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Old 24th December 2010, 10:00   #46
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying!(at least on Team BHP) SX4 Green Initial rev

First heads up on FE:

Driven 460km from an empty cylinder to not yet empty (still showing 1 green LED). Total gas filled to date 19.64kg.

Giving an average of 23.42 km per kg, translating into a running cost of Rs.1.18 per km.

I am overwhelmed, this exceeds expectation.. Will it get even better or have I goofed up somewhere!
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Old 24th December 2010, 10:27   #47
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying!(at least on Team BHP) SX4 Green Initial rev

Lithum Sunset

Nice way to tell a story, congratulation on your new car.

SX4 is a nice car, and I do agree the City is over priced compared to the SX4 though a better car it's not VFM, so SX4 does make more sense but somehow not to the Indian public.

Also it is known to all that Diesels make more sense value wise at kms beyond 18K per month. But some factors you don't seem to have considered for a Diesel are:
a) It invariably gives a higher effeciency figure as well (min 20%) and it is not just about the cost of diesel vs Petrol as a fuel.
b) Diesels will have a better resale - though that is not a parameter you considered as important, this extra money that you pay upfront gets returned when you sell, so is nullified almost to the extent of 75% through this itself. (say you pay 1L extra upfront you get about 75k extra when you sell compared to a petrol.)
c) Diesel have a higher torgue figure and that is really useful in city driving and while overtaking. Also this torque makes diesels more fun to drive in the sub 150 bhp categories.
d) The ingear times that you have ignored cannot actually be ignored and they matter while driving and actually a lot more than 0-100 times. The deft shift work that you planned on does not materialize and leaves one more tired.
f) Lastly you have presumed/mentioned that a diesel with 25K kms per year would not last 5 years, well infact diesel have to endure higher pressure and stress and hence the blocks are made tougher and they actually easily last 250,000 kms (10 years) today and the point you mentioned pertained to previous generation diesel from about 15 years back. Today diesel last as long as petrols if not more.

That said a green SX4 is a good car and it offers better ground clearance, lower maruti maintenance and better visibility that the competetion and that itself makes it a good buy.

Last edited by ACM : 24th December 2010 at 10:32.
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Old 24th December 2010, 11:12   #48
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying!(at least on Team BHP) SX4 Green Initial rev

Congrats LithiumSunset on your new purchase ! It is a wise and balanced decision within your budgets. Drive safe.

Few questions:
Is the CNG kit a sequential one or traditional with lambda, timer etc. ? How much additonal cost for CNG in SX4?

Tarun
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Old 24th December 2010, 11:14   #49
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying!(at least on Team BHP) SX4 Green Initial rev

Congratulations Lithium Sunset.

You heard a li'l bit of both head and heart. SX4 is a car I look up to. It seems to check most criteria boxes for me. I feel that CNG makes most sense for people who travel daily mostly to and from their office.

Before I took the plunge for the CNG Alto, I had considered many diesel options - one of them being in-house with nil acquisition costs. Used it for a while too. One fine day, felt about getting some numbers for my daily commute. Surprisingly, found that for having another primary car (read major and regular office use) - a lower TCO (total cost of ownership) car with economical fuel and a secondary car (pre-existing diesel car) with a much lesser run, I could effectively have 2 vehicles in the same fuel budget as before. Plus there are talks about freeing the prices of Diesel from the control of the government in the news. In my view, it is inevitable and bound to happen in about 2-3 years time. At that moment, the premium that is paid towards the cost of a diesel car might come down substantially!

Based on my running, I fill in CNG after about 3-4 days. With a range of about 150-180 kms per cylinder of CNG, I am happy I made the switch. Initial stages of ownership with frequent CNG station visits felt cumbersome though. These worries took a back seat once I started realizing two other valid pointers - environment and pocket friendly
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Old 24th December 2010, 12:15   #50
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying!(at least on Team BHP) SX4 Green Initial rev

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Originally Posted by ACM View Post

Also it is known to all that Diesels make more sense value wise at kms beyond 18K per month. But some factors you don't seem to have considered for a Diesel are:
a) It invariably gives a higher effeciency figure as well (min 20%) and it is not just about the cost of diesel vs Petrol as a fuel.
b) Diesels will have a better resale - though that is not a parameter you considered as important, this extra money that you pay upfront gets returned when you sell, so is nullified almost to the extent of 75% through this itself. (say you pay 1L extra upfront you get about 75k extra when you sell compared to a petrol.)
c) Diesel have a higher torgue figure and that is really useful in city driving and while overtaking. Also this torque makes diesels more fun to drive in the sub 150 bhp categories.
d) The ingear times that you have ignored cannot actually be ignored and they matter while driving and actually a lot more than 0-100 times. The deft shift work that you planned on does not materialize and leaves one more tired.
f) Lastly you have presumed/mentioned that a diesel with 25K kms per year would not last 5 years, well infact diesel have to endure higher pressure and stress and hence the blocks are made tougher and they actually easily last 250,000 kms (10 years) today and the point you mentioned pertained to previous generation diesel from about 15 years back. Today diesel last as long as petrols if not more.

That said a green SX4 is a good car and it offers better ground clearance, lower maruti maintenance and better visibility that the competetion and that itself makes it a good buy.

I own cars that run on both fuels. Our diesel cars, on average, cost us 30% more to fuelthan our CNG cars.

And while they do enjoy a slightly better resale value, there's no denying the additional maintainance they require. A modern Common Rail powerplant has very expensive injectors, glowplugs etc. and these cost alot more money to replace than their predecessors.

A CNG car like the SX4 Green, by comparison, actually costs less to maintain than the petrol due to the reduced wear on the engine mechanicals and lubricants.

The SX4 Green is the first car that can completely upstage a modern diesel when it comes to Urban use. And that's no easy feat!
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Old 24th December 2010, 12:22   #51
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying!(at least on Team BHP) SX4 Green Initial rev

hey lithiumsunset
fabulous writeup, it has got me thinking about this version now. have you checked FE in the petrol at all? perhaps there is an impact on it due to the weight of the CNG kit? of course, one would not drive on petrol with a full CNG tank, so maybe you should try this on an empty CNG tank and share the numbers.

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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
b) Diesels will have a better resale - though that is not a parameter you considered as important, this extra money that you pay upfront gets returned when you sell, so is nullified almost to the extent of 75% through this itself. (say you pay 1L extra upfront you get about 75k extra when you sell compared to a petrol.)
No doubt about the resale value, but IMHO, it should be compared with the value of the extra 1 lakh at the time of resale. so one will get 75K against 1 lakh + interest on x number of years.
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Old 24th December 2010, 14:38   #52
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying!(at least on Team BHP) SX4 Green Initial rev

congratulations. the mileage is awesome, but do you really have to fill up every week? any safety precautions you need to take while filling up. the CNG gas is highly pressurized i hear.
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Old 24th December 2010, 16:35   #53
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying!(at least on Team BHP) SX4 Green Initial rev

Quote:
Originally Posted by Screwdriva View Post
I own cars that run on both fuels. Our diesel cars, on average, cost us 30% more to fuelthan our CNG cars.

And while they do enjoy a slightly better resale value, there's no denying the additional maintainance they require. A modern Common Rail powerplant has very expensive injectors, glowplugs etc. and these cost alot more money to replace than their predecessors.

A CNG car like the SX4 Green, by comparison, actually costs less to maintain than the petrol due to the reduced wear on the engine mechanicals and lubricants.

The SX4 Green is the first car that can completely upstage a modern diesel when it comes to Urban use. And that's no easy feat!
It's a matter of how one views it, nope I don't agree but let me not hijack the thread either. A CNG car is known to have more maintenance and issue than a non CNG car, also yes the CRDI components cost more than the earlier TDI diesel ones, and that is why one pays that higher amount for the car, and also gets the higher power (bhp & torque) with small engine benifit. One actually gets what one pays for. One typically gets 3-4 years warranty now-a-days for all cars and during this period at least the injectors would be replaced in warranty, post that if the injectors did not have a manufacturing defect - which would be spotted in the first two years itself- the car is not immediately likely to develop one in a hurry just because it is new technology. The Newer diesels have not been developed to be any less reliable than the earlier ones, and the aim has always been to better the earlier life of components. The SX4 does not have the best in gear acceleration and a CNG variant will definately not help - rather the contrary. Also you would see threads and reports all around of people waiting for a SX4 Diesel, which is expected to solve all that ails it and boost the sales.

Yes the SX4 Green is a great vehicle and if and when the Diesel variant of the same comes the sales for SX4 would simply shoot up, but does Suzuki have an engine that can fit the bill?

In most cars today where there are Diesel and Petrol variants both the diesel is the one that is selling better though it is more expensive. Diesels are today not sold just for the economy of diesel fuel but also for the performance and thrill it delivers.

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Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
No doubt about the resale value, but IMHO, it should be compared with the value of the extra 1 lakh at the time of resale. so one will get 75K against 1 lakh + interest on x number of years.
Agreed on the interest bit, but then I did also mention that the usage should be 18k plus per year, plus the other benifits.
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Old 24th December 2010, 19:03   #54
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying!(at least on Team BHP) SX4 Green Initial rev

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Originally Posted by maglev View Post
Congratulations & welcome to the SX4 club.

Mine's a June 09 ZXI, The SX4 is a bit underrated but a great car nonetheless. The Bridgestone Turanza's you've got are great and I don't see any particular reason to change them. Dont and I mean dont go in for any parking sensor, I had them on mine they are absolutely useless. Instead go in for a reversing camera and please do keep in mind that the camera screen should be a separate unit and not something which snaps onto the internal rear view mirror as then you'll lose the day/night feature of the IRVM.

I got my parking sensors disconnected and everything except for the 4 sensors at the back removed as I don't have a choice but to keep them there, otherwise my bumper would have 4 holes. Do post pics and keep us updated.
Thanks Maglev, for your feedback on the Parking Sensors, but you did not elaborate on the problem. I was indeed thinking about installing one and was debating one with or without camera. Now with an actual owner suggesting otherwise, I need to know more.

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Originally Posted by musicmanaman View Post
Congrats Lithiumsunset, fantastic writeup, would love to see you cost analysis, you seem to be very much like me when in comes to cost of ownership analysis, only difference is I drive a HM Avigo and you an SX4, I too did the maths and found that I'm still more cost effective driving the Avigo, and I love the 1.8 Isuzu heart. Please keep updating this tread with pics and FE and how the ownership feels with time. In my books you have made a very informed choice, waiting for pics and CNG to be available like Delhi NCR in the rest of the country, you guys are so lucky man, in Kolkata CNG looks like a distant dream, even LPG is available at a very few outlets. Cheers !!!!.
I have to put the file up, somehow always miss doing it. Its on my office machine, and I have been a little busy last few days. Hopefully tomorrow.. Thanks for your wishes musicmanan.

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Originally Posted by sudev View Post
Lovely writing. SX4 is a very nice car that suffers from lack of marketing imagination. After doing a nice intro as a Man amongst the cars nothing more happened. Probably as the market commentary is saying they will come in with a diesel option. Not marketing but just sales.
MUL continues to focus and deliver on VFM. Anything beyond seems to be beyond them.
Its only now that a few adverts. of the 'man' are back on the telly. You are right, sudev, MS has not been pushing this car. Do they need to? They were selling close to 2000 of them every month anyways, the November dip in sales must have jolted them from the slumber...

Quote:
Originally Posted by getsriram View Post
A very honest and open report on SX4 (not biased just because you bought it)

Pics please sir ji
Thanks getsriram, you must have seen the pics by now.. I am going to post a few more of the gas filling soon.
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Old 24th December 2010, 20:17   #55
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying!(at least on Team BHP) SX4 Green Initial rev

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
A CNG car is known to have more maintenance and issue than a non CNG car
Have you owned a CNG car for a number of years? I have, and I can assure you that there is negligible additional maintainance for a well designed dealer installation.

I can only imagine that the quality of the CNG components will improve after careful testing of MUL's QC team.

The reason CNG cars are also called duel fuel vehicles is because you can flip over to Petrol anytime additional performance is required.
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Old 25th December 2010, 00:22   #56
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying!(at least on Team BHP) SX4 Green Initial rev

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Originally Posted by Screwdriva View Post
Have you owned a CNG car for a number of years? I have, and I can assure you that there is negligible additional maintainance for a well designed dealer installation.

I can only imagine that the quality of the CNG components will improve after careful testing of MUL's QC team.

The reason CNG cars are also called duel fuel vehicles is because you can flip over to Petrol anytime additional performance is required.
Screwdriva, I completely agree with you. Surprising that many still think that CNG is higher maintenance. On the contrary, it's definitely lower. I've been using CNG on my Alto since past 10 months and I can vouch for no increased maintenance costs (the engine oil does not get contaminated as often, thus it can run longer, there is reduced engine knocking which prolongs engine life, etc). There's tons of useful websites which actually give the correct picture of CNG. The only maintenance related downside is that the engine runs a wee bit hotter, hence having hardened valve seats helps. And Maruti has done exactly that. Plus the stiffer suspension also helps.

Maruti's product here is very well rounded. It's an awesome buy, especially considering the December discounts..
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Old 25th December 2010, 01:30   #57
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying!(at least on Team BHP) SX4 Green Initial rev

@LithiumSunset
congratulations!! frankly i never read any of those looong reviews full ever. but this one 've read every word of it. i enjoyed it and it also has a lot of logic/common sense in it. keep it up. i would be looking forward to your ownership reviews
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Old 25th December 2010, 10:11   #58
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying!(at least on Team BHP) SX4 Green Initial rev

Quote:
Originally Posted by LithiumSunset View Post
First heads up on FE:.. Will it get even better or have I goofed up somewhere!
Doesn't look like a goof up, I filled when the led had gone into red this time, but not completely empty..
I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!-24122010.jpg

So 478.6 km / 19.64kg is 24.37 kmpkg, all in city driving. This is with a little bit of help from the yet unaccounted for petrol. What I plan to do is to take the petrol down to empty, while using the gas, this way one can calculate the total cost per km, but looking at the way that petrol gauge remains deliciously full (it has dipped by a notch now), that day seems a little far away!
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Old 25th December 2010, 20:20   #59
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying!(at least on Team BHP) SX4 Green Initial rev

Quote:
Originally Posted by khoj View Post
I said it before and I will say it again, Blue in any shade is a beautiful colour. Neat installation of the CNG kit by Maruti, shame about the gas filling though it should have been like the Wagon R. Another thing I would like to see is the auto air con at-least as an option on the CNG variant.
Khoj, a few more kind friends endorsed my color choice like you. However would you believe it if I told you that my son declared it as a shade preferred by people with different s***** orientation and therefore it is automatically disqualified by those who tread the straight path! With no offenses meant to anyone, as parents we did let out a silent sigh of relief...

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Originally Posted by raghu230506 View Post
Congratulations on Green SX4.

Iam surprised to see the valve under the hood, every refill we need to lift the bonnet is bit uncomfortable.

Is there any specific reason for this design? Probably it's to avoid tampering valve
I think if the CNG Wagon R can have it, so can the SX4. So, it is a bother to lift the bonnet every-time, although this is done for free by the vend attendant. I am more concerned about the fact that soon enough I am going to find scratches where the hose touches the paintwork, and that is one thing we must keep risking regularly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by getsriram View Post
Hey, very nice pics. Refilling is going to be a bit uncomfortable i guess... but positive side, the car doesnt reveal if it is a green version or a normal version from the outside.

What about the fog lamps. Maruti gives its fog lamp switches in the third button where CNG option is provided. So I believe fog lamps are not standard in your car and you need to find a place to put the switch if you install a fog lamp. Am i right?
Are there cars that reveal that they run on CNG? Mine has a square green sticker on the windshield, if someone is looking. You are right about the fog lamp switch, need to ask the dealer about this.

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Originally Posted by sidindica View Post
Congrats on your car with a superb write up! Which dealer is it? Fair deal Noida? The quality of installation is top class. factory fit, after all is factory fit.
Sid, I am sure you know all the car dealers inside and out, this side of town. Yes this is indeed Fairdeal Noida.

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
Cool write up dude, and congrats on the car! It is good hear that city driving isnt difficult, especially turning. How do you find the much maligned ride quality?
Have you heard the term 'bandar kya jaane adrakh ka swad'? I think it is applicable in my case about many things that aficionados look for in a car. Since I have been driving the Waggie all these years, the ride is certainly much better. But honestly I do not have anything else to compare it too, yet at the same time whenever I sit in other sedans I don't feel I am missing much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Screwdriva View Post
The car looks great! As a CNG user for the past 4.5 years, I can now say that my 1.6L Optra CNG has been surpassed....finally!

The integration of the CNG components look top class. This is the natural benefit of a factory installation, something that other manufacturers should pay attention to.

I just did the calculations yesterday based on my usage of 1000 kms a month. Expect to save more than 2 Lacs on petrol savings over the next 4 years of ownership.

BTW, the sound you hear is the engine adjusting to the difference in octane and composition of CNG. It will fade as your engine components wear into a stage of harmony with the gaseous fuel.

Again, congrats on one of the smartest buys this year!
Nice to know that the sound will get better. At this moment, it does intrude into the cabin. Oh, I think I am going to enjoy doing that calculation regularly.
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Old 25th December 2010, 22:03   #60
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying!(at least on Team BHP) SX4 Green Initial rev

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
Lithum Sunset

Nice way to tell a story, congratulation on your new car.

SX4 is a nice car, and I do agree the City is over priced compared to the SX4 though a better car it's not VFM, so SX4 does make more sense but somehow not to the Indian public.

Also it is known to all that Diesels make more sense value wise at kms beyond 18K per month. But some factors you don't seem to have considered for a Diesel are:
a) It invariably gives a higher effeciency figure as well (min 20%) and it is not just about the cost of diesel vs Petrol as a fuel.
b) Diesels will have a better resale - though that is not a parameter you considered as important, this extra money that you pay upfront gets returned when you sell, so is nullified almost to the extent of 75% through this itself. (say you pay 1L extra upfront you get about 75k extra when you sell compared to a petrol.)
c) Diesel have a higher torgue figure and that is really useful in city driving and while overtaking. Also this torque makes diesels more fun to drive in the sub 150 bhp categories.
d) The ingear times that you have ignored cannot actually be ignored and they matter while driving and actually a lot more than 0-100 times. The deft shift work that you planned on does not materialize and leaves one more tired.
f) Lastly you have presumed/mentioned that a diesel with 25K kms per year would not last 5 years, well infact diesel have to endure higher pressure and stress and hence the blocks are made tougher and they actually easily last 250,000 kms (10 years) today and the point you mentioned pertained to previous generation diesel from about 15 years back. Today diesel last as long as petrols if not more.

That said a green SX4 is a good car and it offers better ground clearance, lower maruti maintenance and better visibility that the competetion and that itself makes it a good buy.
You had to come burst the bubble did you? That in gear thing is something I will know only when I drive the other cars in contention. From the Waggie, its miles better anyway. The torque is indeed heady, but for my usual city runs my diesel test drives actually told me otherwise, maybe its me, I am completely new to diesels. The engines may well last 250k, but there would be other things that would break down. I for one know that I am not doing that much running in ten years, so the calculations were purely based on the annual 12k runs that I am doing for the past ten years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarun View Post
Congrats LithiumSunset on your new purchase ! It is a wise and balanced decision within your budgets. Drive safe.

Few questions:
Is the CNG kit a sequential one or traditional with lambda, timer etc. ? How much additonal cost for CNG in SX4?

Tarun
The kit is sequential, but there is no specific mention of this in any literature given by MS. The CNG version sells for about 60k more than the petrol Vxi variant. There is no other trim available in CNG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by indianv2 View Post
Congratulations Lithium Sunset.

You heard a li'l bit of both head and heart. SX4 is a car I look up to. It seems to check most criteria boxes for me. I feel that CNG makes most sense for people who travel daily mostly to and from their office.

Before I took the plunge for the CNG Alto, I had considered many diesel options - one of them being in-house with nil acquisition costs. Used it for a while too. One fine day, felt about getting some numbers for my daily commute. Surprisingly, found that for having another primary car (read major and regular office use) - a lower TCO (total cost of ownership) car with economical fuel and a secondary car (pre-existing diesel car) with a much lesser run, I could effectively have 2 vehicles in the same fuel budget as before. Plus there are talks about freeing the prices of Diesel from the control of the government in the news. In my view, it is inevitable and bound to happen in about 2-3 years time. At that moment, the premium that is paid towards the cost of a diesel car might come down substantially!

Based on my running, I fill in CNG after about 3-4 days. With a range of about 150-180 kms per cylinder of CNG, I am happy I made the switch. Initial stages of ownership with frequent CNG station visits felt cumbersome though. These worries took a back seat once I started realizing two other valid pointers - environment and pocket friendly
At an expected 14kmpl on petrol a normal tankful would have lasted me about 550km which means filling every 15 days. A full gas refill, if I get one, at 22.5+ kmpkg should last me at least 270km, which should be a weekly visit to the gas vend. However in practice, I too am seen at the gas station every 3 to 4 days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Screwdriva View Post
I own cars that run on both fuels. Our diesel cars, on average, cost us 30% more to fuelthan our CNG cars.

And while they do enjoy a slightly better resale value, there's no denying the additional maintainance they require. A modern Common Rail powerplant has very expensive injectors, glowplugs etc. and these cost alot more money to replace than their predecessors.

A CNG car like the SX4 Green, by comparison, actually costs less to maintain than the petrol due to the reduced wear on the engine mechanicals and lubricants.

The SX4 Green is the first car that can completely upstage a modern diesel when it comes to Urban use. And that's no easy feat!
These are indeed heart warming words. What I have bargained for is a reasonably good engine that is very light on the wallet.

No idea about an OEM CNG cars resale value, but my guess is that it should depreciate normally, though aftermarket fitted cars do get lesser value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
hey lithiumsunset
fabulous writeup, it has got me thinking about this version now. have you checked FE in the petrol at all? perhaps there is an impact on it due to the weight of the CNG kit? of course, one would not drive on petrol with a full CNG tank, so maybe you should try this on an empty CNG tank and share the numbers....
Its selling very well, I am informed by the dealerships. In November I was told that the delivery is very much instant, however by the time I actually booked the car, the delivery time went up to four weeks. Its quite possible that the number of CNG SX4s being made are limited. Its a Delhi centric variant after all.

I will certainly try the petrol FE, once. But honestly its hard to ignore the empty gas cylinder warning!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caramelo View Post
congratulations. the mileage is awesome, but do you really have to fill up every week? any safety precautions you need to take while filling up. the CNG gas is highly pressurized i hear.
As mentioned above, I have to fill up every 3-4 days, but that is because the vends do not have adequate pressure, ever. There are no safety concerns, I am told, other than to watch for any leaks, though how one gets to know the leak, I am not aware of. However CNG being lighter than air does not pose the same hazard as LPG. Passengers are asked to alight from the car and move away at the vend at the time of the filling.
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