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Old 28th July 2012, 10:22   #181
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LithiumSunset View Post
Absolutely great work, Puneet. I think we can lay the beast to rest and simply enjoy the car the way it was built!
I got to wake up the beast now !!
Have installed a Sequential Kit in my SX4 from MASS.

Components: Complete BRC Kit + 14KG Cylinder + RC Endorsement.
From: Apra Motors, Gurgaon - MASS
Cost: 64,000
Time it took: 2 days ( 1 day for complete fitment + 3 hours the next day for calibrating and tweaking the kit )

After much thought and calculations, I simply could not afford to spend on my commuting on Petrol. And since the car will be with me for good 7 more years or so, I am not worried about the recovery of investment made etc etc

All installation was done in front of my eyes, and for 2 hours of ECU tuning I called up their guy to my home. I wanted to check the setting which switches over the car from Petrol to CNG.

The default engine temperature on which it switches over was 50D C. As per the tech, this can be reduced safely to 35D C. After making these changes, the change happens in a mere 8 seconds flat on a cold engine - on a hot engine the change happens in 3 seconds.

The only thing that I feel (Only when AC + Music System is OFF) is a small barely audible "click" sound, drop in RPM for a fraction of second and thats all. While driving you wont even notice when it converts..

Lithium can you get this temperature checked ? Maybe this can solve the mystery of .3Ltrs of Petrol for every KG of Gas !!
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Old 29th July 2012, 21:40   #182
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptaneja View Post
I got to wake up the beast now !!
Have installed a Sequential Kit in my SX4 from MASS.

Components: Complete BRC Kit + 14KG Cylinder + RC Endorsement.
From: Apra Motors, Gurgaon - MASS
Cost: 64,000
Time it took: 2 days ( 1 day for complete fitment + 3 hours the next day for calibrating and tweaking the kit )

After much thought and calculations, I simply could not afford to spend on my commuting on Petrol. And since the car will be with me for good 7 more years or so, I am not worried about the recovery of investment made etc etc

All installation was done in front of my eyes, and for 2 hours of ECU tuning I called up their guy to my home. I wanted to check the setting which switches over the car from Petrol to CNG.

The default engine temperature on which it switches over was 50D C. As per the tech, this can be reduced safely to 35D C. After making these changes, the change happens in a mere 8 seconds flat on a cold engine - on a hot engine the change happens in 3 seconds.

The only thing that I feel (Only when AC + Music System is OFF) is a small barely audible "click" sound, drop in RPM for a fraction of second and thats all. While driving you wont even notice when it converts..

Lithium can you get this temperature checked ? Maybe this can solve the mystery of .3Ltrs of Petrol for every KG of Gas !!
Great going Puneet, I am going to follow up on this piece of information. Although I've seen a significant difference in petrol consumption ever since I changed my initial warm up routine (its .12 instead of .3 liters per KG now!). But since I have noted a steady decrease in the 'kitna deti hai' figures over the last few refills, I'm thinking that I need to visit the MASS before the 20k mark.
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Old 29th July 2012, 22:07   #183
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LithiumSunset View Post
Great going Puneet, I am going to follow up on this piece of information. Although I've seen a significant difference in petrol consumption ever since I changed my initial warm up routine (its .12 instead of .3 liters per KG now!). But since I have noted a steady decrease in the 'kitna deti hai' figures over the last few refills, I'm thinking that I need to visit the MASS before the 20k mark.
Hey !
What exactly is this warm up routine ?
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Old 29th July 2012, 22:34   #184
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!

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Originally Posted by ptaneja View Post
Hey !
What exactly is this warm up routine ?
Here is the trick again..

Quote:
Originally Posted by LithiumSunset View Post
16000km Update..

Quite alarmed at the 0.3 liter of petrol that the car was consuming for every kg of CNG. I changed my driving habit a little bit. Now the morning crank of the egine starts it on petrol, I slowly take it out of the parking and turn it around to point to the main road, and before I really head out one hard rev-up switches the car to CNG mode. The couple of minutes it takes for one to do all that, the temp needle has moved a little bit, but I have noted that there is no point in revving up till it has moved!

So now I am relieved to note that the petrol consumption has dropped to 0.12 Liters per KG of CNG and the overall per KM costs have gone down by about 50 paise on account of Petrol. Probably keeping the Petrol tank always full has also helped by minimising the vapour loss.
But with your timing down to 8 seconds on a cold start, I don't think you need it!
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Old 12th August 2012, 10:55   #185
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptaneja View Post
I got to wake up the beast now !!
Have installed a Sequential Kit in my SX4 from MASS.

Components: Complete BRC Kit + 14KG Cylinder + RC Endorsement.
From: Apra Motors, Gurgaon - MASS
Cost: 64,000
Time it took: 2 days ( 1 day for complete fitment + 3 hours the next day for calibrating and tweaking the kit )

After much thought and calculations, I simply could not afford to spend on my commuting on Petrol. And since the car will be with me for good 7 more years or so, I am not worried about the recovery of investment made etc etc

All installation was done in front of my eyes, and for 2 hours of ECU tuning I called up their guy to my home. I wanted to check the setting which switches over the car from Petrol to CNG.

The default engine temperature on which it switches over was 50D C. As per the tech, this can be reduced safely to 35D C. After making these changes, the change happens in a mere 8 seconds flat on a cold engine - on a hot engine the change happens in 3 seconds.

The only thing that I feel (Only when AC + Music System is OFF) is a small barely audible "click" sound, drop in RPM for a fraction of second and thats all. While driving you wont even notice when it converts..

Lithium can you get this temperature checked ? Maybe this can solve the mystery of .3Ltrs of Petrol for every KG of Gas !!
Puneet,

How is the car running on CNG? I'm sure you must be enjoying the 'savings' and hating the queues!

So what are the figures? How many liters per kg?

I also noticed you talk about installing a 14kg cylinder? But is it the short and squat variety so that it fits in deeper in the boot?

Did you start a separate thread after your conversion? Do keep us posted.

I, on the other hand, haven't managed to find time to take the car to the MASS.

LS

Last edited by LithiumSunset : 12th August 2012 at 10:59.
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Old 13th August 2012, 10:17   #186
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LithiumSunset View Post
Puneet,

How is the car running on CNG? I'm sure you must be enjoying the 'savings' and hating the queues!

So what are the figures? How many liters per kg?

I also noticed you talk about installing a 14kg cylinder? But is it the short and squat variety so that it fits in deeper in the boot?

Did you start a separate thread after your conversion? Do keep us posted.

I, on the other hand, haven't managed to find time to take the car to the MASS.

LS
Car is running just great - absolutely NO change in pickup/idle RPM etc ...brilliant!
I'll be posting some snaps of the installation so that people get a better understanding of remaining boot space.
Petrol is still in the same spot as it was before - minimal usage as far as I can see. I am getting approx Rs.1.80/km to 2.0/km on CNG .

No, haven't started a new thread, better everything remains here in one place
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Old 13th August 2012, 15:40   #187
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!

I have also converted to CNG
I have a December 2010 purchased SX4 Zxi. Finally, after 30K kms, I decided that enough is enough. Can't bear the petrol bills any longer. I love the car, my whole family does. But it was becoming too expensive. Our use is at least 2-3 highway runs of 300kms each every month.
I inquired at number of places and checked out the threads on CNG conversion too. Finally I went with Eco Fuel Center, Ghatkoper. Though I am staying at Juhu, I decided to go with them as they are the distributors of Lovato in Mumbai. I talked to one Harshal Shah number of times and got final price of 52K for sequential kit including pick up and drop from my home. No, I didn't opt to go to the service center and oversee the fitment as I am not in Mumbai most of the time. Now all this was in July. They picked up the car on a Friday and returned it late Saturday evening. I have not been too happy with the service though, but that's another story. The bill was not delivered with the car, I got it by courier later. I had not been told initially that I would have to take car to RTO for inspection, took a few hours just to get temporary receipt for CNG. Also not told that I have to take it again to get the plate fitted. I have not yet received original RC card back from RTO. In the first run, car was not taking a good pickup and speed would just not go above 120kmph. car was also stalling just that millisecond when accelerator was pressed more. ECU warning light also was coming on now and then. I complained and Eco Fuel sent their person to check the car. They took the car to nearby service station and changed plugs and some wiring (at their cost), I had sent my driver with them. After that car has become much smoother. Pickup is not as good as petrol but I am very happy with the savings. Much more than makes up for any reduction in acceleration. However car still stalls slightly at times when engine is bit cold. Anyone else have this problem?
I am getting about 170-190kms to empty the tank. Sometimes it fills 10.2kgs and sometimes 9.5kgs at different pumps. But the savings are tremendous. I am keeping tab of total CNG costs and kms travelled and at the end of the month will also get petrol tanked up to check actual costs over 45 days.
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Old 13th August 2012, 18:36   #188
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!

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Originally Posted by ptaneja View Post
Car is running just great - absolutely NO change in pickup/idle RPM etc ...brilliant!
I'll be posting some snaps of the installation so that people get a better understanding of remaining boot space.
Petrol is still in the same spot as it was before - minimal usage as far as I can see. I am getting approx Rs.1.80/km to 2.0/km on CNG .

No, haven't started a new thread, better everything remains here in one place
Thanks for keeping 'my' thread alive! My CNG part of the fuel costs average about Rs.1.55 per KM over the past 20 odd months of ownership, though due to my changed switchover it should change marginally (for the better).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jesrani View Post
I have also converted to CNG
I have a December 2010 purchased SX4 Zxi. Finally, after 30K kms, I decided that enough is enough. Can't bear the petrol bills any longer. I love the car, my whole family does. But it was becoming too expensive. Our use is at least 2-3 highway runs of 300kms each every month.
I inquired at number of places and checked out the threads on CNG conversion too. Finally I went with Eco Fuel Center, Ghatkoper. Though I am staying at Juhu, I decided to go with them as they are the distributors of Lovato in Mumbai. I talked to one Harshal Shah number of times and got final price of 52K for sequential kit including pick up and drop from my home. No, I didn't opt to go to the service center and oversee the fitment as I am not in Mumbai most of the time. Now all this was in July. They picked up the car on a Friday and returned it late Saturday evening. I have not been too happy with the service though, but that's another story. The bill was not delivered with the car, I got it by courier later. I had not been told initially that I would have to take car to RTO for inspection, took a few hours just to get temporary receipt for CNG. Also not told that I have to take it again to get the plate fitted. I have not yet received original RC card back from RTO. In the first run, car was not taking a good pickup and speed would just not go above 120kmph. car was also stalling just that millisecond when accelerator was pressed more. ECU warning light also was coming on now and then. I complained and Eco Fuel sent their person to check the car. They took the car to nearby service station and changed plugs and some wiring (at their cost), I had sent my driver with them. After that car has become much smoother. Pickup is not as good as petrol but I am very happy with the savings. Much more than makes up for any reduction in acceleration. However car still stalls slightly at times when engine is bit cold. Anyone else have this problem?
I am getting about 170-190kms to empty the tank. Sometimes it fills 10.2kgs and sometimes 9.5kgs at different pumps. But the savings are tremendous. I am keeping tab of total CNG costs and kms travelled and at the end of the month will also get petrol tanked up to check actual costs over 45 days.
Welcome to the CNG bandwagon, jesrani. You Mumbai people enjoy a better deal on the CNG price. It works two ways, your petrol is costlier (than Delhi) and CNG is cheaper (than Delhi). The higher difference works in favor of the CNG.

Just make sure to keep the switchover time to the minimum. I have found that my car will not switchover without a rev up and will continue to be in Petrol mode even with a hot engine. For eg. you are stuck in traffic, you switch off. Then restart as it starts to move, but the going is still slow, first gear types and you forget to rev-up while cursing and negotiating the motorcycle (and other impatient) morons. You will be surprised to find the car in Petrol mode even after a few hundred meters of such travel!

You seem to have some teething problems, though. I am surprised that despite the sequential kit you are reporting a loss in power. I can safely vouch for the fact that the company fitted does not suffer from major loss in power. I'm sure Puneet will attest to that too. Have it thoroughly checked.

From your experience I think Puneet's decision to have it installed from MASS seems to be a better option. All RTO hassles were handled by them and he's had a happier experience even if the price paid was higher.

Last edited by LithiumSunset : 13th August 2012 at 18:39.
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Old 13th August 2012, 22:28   #189
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!

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Originally Posted by LithiumSunset View Post
Welcome to the CNG bandwagon, jesrani. You Mumbai people enjoy a better deal on the CNG price. It works two ways, your petrol is costlier (than Delhi) and CNG is cheaper (than Delhi). The higher difference works in favor of the CNG.

Just make sure to keep the switchover time to the minimum. I have found that my car will not switchover without a rev up and will continue to be in Petrol mode even with a hot engine. For eg. you are stuck in traffic, you switch off. Then restart as it starts to move, but the going is still slow, first gear types and you forget to rev-up while cursing and negotiating the motorcycle (and other impatient) morons. You will be surprised to find the car in Petrol mode even after a few hundred meters of such travel!

You seem to have some teething problems, though. I am surprised that despite the sequential kit you are reporting a loss in power. I can safely vouch for the fact that the company fitted does not suffer from major loss in power. I'm sure Puneet will attest to that too. Have it thoroughly checked.

From your experience I think Puneet's decision to have it installed from MASS seems to be a better option. All RTO hassles were handled by them and he's had a happier experience even if the price paid was higher.
Thanks for the reply. There is no major loss in power. In fact, on the highways the car runs very smoothly. But I have to be in the correct gear to get the best acceleration. In petrol, i would just floor the pedal and the pickup would come in a few seconds even though I may be a gear higher than required. But in CNG just a bit more calculation is required. This is not a complaint though. Once the engine is hot and running on the highway I am not having any stall but it is there slightly at times on cold engine. Do you have this in factory fitted kit or do I need to complain again? The CNG bills bring a smile to the face, especially when filling in Mumbai . I do fill up in Gujarat also @ Rs.50/kg but it is much cheaper compared to petrol.
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Old 14th August 2012, 09:17   #190
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jesrani View Post
Thanks for the reply. There is no major loss in power. In fact, on the highways the car runs very smoothly. But I have to be in the correct gear to get the best acceleration. In petrol, i would just floor the pedal and the pickup would come in a few seconds even though I may be a gear higher than required. But in CNG just a bit more calculation is required. This is not a complaint though. Once the engine is hot and running on the highway I am not having any stall but it is there slightly at times on cold engine. Do you have this in factory fitted kit or do I need to complain again? The CNG bills bring a smile to the face, especially when filling in Mumbai . I do fill up in Gujarat also @ Rs.50/kg but it is much cheaper compared to petrol.
This is strange - I have picked up the car on 3rd gear at 10kms/hr speed - that too without any major vibrations and on CNG. Paying double the amount than regular kit, and still you have to calculate before overtaking .
Maybe my kit/setup is new or what, but as far as acceleration goes, I don't see ANY difference. Can be a minor drop, but then again it's so minor that I dont even notice. Infact to test that, I hid my CNG switch with a cloth, and asked my cousin to drive - I asked him that I feel the pickup is a little sluggish ...(incidentally he owns SX4 too), on driving for couple of minutes he said that it;s all OK - identical to his car. When he came to know that it's CNG, he couldn't believe it, and leaped out at a red light to check the boot for installed cylinder !! He drove for another 20odd kms, and in the end all I could hear was "F*** Petrol, I am getting this installed!!" ...

And yes, getting all of this done from MASS at the cost of 10K extra is absolutely worth paying - many advantages -
1. this time around the RTO office is strict and they check and match the serial number of kit with the filed papers. Since the car had to be present, they arranged for pickup, got the kit verified, dropped off the car at my home along with a provisional slip that I would be getting the new RC on 30th Aug.
2. Another advantage being that this MASS is just 4kms away from my home - just in case something happens.
3. One more major advantage is of warranty - they are providing 2 years of warranty on CNG kit as compared to 1 year by others.
4. Maruti Car's warranty still remains valid.
5. They are a call away - in case you are stuck in a place in NCR without petrol and CNG is not working, give them a call and they will either fix it on spot or get it towed. I know that since the car will always have petrol, and this situation can almost never arise, but still feel safe that they can be called upon.

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Old 21st August 2012, 10:36   #191
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!

Just a quick update - traveled from Delhi > Shimla (Kufri,Chail,Fagu etc) in last one week, with the below mileage stats -

Filled up CNG at Gurgaon for 270/-
Filled up again at Bypass on NH1 for 160/- (pressure was about 240 - never seen that in Delhi - attendant said compressor was running whole night - and I filled it up at 4:30AM )
With the above CNG traveled for 290kms before switching to petrol - giving an awesome mileage of 26kms/KG of CNG (without AC) - this was with 5 adults + 1 kid + roof carrier with luggage.

As promised before, here are few snaps of CNG installation - notice the remaining boot space, CNG switch, filling/mixer point and ECU behind the battery.
Attached Thumbnails
I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!-img_9281.jpg  

I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!-img_9283.jpg  

I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!-img_9284.jpg  

I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!-img_9285.jpg  

I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!-img_9287.jpg  

I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!-img_9288.jpg  

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Old 22nd August 2012, 20:15   #192
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!

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Just a quick update - traveled from Delhi > Shimla (Kufri,Chail,Fagu etc) in last one week, with the below mileage stats -

Filled up CNG at Gurgaon for 270/-
Filled up again at Bypass on NH1 for 160/- (pressure was about 240 - never seen that in Delhi - attendant said compressor was running whole night - and I filled it up at 4:30AM )
With the above CNG traveled for 290kms before switching to petrol - giving an awesome mileage of 26kms/KG of CNG (without AC) - this was with 5 adults + 1 kid + roof carrier with luggage.

As promised before, here are few snaps of CNG installation - notice the remaining boot space, CNG switch, filling/mixer point and ECU behind the battery.

These are really good figures Puneet. On 15th August I too joined hordes of people wanting a free ride on the Yamuna Expressway. We were just two persons in the car with obviously no luggage. And I too got a FE of about 26.4 km/kg with AC. This obviously is closest to the actual CNG average because we drove about 120 km with just one break for Dhaba lunch near Jewar. I rarely went over the speed limit, and that too because one doesn't realise when you are at 120 or more on such a fantastic road. There are other stories to tell about that jaunt, but maybe some other day. So your figures with a full load of people and stuff is obviously very good. This tells me that I should visit the MASS for the check up, but I am still a little away from the required 20k mark.

BTW how is the dust cloud road just short of Fagu now? Hope it has been done.

From the photographs your boot space certainly seems larger. I have 16" from the cylinder to the edge of the beading.

Name:  Boot Open Flap Down Dim.jpg
Views: 3409
Size:  364.0 KB

And I can feel some space behind the cylinder and the seat, so theoretically even this cylinder can shift inwards to get some more where reqd. Wonder why Maruti should not pay attention to a simple detail as this?

Maybe I should visit Apra for this?
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Old 23rd August 2012, 08:05   #193
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These are really good figures Puneet. On 15th August I too joined hordes of people wanting a free ride on the Yamuna Expressway. We were just two persons in the car with obviously no luggage. And I too got a FE of about 26.4 km/kg with AC. This obviously is closest to the actual CNG average because we drove about 120 km with just one break for Dhaba lunch near Jewar. I rarely went over the speed limit, and that too because one doesn't realise when you are at 120 or more on such a fantastic road. There are other stories to tell about that jaunt, but maybe some other day. So your figures with a full load of people and stuff is obviously very good. This tells me that I should visit the MASS for the check up, but I am still a little away from the required 20k mark.

BTW how is the dust cloud road just short of Fagu now? Hope it has been done.

From the photographs your boot space certainly seems larger. I have 16" from the cylinder to the edge of the beading.

Attachment 973595

And I can feel some space behind the cylinder and the seat, so theoretically even this cylinder can shift inwards to get some more where reqd. Wonder why Maruti should not pay attention to a simple detail as this?

Maybe I should visit Apra for this?

Well my trip was not exactly from Shimla, but was rather Gurgaon > Ambala > Zeerakpur > Solan(using the new toll road,bypassing Kalka) > Chail > Kufri > Fagu > Shimla > Solan. No speed guns encountered the whole route - though I was expecting them near major townships. Anyway, I wasn't rushing through - decent 80 to 100kms/hr max.
Wish this car had cruise control with it ...can we install this from outside ?!!

I'll measure the distance from cylinder to beading and will let you know - but of course if you want to modify it then it would mean digging holes once more ? I am not sure if all this exercise would be worth gaining maybe 2"-4" ?
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Old 23rd August 2012, 22:47   #194
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Well my trip was not exactly from Shimla, but was rather Gurgaon > Ambala > Zeerakpur > Solan(using the new toll road,bypassing Kalka) > Chail > Kufri > Fagu > Shimla > Solan. No speed guns encountered the whole route - though I was expecting them near major townships. Anyway, I wasn't rushing through - decent 80 to 100kms/hr max.
Wish this car had cruise control with it ...can we install this from outside ?!!

I'll measure the distance from cylinder to beading and will let you know - but of course if you want to modify it then it would mean digging holes once more ? I am not sure if all this exercise would be worth gaining maybe 2"-4" ?
Even if you did Kufri - Fagu one could not have missed that horrible (in Oct 2011) stretch. It must have been repaired now.

And cruise control, you are pushing it!

For me 4" is a huge 25% addition over the present 16"! I'm going to explore the option. Do tell me how much it is in your car.
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Old 1st January 2013, 20:30   #195
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!

25000 update:

There was a routine service (no. 4) that got done in November when the car had crossed 20000 km. I think I got suckered into the engine oil flush scam. Actually they had already put the flush liquid in by the time they got around to tell me about it. A frantic search on the forum led me to confusing information about the need for the flush. In the end I consoled myself on reading somewhere that if one is changing from mineral to synthetic the flush is not such a bad idea.

Since this was the fourth service at the same service centre, my labour charges were free, and the overall bill came to Rs.8232.00 The coolant, brake oil and battery water was topped up. The gear and engine oil was changed along with the filters. The SX4 cannot climb the wheel alignment rig at Fairdeal Ghaziabad, so had that done at my friendly neighbourhood Authosised Service Station.

So far I have spent Rs.13865 for 20k run, maintaining a service costs about 66 paise per km. I think this looks to be reasonable and low enough.

The people at the dealership now recognise me and let me be with the car all the time.

Last edited by Rehaan : 31st January 2013 at 15:46.
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