And the minimum I got was 21kmpl. This was when I went to Murud in Konkan, and simply couldn't get her in higher gears due to the bad roads.

Otherwise, the FE is 23-25 kmpl right from the beginning. It is exceptional given these are numbers are before 1000kms/1st service. I hope some of it goes to my sedate driving style as mentioned earlier. Daily running is exactly 50kms 2 way for office. 15 of these are b2b traffic through Kothrud and Hinjewadi (most Pune IT guys will wince at that thought). Rest is on NH4 bypass highway where I can cruise at around 80. Its so good that my friends thought I was exaggerating to show my car to be great! The engine is really tuned to perfection in my case I must say. When I handed her over for service I clearly mentioned (Ordered would be the right word here) the SA not to touch any engine parameters or try to "tune up". Didn't want to ruin the setup. He agreed and mentioned it on the job card. And seems they really didn't touch it. After service tank-full is still running. I've done some 300kms now and the needle hasn't yet reached the 3/4 full mark yet!! So good FE on its way again...

The 1st Service
I’ve been driving a Maruti for last 4 years. So the “Getting your car into service” part has always been butter smooth. I always got appointments at my convenient days, super soft spoken attendants and executives. This time around, I expected it to be a bit rough, and it was. Mainly since 2 major TASS dealerships have pulled shutters in Pune, Pandit Auto is the primary dealer cum service left. I casually called up to book an appointment when the odo read 1416 kms. I was paralyzed when the CSR informed me that I could bring the car for service after about 20 days since all appointments were booked. Okay this is not all that bad. They are taking very limited cars a day so as not to rush through the work. They gave me the number for the 2nd service station they have – at Satara Road. I called up there and already the executive sounded very rough and arrogant. I just asked whether I could continue driving now or whether I should keep the car parked since it had already reached 1416 kms. The lady on the other side got really pissed at this question. I don’t know why! In Marathi-Hindi-English, she said “how can you ask that to us?? Don’t know you the service is at 1000k? We give a grace over that and still you are asking if you can continue driving?? I won’t answer that. If you drive now, your 1st service will be void and we’ll use your 2nd coupon.” I was actually laughing on the other side and letting the lady continue I generally feel its no use teaching these people that the 1st service is 1000 to 1500 kms etc. So I asked whether doing that will void the warranty as well? “Sir I cannot answer that”. LOL! So I anyway told her to book an appointment for the available date. She sounded as if being forced to do this role. “Name??” “car??” “Number??”, “Mobile number??” and she was so not bothered about it at all, that she moved to next details when I had told only 8 digits of my mobile number! I politely asked to speak with her supervisor for some explanations. She got very pissed at that as well.

So I told her to forget about the appointment, and called up the Tata CRO liaison with Pandit Auto.She apologized and also confirmed about the rush at service center. But she did tell that Pandit Auto has 1 more service center in Pune. – the biggest of the 3 at Sahakar Nagar, besides the Shahu College grounds. And it was possible to get an appointment at Sahakar Nagar after 5 days and gave the contact details. I thanked the lady and called them up. The booking experience there was very good. CS staff well trained and professional. They booked an appointment and also told me to continue using the car without worrying about the running. Nevertheless, I kept her parked. Just moved her twice over 5 days to keep everything in order.

Went to the Shahu College workshop and got plenty indirect "traffic safety messages". Right at the entrance, there are literally piles of accident damaged cars that have come for repairs! I was just glad to see that there were not many where the impact had penetrated or destroyed the cabin. This facility is full fledged with express bays, body shop, paint line etc. The security staff joined hands, bowed a bit, and greeted with a “Namaste sir!” and smile. Definitely better than my Maruti experiences so far.

Anyway – taking the car into service was fast. The CSA – Aneesh Desai is a real professional. Explained the off center steering, lose windscreen grab strip problems to him. I ordered for –
  • 3M paint protection
  • Anti rust coat
  • Engine protection
  • Non accessible body cavity treatment.
This was all due to psychological impacts only. Personally I don’t believe these all make much of a difference. I didn’t give any such treatment to my Omni and after 4 years, she is still gleaming and shiny (The trick being no cloth rubbing car-wash. Just water and hands).

Already I could see a huge pressure with loads of cars in for service before 9 AM. Plenty Safaris in the bunch was a pleasing sight. Many had very recent registrations. Still Aneesh was very attentive and alert. Thanks to all of you team bhpians, a lot of tips were in my mind. Things to pay attention to during service – especially from our very own Late Dr. Rajesh (TRRK)’s detailed posts. I mentioned him not to touch the engine setup. The CSA asked if I was okay with a delivery of next morning, since there was rush. I was okay with it anyway, since I couldn’t easily travel from office to the w’shop in the evening to pick her up. So agreed on a delivery at 9 AM the next morning. Got an SMS from Tata (Not Pandit Auto) that the car was ready on the same day around 4 pm. And got an sms from Aneesh on the next day around 8 am, saying I could come to take the car at 9. Pretty nice.

Reached the station before 9 and was greeted at the gate the same way. Aneesh was already delivering a Manza to its owner so requested me to wait at the waiting lounge. It is pretty good with magazines, TV (Tata Sky of course) and drinking water. If it was MUL, you’d get regular tea-coffee etc. I don’t know whether it was followed here. I was in very early and had to wait hardly for 5-10 minutes. I don’t give a damn about the tea-coffee really. When I visit a service station, it’s to get my car that’s all. With my Omni, I generally drank at least 3 coffees. The fastest I ever got my car from service was after a wait of 30-35 minutes – this was for first service. This is why they need those plush waiting rooms.

Then the CSA walked me to my car, parked in a well covered shade. (Omni used to be under open Sun.) And did she look a stunner! I had already missed her for a day, and just kept looking at her for some minutes. He showed & explained all the things that were done on the car. And as a pleasing blow, there was no need to go to our TBHP checklist in my head. They had checked all fluids, air pressures, hoses, filters etc. But simply put an “OK” on the job card. No stupid top-ups and “Supplements”. His remark was “you’ve kept your car with care sir! We didn’t have to do anything”. I didn’t have to pull a stick to beat them after checking the oil dipstick. Showed me the 3M, engine, anti rust and body cavity protection jobs done – they were really done and the engine now literally shines!! Handed over the warranty and free-followup treatment coupons for all these and explained the charges – which matched the estimates.
Total costs –
Car 1st service = INR 0/-
Combined all coatings (3M, anti rust, engine, body cavity) = INR 7000/- inclusive of VAT.

He offered for a test drive. But since he had confessed they hadn’t changed anything at all, I simply took her for a ride within the workshop campus. Some things that pleased me like never before –
  • Both issues I had were fixed well.
  • The CSA personally made sure that everything in the car was as it was when I gave the car. Checked all floor mats, boot mat, mud flaps, spare wheel etc and confirmed with me for each of them being mine. They had actually written the car number on underside of all mats and wheels.
  • The car’s interiors were in pristine condition. Even the beige was as clean as it could be. Wonder if the engineers and mechanics work in a clean room with space suites!
  • They hadn’t run the car much. Just 1 km was added in the odo, and diesel mark stayed where it was.
  • No setup was changed in the music system. Everything was just as I had left.
  • 2 tiny marks on the front bumper. No other damages to the paint or anything else.
  • Nice overall wash and cleanup job.
  • The CSA never looked towards the feedback form.
Now you guys will find these as “Expected things from service”. But this isn’t the case with me. NOM to Maruti owners, your experiences may be a lot better than mine, but compare with my MUL experiences with Chowgule for the Omni as below –
  • Horrendous billings and replacements charged. For each service, unnecessary parts were changed without asking me and I was charged for them. Suspension bushings were changed for each service, and the used ones that they gave me back, were in excellent conditions. They changed the spark plugs, coolant, transmission oils at 15k service ??!!
  • Always insisted on phony oil supplements and top-ups.
  • Could never fix the rattling, uneven tire wear or the LPG level indicator problems that I always had. For all these I wrote to MUL management, and always got well formatted letters, phone calls, and gifts ranging from shopping vouchers to Parker pens. Did I want them? Not at all. I wanted my car to be looked after well. Never did this happen.
  • Every time I had loads of oil stains, oily surfaces, grease finger marks on the interiors of my Omni after service.
  • Once the cover on driver’s head-restraint was torn and TWICE, the seat recliner lever – which is of steel – was literally broken into 2 pieces. Do they use JCB’s to work on our cars? And beyond this, they were shameless enough, to ask me pay 900 rupees for a full replacement of the recliner assembly. I was just short of punching the manager for this. Solution? They screwed the lever from someone else’s Versa/Omni in there. (How the hell do we have this as our largest selling Auto maker?)
  • Thrice, I left the Omni with ľ tank full, and received it back with the needle at the red E! Excuse being testing, engine tune-up and relative long Idle running. Two of these occasions “earned” me MUL badged Parker pen sets – which I promptly gave away. On the last one, I was so fed up that I didn’t bother complain.
  • Only once did I forget to detach my Pioneer ICE HU front panel. On getting her back, all the settings, equalizers were changed! So they entertained themselves well.
  • At least 2 new scratches on the paint every time. Okay they were never more than 2 CM long, but WHY?
  • Pathetic washing quality. Almost no underbody wash. I complained twice for this and have “Complimentary free wash” coupons now at home. I’m no nut to use them.
  • The biggest joke. Even after frankly telling “This CSA is an idiot and doesn’t know anything about your cars” I always used to get the same one and then had to fight for a change. Many blokes at Chowgule’s would actually be shameless enough to hand you the feedback form, grin saying “Sir, 10/10 please” and ask it back!!!
Other user’s experiences may be a lot different and better with MUL. May be being an Omni driver, they didn’t expect me to know more than their engineers or I wasn’t entitled to good service at all.

So even if the “Customer service” voice & accents training to the Tata staff was poorer compared to MUL, the actual car service was A+ to MUL’s “Z” in my records. No Offense meant to MUL. Yes MUL has an unmatched service network, anywhere availability and all. But in my experience not all are very genuine or realistic about your car’s requirements and expenses. You have to be on the lookout and with a stick to question them always. They’ll try to extract some more money out of you for unnecessary replacements, since we are always worried about our dear car. They are well trained on customer facing service, sweet spoken and make you feel good that’s all.
I always wanted to mention these experiences on T-BHP but was denied the permission to register when I had tried long back.

Okay back with my Vista. Have already done more than 200kms after service. Everything is fine as it was. As I mentioned earlier, the engine tuning isn’t changed and FE seems to be as it was. Will update after I reach the “E” about the exact FE I got after service with tank full method. Still no chance to shoot pictures. But sure will post them before weekend.
Mods, I think you’ll ban me some day for regular long posts…I feel like sharing all my feelings with fellow BHPians that’s all…
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Old 9th December 2010, 00:13   #22
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Default Re: Indica Vista DT4 QJD Aura ABS - Drive it to believe it!!

Hey ReinHard,
It's amazing to hear a former MUL customer praise TML the way you have, From what i've read on the other threads of this forum, I strongly beleive TATA and FIAT both are taking their A.S.S very seriously and Maruti is just riding on its success story because whether we like it or not, the swift, even after being dated for more than 5 years, still commands a 2months or more waiting period!
Very happy to hear your experience with TATA, inspires confidence in prospective customers who treat their A.S.S as a negative point.
Now if only they can do anything to turn around their nano sales!
Cheers!
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Old 9th December 2010, 11:37   #23
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Default Re: Indica Vista DT4 QJD Aura ABS - Drive it to believe it!!

Hey Raghav,
thanks and yes really hope the Nano finds a way. Its a nice little city car. Could be a good choice for everyone including students, women who want to commute comfortably within the city's small roads and alleys with a nice FE. I think Tata should reconsider the OTR price of the LX version. It has good features but its price goes threateningly close to that of the Alto 800, which is a far more comprehensive package.

As for the Swift, well the age doesn't matter! She is a real beauty of a car without doubt. Let's say she has proven her capabilities with her age. Or she has come of age! I hope the Ritz and Swift continue forever with this popularity. Its fun to watch them zipping around between the trucks on highways aggressively.
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Old 9th December 2010, 13:13   #24
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Default Re: Indica Vista DT4 QJD Aura ABS - Drive it to believe it!!

Superb writeup dude..!

Quote:
Otherwise, the FE is 23-25 kmpl right from the beginning. It is exceptional given these are numbers are before 1000kms/1st service. I hope some of it goes to my sedate driving style as mentioned earlier. Daily running is exactly 50kms 2 way for office. 15 of these are b2b traffic through Kothrud and Hinjewadi (most Pune IT guys will wince at that thought). Rest is on NH4 bypass highway where I can cruise at around 80.


Those are real good real world numbers. I take exactly the same route everyday and I get in the region of 15kmpl (best was 16kmpl) from my petrol Swift. Though I do admit I sometimes like to explore the "other side of 2000 rpm".

Quote:
Now you guys will find these as “Expected things from service”. But this isn’t the case with me. NOM to Maruti owners, your experiences may be a lot better than mine, but compare with my MUL experiences with Chowgule for the Omni as below
Well dude, either you have been lucky, or things must have really been changed in the recent times. Like you, I have had the chance to experience both Pandit and Chowgule.

We have a Tata Indigo, which we bought from Pandit Auto 6.5 years ago. Even though we have no issues with the car, it does what was expected from it, we NEVER went back to Pandit after the mandatory ones.
This service experience was the primary reason we went the Maruti way this year, when we got a Swift ZXi. And I am pleased with Chowgule so far. (except the labour charges, which seem to be on the higher side).
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Old 9th December 2010, 15:33   #25
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Default Re: Indica Vista DT4 QJD Aura ABS - Drive it to believe it!!

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Originally Posted by sajo View Post
Superb writeup dude..!


Those are real good real world numbers. I take exactly the same route everyday and I get in the region of 15kmpl (best was 16kmpl) from my petrol Swift. Though I do admit I sometimes like to explore the "other side of 2000 rpm". .....
Hey Sajo,
Glad to know you are in Kothrud! .
And 15-16kmpl on that road with a Petrol Swift (The ZXi is a meaty feature rich car!) is brilliant I'd say. My numbers are with a turbo-diesel, and make me wonder whether a petrol Swift would have been a cheaper solution now! 2000 rpm with petrol is of course pretty common. The MS Petrols are revv happy and peppy at that. Its the diesels that don't generally revv so fine.

I agree with you. I've been to Pandit in past with relatives and friends, and the Tata service attitude and customer friendliness is improving by the minute. At last, they have pulled their socks and understood they have to be upto the mark if they want to survive in this ruthless market. Now they are really looking at the passenger car business as a main arm. Earlier I think the Tatas were happy with huge numbers in their commercial vehicle sales and didn't bother much about the "janata" customers who bought their low cost cars.

If you visit the Katraj workshop of Chowgule, I'd really advice you to be very alert about the services and replacements they make. The best CS adviser I came across there was Mr. Amar Shiralkar. I'd really recommend him. He was the only adviser there who really listened to what I had to say, and was ready to accept the fact that non Maruti people can also understand how things work in cars.

Hope to bump (not literally!) into you some day on the unofficial destruction derby track from Wakad to Hinjewadi .
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Old 11th December 2010, 00:21   #26
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Default Re: Indica Vista DT4 QJD Aura ABS - Drive it to believe it!!

Congrats Reinhard. The Vista Quadrajet is one of my favourites in this segment. How is the ride quality ?
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Old 11th December 2010, 14:50   #27
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Hey Reinhard...did you took the AMC ?
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Old 11th December 2010, 16:16   #28
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Default Re: Indica Vista DT4 QJD Aura ABS - Drive it to believe it!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
The much talked about "fit & Finish" - I don't care what many people may say, it’s exceptionally good. Some of the exterior panel gaps, actually look good in some ways. We shouldn't compare an Indica which costs 3.8 to 5.5L INR with a Skoda Fabia which costs upto 7.5L for similar trim specifications. Yes there are some little plastics that can be made "better looking" but then we don't like an Indica to cost more do we? This is the optimal package that can be made.
Reinhard!!

What a POV!!

I am no longer in the cribbing list of mourners about Fit and Finish. You get what you pay for. Respect man. Deep respect!!

Note from the Team-BHP Support Team : Please take the time to use proper punctuation as per Team-BHP rules. Avoid...typing...like...this. Thanks.

Last edited by FlyingSpur : 12th December 2010 at 14:52. Reason: Fixed the quote tags. And please avoid....typing....like....this. Thanks.
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Old 13th December 2010, 10:05   #29
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Default Re: Indica Vista DT4 QJD Aura ABS - Drive it to believe it!!

Hi fellows, back from weekend.

@PPS - Thanks. The ride quality, well for the passengers, its like riding in a limo. Very comfortable due to the room and the nice suspension setup. For the pilot, its excellent. 0 Stress whatsoever. You can drive 24x7 without any fatigue at all. The only downside due to the soft suspension is, body roll. Although there is no reason to worry at all, the driver would be anxious to go and enjoy high speed cornering in the ghat sections. Otherwise, its the most comfortable and relaxed ride. Nothing to complain about. Road grip & stability is good enough with the stock GT3s with shorter side walls. But up-sizing the tires to rubber with taller side walls may worsen the body roll. Since the taller side walls will make the tires softer (and bendier) still in cornering.

@VictorSinha - No I didn't opt for the AMC. (Neither was I offered of one.) Only the 2+2 extended warranty.

@rangarx - Cool!

BTW, I did find time to give my beast a good spirited wash, and let my Canon EOS loose yesterday. Have taken plenty of snaps (although only in the parking). Will re-size them and upload in a day.

Cheers!
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Old 14th December 2010, 18:40   #30
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Default Re: Indica Vista DT4 QJD Aura ABS - Drive it to believe it!!

Gr8 write up Reinhard,

Vista with drivetech4 is an amazing car. my uncle too got it. i loved the gearshift and the power delivery on the new vista. now wonder you are getting excellent mileages. post some pics of engine coating, 3m coat and body cavity filling.
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