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Old 29th April 2011, 20:53   #106
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!

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Originally Posted by gavinimurthy View Post
To me it looks like the water jet precedes the wiper movement by a few seconds. I am using the wiper with the water jet quite often and there are absolutely no scratches/sleeks on the wind shield.

However the 'independent' spray option will definitely give us more peace of mind.

Murthy
My SX4 did had the issue of wiper moves before the spray.It was reported to MASS and they fixed in the first service.
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Old 8th June 2011, 10:59   #107
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Thumbs up Re: ... and another eye opener...

Hello LithiumSunset,

Firstly congratulations for your buy and for the great story on the decision making process. You are a great story writer (in this case your experience) as rightly mentioned by fellow BHPians.

Quote:
The principal question is: why do we want to know the FE?
The answer is: to find the running cost per KM.

Both of the above calculations give me the same figure and that remains unchanged at Rs.1.95 per KM, which you will recall, if you really suffered through my entire write up, is only a part of the TCO (Total Cost of Ownership).
If you just wanted to get the expense per km, then your first method is best. It is simple. IMO it is more important to know the total expense per KM than the FE for petrol/ CNG. I am too confused with your calculations, this could be the hangover of your spreadsheet dose I had yesterday at 01:30 AM !!!!
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Old 10th June 2011, 20:17   #108
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Hello LithiumSunset,

Firstly congratulations for your buy and for the great story on the decision making process. You are a great story writer (in this case your experience) as rightly mentioned by fellow BHPians.

If you just wanted to get the expense per km, then your first method is best. It is simple. IMO it is more important to know the total expense per KM than the FE for petrol/ CNG. I am too confused with your calculations, this could be the hangover of your spreadsheet dose I had yesterday at 01:30 AM !!!!
Thanks for looking, Jakku. Hope the Excel hangover has passed over.

I did manage a small Delhi - Jaipur - Ajmer - Delhi trip recently. It was indeed a pleasure taking her out on the highway. A CNG fill of about 7kg lasted about 180km giving a pure CNG mileage of 25.7 km, but this could be inaccurate. I was not able to get a tank -up on my way out so the 7kg is a guess. The petrol mileage is a little more accurate. I filled 20.4 litres of petrol from the tankful for a petrol run of about 260km giving an average of 12.75 km/litre. I don't know if this is good or bad, but I had expected more.

The Delhi - Jaipur road is a mess with umpteen diversions and at least two or three bottlenecks at Behror, Kothputli and I think one more before Jaipur bye-pass. I left at about 5:30 am and was in Jaipur at about 10:30. Had some work in Jaipur and was on my way to Ajmer at about 2:00 pm after a good meal at Niros.

This leg I was alone (and honestly, happy, enjoying my kind of music without any one cribbing!) Jaipur-Ajmer is an excellent 6 lane expressway till you are about 20km from Ajmer where the six laning is still incomplete, but I was at my destination at 3:45. While I rarely touched 100kmph till Jaipur, spurts up to 130 were easily doable on the latter leg. I marvelled the nerves of a few drivers who were doing such speeds for very long stretches. I find myself most comfortable between 90-100, which is what I maintained when I could. The car seemed very steady all along and I felt safe during the ride.

The outside temp gauge read 43 deg C in the afternoon but the AC held up, it was not chilly but I did not need to raise the fan speed beyond 2.

I had a pleasant experience at one of the toll gates. I rolled my window down and handed him a 100 rupee note, the attendant asked me if I was coming from Delhi (he had read my no. plate), I said yes. He then said 'then you must have the last toll ticket'. He took it from me and scanned it and handed it back along with my 100 rupee note. I gave him a wide grinned thank you. Small things like these do make your day, sometimes. But this made me suspicious? Are such there more such toll waivers on this route? I paid Rs.291.00 on my return leg in total.

The return journey was done the next day and we (yes, wife had joined me) we did it practically non-stop starting at about 3:45pm and reaching home at 12:45am, with a short half hour toilet stop at Behror. The Behror facility is not the same anymore. The food joint offers meagre choices. So we skipped dinner altogether, relying solely on the snacks we had bought earlier.

But this return trip I did two tests. A Zero to 100 in 9.93 seconds (am I right?) and a painfully slow 20-80 in-third-gear in, hold your breath, 18 seconds! Actually I see no point in driving like this, but I did this just to confirm the worst. Smartcat, are you reading in? I wish I had done this on my way out, because then It would have given us comparable numbers on CNG. (Reminder to self: Next time)

On my return I had completed 5350 km and took the car to the dealer for the second free service. There were no issues to report other than the delayed spray from the wind-shield nozzles, which promptly behaved themselves in front of the mechanic. He simply explained it away by saying that 'this will happen when the water level is low'. I'll live with it I guess. But the bigger surprise was that the free service turned out to be really free, the invoice I got was for Rs.0.00, yay!!

On that happy note, cheers and drive safe everyone.
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Old 12th July 2011, 22:40   #109
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!

Hi All, as we are discussing SX4 and CNG, i wish to ask my question here. i have bought a SX4 (Automatic Transmission) Petrol. I have clocked more than 3K Kms so far and the FE is simply 8.5 KMPL. On highways, i get marginally more than 10KMPL. Now, you might understand where i am coming from - fitting a CNG kit in my car..

reading the experiences here (ofcourse with a factory fitted CNG SX4), i get more confidence to think about it. even if i get 16 - 18 KM/ Kg, it would be a drastic saving in long run.

What say, SX4 owners? Do you think it would be good? Note: The warranty of the car will be partially void (meaning engine related issues will not be covered under warranty).
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Old 12th July 2011, 23:14   #110
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!

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Originally Posted by vishsharma View Post
Hi All, as we are discussing SX4 and CNG, i wish to ask my question here. i have bought a SX4 (Automatic Transmission) Petrol. I have clocked more than 3K Kms so far and the FE is simply 8.5 KMPL. On highways, i get marginally more than 10KMPL. Now, you might understand where i am coming from - fitting a CNG kit in my car..

reading the experiences here (ofcourse with a factory fitted CNG SX4), i get more confidence to think about it. even if i get 16 - 18 KM/ Kg, it would be a drastic saving in long run.

What say, SX4 owners? Do you think it would be good? Note: The warranty of the car will be partially void (meaning engine related issues will not be covered under warranty).
You may also want to have a look at this thread.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...nsmission.html
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Old 13th July 2011, 19:50   #111
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!

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Originally Posted by vishsharma View Post
Hi All, as we are discussing SX4 and CNG, i wish to ask my question here. i have bought a SX4 (Automatic Transmission) Petrol. I have clocked more than 3K Kms so far and the FE is simply 8.5 KMPL. On highways, i get marginally more than 10KMPL. Now, you might understand where i am coming from - fitting a CNG kit in my car..

reading the experiences here (ofcourse with a factory fitted CNG SX4), i get more confidence to think about it. even if i get 16 - 18 KM/ Kg, it would be a drastic saving in long run.

What say, SX4 owners? Do you think it would be good? Note: The warranty of the car will be partially void (meaning engine related issues will not be covered under warranty).
Vish: That mileage seems a bit low. Most are getting at least 11.5 or more. Or is it because of your SX4 being an automatic?

CNG does save a lot of money, particularly in light of the steady increase in petrol prices over the past few months. But all of this comes for a price and that is spending a good 15 to 30 minutes every two or three days to get a partial tankful. (I just checked, in the 220 days of my owning the green car I have visited the CNG station 46 times, so it means I am at the station every 4.78 days, really, why does it feel like every-other-day?) BUT, hold your breath, I have been to a petrol station only FIVE times!! Of which two times were during an out of town trip.

I was very clear that I wanted a company fitted kit, I am little more wary of the warranty stuff. However, with an after market kit you may be better off at the gas station, because not all vending machines are fitted with the NGV. An NGV fitted car can only go to this type of machine but others with a normal (older type) nozzle can fill at any machine. So in theory NGV may be more efficient or safe(?) but in practice I wish mine did not have it!

The overall current cost per km including both CNG and petrol for me is Rs.2.30 per KM. My run has been about 31km/day. So if your run is more, you will save more, but you will also visit the CNG station that much more. My earlier estimate of Rs.1.95 was just that, an estimate. The major jumps in the petrol price, the minor, but regular (and less protested), increase of CNG prices and a 600km out of town petrol only trip has corrected the figure. (As per my record petrol inflation has been about 24% and CNG at about 9% in Delhi, so my excel file is going to show more green for the green car). The car seems to give an CNG average of about 24kmpkg but when you factor in the petrol used on the sly, the actual average is lower, as I have elaborated elsewhere. So in my opinion if you are aiming for a virtual average of 16-18, your combined (actual) average will be (much) lower, so you should evaluate the cost of the kit and the savings..

Oh, one more thing, the CNG option is for the city drive only, unless your out of town trips are less than 200 km overall.

I know this does not answer your immediate question about a CNG kit for an automatic, but the other 'gyan', you can use, I'm sure.
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Old 13th July 2011, 20:18   #112
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!

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Originally Posted by LithiumSunset View Post
The overall current cost per km including both CNG and petrol for me is Rs.2.30 per KM.
Considering Rs 68 / liter pertrol price, my current running is coming to be around Rs 8 per KM. Comparing it with 2.3, which you are quoting, and adding the automatic trasmission factor, i would imagine something around Rs 3.5 / Km for my car. this still would be a substantial saving. so, i am still thumbsup.

now, the next question: The CNG kit, which is used in Maruti SX4 is again an external fitment. so i can safely assume that Maruti has connected to some vendors, who fit this kit in their vehicles. had maruti been making / designing these kits for their cars, they wouldn't give the fuel nozzle under the bonnet. so, does anyone know, which kit is this and can existing owners get the same kit from the same people. (ps: i spoke to one big CNG fitting shop here in Pune and he said Maruti has no experience / facilities to repair CNG kits, so they send the cars that come for service to them for repair).

second question: is there a list available somewhere, which tells me the CNG pumps in India?
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Old 14th July 2011, 10:18   #113
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!

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Originally Posted by vishsharma View Post
.. The CNG kit, which is used in Maruti SX4 is again an external fitment. so i can safely assume that Maruti has connected to some vendors, who fit this kit in their vehicles. had maruti been making / designing these kits for their cars, they wouldn't give the fuel nozzle under the bonnet.
The CNG Wagon R has its nozzle next to the petrol inlet and that is so neat. If it was possible in the waggie then why not SX4?
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Old 14th July 2011, 13:48   #114
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!

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Originally Posted by vishsharma View Post
Considering Rs 68 / liter pertrol price, my current running is coming to be around Rs 8 per KM. Comparing it with 2.3, which you are quoting, and adding the automatic trasmission factor, i would imagine something around Rs 3.5 / Km for my car. this still would be a substantial saving. so, i am still thumbsup.

now, the next question: The CNG kit, which is used in Maruti SX4 is again an external fitment. so i can safely assume that Maruti has connected to some vendors, who fit this kit in their vehicles. had maruti been making / designing these kits for their cars, they wouldn't give the fuel nozzle under the bonnet. so, does anyone know, which kit is this and can existing owners get the same kit from the same people. (ps: i spoke to one big CNG fitting shop here in Pune and he said Maruti has no experience / facilities to repair CNG kits, so they send the cars that come for service to them for repair).

second question: is there a list available somewhere, which tells me the CNG pumps in India?
You will definitely get better figures kmpkg of CNG vis-a-vis the kmpl of the car you are driving. IMO you can easily get the 1.5 times of your petrol mileage, so cost would be actually be around Rs.2/ km for your SX4. I get around 20-22 kmpkg for my Santro Xing in Delhi (peak traffic hours).

Regarding your question on which CNG kit to use & loss of warranty because of getting the same fitted from other than authorised dealer, I suggest you go though the technical discussions section.
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Old 14th July 2011, 15:05   #115
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!

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Originally Posted by S5157 View Post
My SX4 did had the issue of wiper moves before the spray.It was reported to MASS and they fixed in the first service.

Do you know what did they do to fix it ? I have same issue.
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Old 14th July 2011, 16:52   #116
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!

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Do you know what did they do to fix it ? I have same issue.
I dont think there is a way to fix this other than to keep your water topped up regularly. I often add a teaspoon or so of pril dish-washing liquid to during this top up, helps clean the wind shield a lot better than the hard water we get in our taps.

The other irritant is the turn indicator, it doesn't come back on its own on gentle turns. One must remember to nudge it back or suffer a helpful (sometimes angry) soul frantically gesticulating about something till you realise its you who caused him this grief!
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Old 19th July 2011, 09:50   #117
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!

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Originally Posted by vishsharma View Post
second question: is there a list available somewhere, which tells me the CNG pumps in India?
I cant help you with the kit, but this is what I found for cng pumps in India:

Cng filling stations (or pumps) in India

CNG pumps in India - India Travel Forum, BCMTouring
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Old 21st July 2011, 19:40   #118
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I found something interesting at the MS dealership yesterday. SX4 now comes with side indicators on ORVMs...

I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!-20072011003.jpg

BUT just look at the tacky job of getting the power to that fitting!

I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!-20072011001.jpg

It wouldn't take anything for a curious (or not) miscreant to yank the wire off!

I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!-20072011004.jpg

another angle

I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!-20072011002.jpg

Meanwhile at 7000 km and going, I was thinking I was lucky to have not joined several bhpians reporting early and regular rattles on their SX4s. But that was not to be! There was an unmistakable rattle everytime I went over a speed bump/ rumbler.

Then I noticed that someone had brushed past my parked car. A small but visible scratch on the wheel cap and missing paint on the bumper were tell tale evidence. Closer inspection of the bumper revealed a missing cap (for want of a better word) where the left fog can be fit!

I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!-16072011.jpg

I couldn't quite understand how this could have happened. I pushed my hand into the cavity, (it felt like the 'Roman Holiday' scene where Gregory Peck puts his arm inside some hole in a wall and fakes someone grabbing his hand, much to the consternation of Audrey Hepburn...). Alas there was no damsel to fool around with, but surprise - surprise, I found the cap inside the bumper cavity.

I tried putting it back, but couldn't and so the visit to the dealership. Thankfully the technician fixed it within minutes.

I then enquired about installing fog lamps, which, I was told, would cost Rs.3850.0. But I asked where would they install the switch, now that all the slots on the right side have been taken up by the alarm, cng and headlight adjustment.

I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!-01012011003.jpg

The CNG variant gets has this problem, so the solution offered is to remove the 'Alarm' switch instead. Do you recommend it?

Or should I forgo the fog lamps because I bought a car no one is buying?

(Sorry about the grainy pictures, my phone camera is pathetic)

Last edited by Rehaan : 26th July 2011 at 13:04.
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Old 21st July 2011, 20:16   #119
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!

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Or should I forgo the fog lamps because I bought a car no one is buying?
LithiumSunset,

The fog lamp switch is connected to the parking lights hence they get activated when the parking lights are turned on after which you can switch them off if yo want by using the fog lamp switch that ur having issues installing.

I have never touched the fog lamp switch even once since the install as the lamps turn on the moment the parking lights are switched on which serves the purpose.

So why dont you get the switch installed and leave it behind the dashboard with the rest of the wiring ? or in case you need it anyways then it can be fitted on the hard fibre/plastic on the lower section below the switches by cutting the required size into the fibre provided the wires provided behind the dashboard are reacheable.
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Old 22nd July 2011, 20:06   #120
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Default Re: I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!

Thanks Peter, I think you have given me a good idea of what to do.
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